StudEbiker's E-Bike-E build- ride vid pg. 7.

[StudEbiker]

Well, I had some time today to play around with getting the plates mounted and I am happy to say that things went well today! I am never comfortable drilling into frames and I knew I only had one shot to get this right so I went extra careful and sloooooooow and tripled checked everything and was as careful as I could be. It paid off.

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Then to fit the plates and see how things are looking. It's really starting to look like the idea I had in my head. I am very happy to see this project finally coming together.

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I could do a little more today, but I think I'm going call it a day. Clean my place up and enjoy the awesome weather we're having.

[StudEbiker]

I am still just test fitting everything, but it's starting to come together and look like something. I have a question though. What is the best way for pressing the shaft into the bearings?? I have put the shaft in the freezer hoping that will make it a little easier. I hope I don't have to, but I may need to take the shaft out and put it back in before I get everything right so once I take it out of the freezer it will warm up quick...then how do I move it around in the bearings??

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[etard]

Shocking sideloads ruin bearings so definately don't do that! Ask me how I know...

If you don't have a press and want to make sure to get it done right a good option might be to take it to a welding shop or mechanic with a press and have them do it.

If you do it yourself, here are some tips I found helpful.

Freeze the shaft heat the bearing to 350-400 in the oven

Place shaft in drill and sand evenly with sandpaper while it is spinning to take some material off if press if you are using circlips or something to hold everything in place

Taper the end of shaft (evenly) so that it starts a little easier

Make sure to try to apply pressure to the inner bearing race whenever possible

Lubrication

You could even drill a hole in a scrap of metal same size as shaft and use clamps to press the bearing on.

Hope that helps, looks great so far man!

[StudEbiker]

Well, I just bought some new flange bearings because I used the hammer and socket method of putting the bearings into the plates so I guess that counts as side shock load. Oh well, they are not too expensive. I've been doing some research and it seems like it is better to press the bearings onto the shaft rather than press the shaft into the bearing so I guess I will try that. I will try to get everything right and then take it all down to a shop and have them press it in. I'm a little concerned that the bearings will not be 100% lined up evenly. I actually woke up in the middle of the night freaking out a little about that. The guy that made the plates clamped them together and drilled all the holes through both plates at the same time, so I hope they match close enough since the bolt holes are lined up. If I have to, I can still drill some more holes in the frame and not have them show, but obviously I hope I don't have to do that. Thanks for the help Etard.

[etard]

Well, usually you can tell the difference between an undamaged bearing and one that has been ruined just by spinning it. If it feels nice and smooth with no vibrations it should still be good. You CAN press on the whole bearing without damage, but usually hammering the whole bearing will damage it. And you can hammer the inner race on, but not usually the outer race. You got a helluva deal on the bike, good job on pouncing on that!

[StudEbiker]

Here is another thread that dealt with a set back on this build that I wanted to include here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31534

[StudEbiker]

Well, after my recent setback, I think I am back on track and things are better than they would have been before. I just hope I made my dimples deep enough and once I Loc-Tite everything it holds together the way it is. Between this build and busting a tab weld on the TidalForce bike, this has been one of the most stressful E-bike weeks ever for me. Hopefully this is the storm before the calm.

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[StudEbiker]

Just a brief update. I got the unit back together with Loc-Tite and put it on the bike today and took it for a ride. Everything is holding the way it should! I can't say it is much fun to pedal right now because of the large front chain ring I out on it and the loss of energy at the jackshaft, but I think once I get the motor going it is going to be very fun. It's pretty much all done now except cleaning up the wiring.

[neptronix]

pics or it didn't happen

[StudEbiker]

IT'S GOING!!!! And it rides GREAT. I will update further later tonight......right now I'm going for a ride!

[Rassy]

Great to hear you got it going. Looking forward to the full report on how it performs.

I guess when I was over in Ashland a few months ago and told you I was expecting to see it running I was just a little ahead of time!

[Whiplash]

Cool build! How many watts are you actually pushing through it? I have a 24V 400 brushed motor/controller I want to try using on a bike just for fun through the gears..

[dbaker]

What speed are you getting? How much noise from the drive/motor?

[StudEbiker]

Peak watts today was 1400, but that's more than I had planed. The controller is pulling 40 amps and I had ordered a 30 amp controller. 40 amps is fun, and it will climb a wall, but that's not going to give me much range with my 10ah battery unless I can stay out of the throttle.

I had it up to 27 on flat level ground no pedal assist and I wasn't in top gear yet. I had planned for no faster than 30mph, so it looks like I got that pretty close.

It was a very warm day today and the motor got quite warm, but never so hot that I couldn't hold my hand on it. The controller got warm too, but not very.

As far as noise, the planetary makes the most noise I think. It's pretty loud, but not uncomfortably so.

There is an intermittent squealing sound that I'm not sure if it is coming from the planetary or a bearing. After it had been doing it for a little while I took the motor off the planetary. I have read there is an issue with the planetary rubbing the motor.

I had put a spacer, but I was concerned the spacer had not been thick enough and the squealing sound was the planetary rubbing the motor. After opening it up, it didn't look like it had been rubbing.

I decided to put some more grease in the planetary in case I hadn't put enough in the first attempt. Back out for a ride, the squeal was still there, but after riding for a little while longer it seemed to go away, so hopefully that was the issue.

Overall, I am extremely happy with the way it rides. I could use a larger front chainring to keep up with the jackshaft RPMs, but that is somewhat typical for builds like this I think.

I took it over one of the overpasses that I regularly cross. Unassisted, the TidalForce bike will do it at 14mph. Today I did it on the Bike E unassisted at 20mph.

[StudEbiker]

I think I found out what the squealing was. The shaft moved in the bearings which let the #25 sprocket come in contact with the mounting plates. I don't think this is a major fail, but it was shifted so much that pedaling effort has gotten very hard and efficiency is in the toilet. I'm burning like more than an ah per mile. The next thing will be to add some spacers somewhere to keep the chain off of the plates.

The other bummer is that the gear hub is slipping. It's already not good and I know it will probably get worse. I may end up lacing the Nuvinci developer kit and trying it in the rear and see how that goes.

The bike is a real pleasure to ride though. So comfortable. And I have to say, having the extra weight of the battery and motor on it actually improves the ride of what it was originally. It is much quieter (when the motor isn't running) now going down the road.

There's just a few bugs to be worked out, but I still think this is going to be a good ride. I

[dbaker]

How is the SA hub failing? Does it slip in all gears or just in 1st? What was your regular use pattern with the internal gear and the external casette/derraileur; how did you move through the gears?

[StudEbiker]

How is the SA hub failing? Does it slip in all gears or just in 1st? What was your regular use pattern with the internal gear and the external casette/derraileur; how did you move through the gears?

It is slipping in all gears, but mostly in overdrive. I never rode this bike much before putting the motor on it. Only about 60 miles. The bike was poorly maintained before I got it. I have not shifted under power if that is what you are asking. I may have shifted once or twice yesterday under slight power just because I was getting use to the new drive and getting e coordination of it down. I have tried adjusting the shift cable and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I read on one site that one way to test if it is the hub slipping or poor cable adjustment is to take the cable off. It will default into overdrive then you can ride and see if the slipping is still there. If it is, it's the hub, if it's not, it's the cable adjustment. I guess I will try that out, but first I have to get the #25 chain off of the plates.

[Gordo]

Maybe put some thin teflon washers between the sprockets and the plates? Even scrap poly plastic from bleach bottles etc can be effective friction reducers.

[StudEbiker]

Yeah, I'm gonna try Teflon washers first. Thanks for the tip.

[StudEbiker]

Well, I just started pulling things apart to put a spacer on the shaft and I see that one of the bearings is trashed too. So maybe that was the squealing sound. Nothing worthwhile is easy right??

[LI-ghtcycle]

Glad to hear you have it up and running, I got my motor finally, but you definitely got yours going first!

Hope the bearing is easily replaceable, if that is all the trouble you have, maybe you just need a heavier duty one and then you're set?

Sounds like it should be working well for you soon, and I'd love to see some pics once you can.

That trashed bearing would definitely take away your efficiency, so here's to hoping that is all you need to fix the problem.

[StudEbiker]

Thanks LI-ghtcycle, but I'm afraid with the slipping gear hub, there's more to be fixed than just replacing a bearing. I'm bummed but not down. Of course I would have liked for it to have worked perfect the first time, but such is life as they say. I still have to check to see if it is a chain slipping somewhere, or the gear hub. I suppose if it's the gear hub, I'll end up putting an S-A 3x9 in it, but that means having it laced in a rim which means more money and longer before I get it on the road. The good news is that while it was running right, it was incredible. Keep on keepin' on as they say.

[Gordo]

Thanks LI-ghtcycle, but I'm afraid with the slipping gear hub, there's more to be fixed than just replacing a bearing. I'm bummed but not down. Of course I would have liked for it to have worked perfect the first time, but such is life as they say. I still have to check to see if it is a chain slipping somewhere, or the gear hub. I suppose if it's the gear hub, I'll end up putting an S-A 3x9 in it, but that means having it laced in a rim which means more money and longer before I get it on the road. The good news is that while it was running right, it was incredible. Keep on keepin' on as they say.

You have built a beautiful, light, compact reduction which many can use to keep an RC type motor running in the sweet spot. I am sure it is disappointing for it to not be 100% perfect on the first try. Rest assured that companies spent 1000's of $$ on similar engineered designs which turn out to be totally useless because they can't even find a bearing which will take the load they have miscalculated to exist.
Did you try the suggestion of using a freezer and heated components for assemble. This is very good, valid advice. I have used it on everything from PS pumps to ring gears on flywheels. No beating the bearings to death is needed.
Don't expect a geared hub be happy with 10X it's intended input.
Maybe try a single speed as proof of concept and go from there?

[StudEbiker]

You have built a beautiful, light, compact reduction which many can use to keep an RC type motor running in the sweet spot. I am sure it is disappointing for it to not be 100% perfect on the first try. Rest assured that companies spent 1000's of $$ on similar engineered designs which turn out to be totally useless because they can't even find a bearing which will take the load they have miscalculated to exist.
Did you try the suggestion of using a freezer and heated components for assemble. This is very good, valid advice. I have used it on everything from PS pumps to ring gears on flywheels. No beating the bearings to death is needed.
Don't expect a geared hub be happy with 10X it's intended input.
Maybe try a single speed as proof of concept and go from there?

Thank you Gordo.

Yeah, I turned the shaft down in a drill press using emery cloth, and cooled the shaft in ice before assembly, but the bearing has to go on the shaft for about 3" on the side that went defective and it just seemed like the shaft wasn't cold enough. As far as heating the bearing, the person I was working with was concerned that heating the bearing might make the OD smaller because of the expansion. At first I disagreed, but after thinking about it some, it did seem like that might occur. The metal would expand in all directions, not just outward so why wouldn't the OD get smaller? I also put flat surfaces on the inner and outer race of the bearing as I lightly tapped it on bracing the other side of the shaft. The best news though is the all the set screws have held so at least that issue is sorted out it looks like.

I am still holding out hope that there is just an adjustment on the 3x7 that isn't right. If I end up going with something else, I will either put an S-A 3x9 in it, or the Nuvinci developer kit with the automatic electric shift. The Nuvinci should be able to handle the power easily, but the Nuvinci will add more weight to the bike. It would be pretty awesome not having to shift though.

[Gordo]

You are 100% correct on heating a bearing makes the ID smaller. The trick is to heat a segment. A pie slice section of the bearing or any other cylindrical junction. I remember heating and beating my 30" boat propellor half to death over a 2 day period, after I bent the shaft from hitting a rock. An old fellow came along to investigate all the cursing and asked me if I had heated it? After confirming that I did not know what I was doing, he took the torch, heated a small area of the prop, to just hand warm and told me to hit it on the back side. Knowing this was a useless idea, I hit it a half-assed blow and it FELL OFF. My big problem with this knowledge, is no one will believe you, until they learn to just heat stuff a little bit, in a small section, before giving it a tap. I took a frozen bushing off a starter motor shaft, just a month ago, using this method. Heat a little on one side, and tap the shaft on a steel block. The bushing fell off.
Throw your shaft in the freezer for a couple of hours instead of ice. Colder is better.
If you ever get a chance at -50*F or C, take a hammer and strike a steel plate with it. Hard steel behaves like glass when the molecules are compacted enough.
Heat a small area of your bearing and quickly slip it home, on the cold shaft. You will be amazed.