GT i-drive 2.0 Build

[GCinDC]

I'll still need a week to analyze the recommendations and respond appropriately... What pressure! Allz I can say is that I'm gonna be a real pain to support in developing an RC -- oops, NONHUB -- bike! And please ignore what i said about hoping it's innovative... Sure, I DO, but 2 seconds after saying so I realized how preposterous it was to say so, esp to you innovators... i was dizzy at the time cause i'd just seen a one pound carbon frame and was musing HAL's intro comment to his ALBINO: "The idea is to fill gap between DH and Motocross bikes. I would like to be as close to DH as possible. In this project I plan to have no financial restrictions no mather how long it takes."

Did you notice any change in performance with the Hall repair? Sounds mean

Yeah, Charlie's getting better at helping remove the freewheel. But if you mean the motor, no, I don't notice a difference from normal operation.

Gotta get that spoke fixed. Until then, I'm grounded and just harassing the wildlife as in this morning's quick clip of disappointingly slow geese:


While others are having fun:

[dbaker]

Were you able to ID those bikes?

[GCinDC]

Were you able to ID those bikes?

No, but you're probably asking because you know I've been hunting and hunting for the right donor.

Something's changed - It's finally dawning on me that while the complicated rear triangle linkages etc are nec on DH bikes to prevent pedal bob etc, they're not as necessary for high powered ebikes/motorcycles (and perhaps not worth spending the money on).

So a beefy single pivot swingarm with a long travel shock might do the trick... or I've got to talk to hal about this!:

[Lenk42602]

[Something's changed - It's finally dawning on me that while the complicated rear triangle linkages etc are nec on DH bikes to prevent pedal bob etc, they're not as necessary for high powered ebikes/motorcycles (and perhaps not worth spending the money on).

So a beefy single pivot swingarm with a long travel shock might do the trick... or I've got to talk to hal about this!:

yes. that is the conclusion I also came to, whether its hub r RC drive....

also consider where the bbshell/crankarms are located - main frame or swingarm...

my bb shell is fixed to the swingarm and not the main frame. No chain growth as the suspension travels. this may become even more critical to think about if you go rc.

Len

[GCinDC]

yup. and the idea might have dawned on me while rereading your thread.

[dbaker]

Did you notice how slow they were going biking back up those hills? To survive those drops you must have a bike that can take more punishment than a light XC bike and that means stronger and therefore heavier. I don't think the landing that guy did on the rear wheel would have worked with a standard QR rear axle. Serious downhill bikes have 20mm front axles and 12mm rear axles with wheels built to take major punishment. Frames are heavier and shocks have more travel to dump that impact energy without reaching peak loads that will break the bike. Lots of DH bikes to choose from .........

[GCinDC]

yeah, i'm with you on all these things:

20mm front axles
12mm rear axles
wheels built to take major punishment.
shocks have more travel

i'm not getting another XC bike, that's for sure!

i came really close to buying one of these off ebay last weekend, but then realized a single pivot swingarm would be fine for ebike...

i doubted whether the hubbie would even fit w/ that brake stabilizer bar, and way too complicated in there for an non-hub... hell of a brute tho!

[fizzit]

The down tube actually looks good to clamp on a mid-drive, the stuff on the rear swingarm is no worries if you're doing that cuz then you just use the standard chain.

[chroot]

Yep, I agree with fizzit and this bike you showed the picture is perfect plenty room for batteries and mid-drive system.

[GCinDC]

[sn0wchyld]

how are you waterproofing your bike? (mainly in reagards to your phase/hall wires and throttle etc) as I'd like to waterproof my bike soon... cheers. I know its probably somewhere in the last 150 pages.... just like trying to find a needle in a haystack!

[chroot]

Someone had their hub motor holes and drove in rain day without any problem except you need keep the controller dry as possible as you can.

[sn0wchyld]

Someone had their hub motor holes and drove in rain day without any problem except you need keep the controller dry as possible as you can.

yea mine'll be holy too... not so worried about the hub as ill put some waterproofing on it when I open it up, its more about the wires... im going to order some waterproof connectors but im interested to see what others have done, particually to be able to ride through water like here!!

[GCinDC]

waterproof fabric, can't remember the name - EDIT: it's CORDURA, wrapped around the controller end, and all connections. here's an old pic, from page 19:

The down tube actually looks good to clamp on a mid-drive, the stuff on the rear swingarm is no worries if you're doing that cuz then you just use the standard chain.

Really? Bummer, cause it was a sweet deal. Had brand new 888's or somesuch. I need to start researching these. What are the middrive options? cyclone? matt's astro? thud's 2 speed? whiplash's whatchacallit? stokemonkey? others... i'm probably not going to use an agni here, right? and i'm gonna hold off on mounting the 9C in the triangle for now...

[chroot]

Greg- Ask deecanio, I saw his vids equiped 2 stage astro RC setup on his Kona Stinky, and He gave up his RC set-up because his sensitive throttle cause his Kona Stinky bike wheelie too much!!!!

He sold his 2 stage RC set-up for HS35 hub motor.

PS. I cant find his youtube and give me time searching the vids for you.

[GCinDC]

i can always do a hubbie, and for most things that'll be fine, but i want to explore other options to get some real torque, even if lower speed.

i need to get out of my thread more...

[chroot]

Found. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7HkjcEvBs

[deecanio]

not again
i need to make some new vids and lay that one to rest Kim's edit now legendary.

D

[flyinmonkie]

You covered most of the options Greg. But there are a few others if you are willing to make or have a motor mount made up. Have a look on superkids.com in the motor section of ebike or scooter parts. There are several options in brushed and brushless that can be used as a nonhub or middrive.

From spending most of my time in the nonhub section, cyclones can be good if you get the higher wattage ones with an external controller, just junk the mount and make your own. The attachments are pretty average and fiddly for them.

Probably the closest thing to a bolt on kit will be either Whiplashes system, when he has it for sale, or Matt's stuff. Matt has most of it pretty sorted from throttle to controller to motor and mounts. His stuff is expensive, but worth it. The trick is deciding where to mount it and getting chain lines right.

The last big decision with mid drive is whether to drive the cranks or go directly to the rear hub. The direct to the rear hub full sus's I have seen have the motor mounted on the swing arm. The rest of the full sus's I have seen drive the crank to use the rear dérailleur to deal with chain growth. There are of course several options in each of those options as well.

Check out Timma's stuff for an amazing cyclone setup. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23409 Also, you mentioned the Motoped. Magudaman has done an electric version of one and mentioned working with them to offer it as an option. He has kind of disappeared, or has not posted in the thread for a while. Some one put up a video of it finished though. Looks pretty good. Here is his thread. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22560

Hope some of that helps. You could have a look at my set up for some inspiration as well. I use a brushed currie driving the rear hub on a heard tail. I have designed it all myself and had lots of the stuff made up. It hasn't been cheap, but I am happy with the result so far. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19841

Yup, definitely time to get out of the hub section for some research.

Clay

[full-throttle]

Great discussion guys

As been said - hubmotors are good for commuting. They are silent, sealed, cheap, easy to install and maintenance free.

Their off-road performance is compromised due to the unsprung weight. However, in some cases, their benefits outweigh reduced performance.

I'd look into a 2kW, 40kph top speed, 500Wh Cyclone DH conversion for jumps and technical trails. As light as possible.

[Thud]

Dbaker:

I don't think the landing that guy did on the rear wheel would have worked with a standard QR rear axle. Serious downhill bikes have 20mm front axles and 12mm rear axles with wheels built to take major punishment.

After watching that video 3 times I am not certain that rear wheel survived that landing.

[kfong]

Greg, was that you that tried to snipe my bike I 'm waiting on delivery. Should arrive Monday. Not an easy conversion if you don't have the tools. 150mm dropout with thru axial mount, as well as the floating brake to worry about. It will be my winter build. I'll have to CNC new plates and lower the axial to make it work. Should be a fun bike when I get done with it. Only drawback is the frame size, I would of preferred a medium. 9" of rear travel and the 888's was what initially caught my eye on that bike. The bike had the white fronts shocks, FYI.

Going with my favorite BMC V2T motor and actually started using Lipo's this year, now that I have a charger I trust and a system that I feel good about. Would be cool as an RC build, but I hate the noise they make in the trails. I still plan on converting my Kona Cowan to RC, that bike will be just for jumps, so balance will be a bit more critical.

yeah, i'm with you on all these things:

20mm front axles
12mm rear axles
wheels built to take major punishment.
shocks have more travel

i'm not getting another XC bike, that's for sure!

i came really close to buying one of these off ebay last weekend, but then realized a single pivot swingarm would be fine for ebike...

i doubted whether the hubbie would even fit w/ that brake stabilizer bar, and way too complicated in there for an non-hub... hell of a brute tho!

[GCinDC]

Greg, was that you that tried to snipe my bike

Nope. If I'd have tried, I would have won... I was prepared to go a fair bit higher, but I'm glad I didn't so you could you get it at such a bargain. I was sad to watch it go tho. Hell of rig and set of components at that price! I had an inkling that another ebiker was on top of it. I look forward to seeing how it goes.

I'd look into a 2kW, 40kph top speed, 500Wh Cyclone DH conversion for jumps and technical trails. As light as possible.

hey FT, your numbers confuse me, esp when i look here. 2kW/40kph? i'm seeing 1200W 70kmh... is this what folks typically buy?

It'd probably be good for me to buy low end and burn it up first, before going high end. how else could i truly appreciate it?

it sure would be wild to use the gears again...

gwhy!, i've been following your trials build ebike->motorcycle. i never found out what motor/controller kit it is. i've been looking at a lot of trials bikes lately, as they seem like such a nice blend. what's your top speed with that?

clay, thanks for the patient counsel.

it seems like at the 2kW level, the geared motors can compete w/ the cyclones. is that true?

[kfong]

I'm glad we didn't get into a bidding war
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the build as well, but it's going to take a while. I do plan to have it running by spring.

I'm running my cyclone at 50v. It was originally the 600w setup. Even the 24v controller was able to run at 50, but it looked over built to begin with. It pulls better than my BMC running at 40v. This isn't a far comparison since I have the BMC current limited at 35 and the cyclone has no limit and running lipos. The BMC is on konions, and can't really put out the current. It's not a bad setup if you can get better motor mounts for it. The ones that come with it are crap, and will break under hard use. I don't care for the gearing setup, you will have to give some thought to that if you want to pedal any significant amount. The noise is also an issue with me. I need something that does not attract attention when trail riding. My build thread shows what I had to do to get the motor mounted reliably for trail use. I had to put a bash guard on it since it sat so low. Never really intended to use it for my main trail bike, or else I would of mounted it differently. Still might, depending on how the Nuvinci hub works out. Going to be interesting with electronic shifting.

I plan to bump up the BMC to higher voltages on the new bike as well as move up to LIPos, I think the performance will be similar under the 2000W level.

I wasn't really impressed with the cyclone at 40v till I bumped it up to 50 this summer after watching a video one company pushing the motor. It does get hotter at these levels, so a heat sink on the motor would be a good thing. I plan on putting the Nuvinci hub on it this winter. If I can work out a drive setup where I can put useful pedal input. Then for a commuter bike this would be great, it's currently my utility bike for errands and groceries.

[chroot]

Greg- Make sure you want install the motor heat sink on the motor cuz that motor is damn hot when you push them hard. I went SF ebike club and I saw couple guys has the cyclone with heavy heat sink on the motor. It does work very well.

They used metal sheet like 1/4 or less inch gap thick aluminum mount on the frame with the cyclone motor on it. Pretty good strong than the clamp style.