New ES Forum? eBike laws and politics

[Lock]

How boring would that be?

Legal stuff comes up on ES from time to time, and although we are spread out around the world across many different jurisdictions and under many different laws, it might be nice if ES had a separate area where ebikers can find threads that talk about legalities and policy and... uhhh... other crap like that...

Just a thought. Anybuddy else think this might be useful for ebikers?

Tks
L0cK

[dogman]

I think it would be a good idea. Getting your ebike legal information from a sellers website is not ideal. Many sites that tried to post ebike law from state to state have outdated and or incomplete information. They may list ebike statutes, but fail to show the definitions section of the vehicle codes, which may have very important information in it.

Tracking down really good info on vehicle codes can be harder than it seems. In NM, for instance, the link to the actual vehicle code for NM has been messed up for two years now. The link takes you to the NM constitution. I have no idea how to get on the page for the actual vehicle codes anymore for NM. Sites that post summaries of the code, sometimes rewritten into undersandable english are utterly worthless.

Be great to have a section for EV legal discussions, including stickys with links to the real state website for the vehicle code in different places. Before the link, you could post a list of applicable codes, like see definititons section bla bla, " motorised bike" or " bike with helper motor"

Bunch a work, but if each state had one guy do thier state it could be spread out. Then let the discussions of how to interperet the written code begin.

[deardancer3]

I agree and would support a legal/government section for ebikes.

d

[Lock]

In NM, for instance, the link to the actual vehicle code for NM has been messed up for two years now. The link takes you to the NM constitution. I have no idea how to get on the page for the actual vehicle codes anymore for NM.

http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm


1oCk

[Pure]

I like the idea of having a forum dedicated to e-bike laws, but think politcs need to stay down in the toxic area and not muddy the law forum.

A law forum would be a good resource to have even if it didn't get much traffic but was full of post from each state giving that state's (or country's law) as a search on ES for up to date law for a noob is a hell of a lot easier than digging through DOT websites.

[gogo]

I would like to see a law forum. It would be a big help toward advising people in other states or countries.

[Lock]

Hi Pure

Just to be clear, when I put "politics" in the thread title I wasn't thinking of Federal or Provincial/State level politics as in political parties, but rather the politicking that goes on around ebikes in the medias and city committees and advocacy groups initiated by "concerned citizens" that don't understand what ebikes are about especially raising undue safety etc concerns.

Tks

L0cK

[Pure]

Well in that case, by all means. I just don't want political arguments in any of the useful parts of the forum. lol

[neptronix]

I am all for this becoming a separate forum.

[amberwolf]

The law section would be much better done as part of the Wiki, updated as needed. But if it has to be part of a forum, then each state needs one stickied thread, plus the federal, and that's just for the USA. Then there are all the individual subdivisions of all the other countries, not to mention local legal codes at municipality level.


Done as part of the wiki it's easy to have articles for each country, containing subsections for each subdivision and/or links to the articles for each of those subdivisions, and subsections or links to articles for smaller divisions within those.

[neptronix]

But here's the thing, information about laws, legal issues from members, and political things are constantly changing.
There is pretty frequent talk on this topic...
Static info would be good to have as a FAQ post.

Where's that wiki we've been talking about making for years again?

[Lock]

Hi Nep...

...information about laws, legal issues from members, and political things are constantly changing.

Thing is, I'm reading the same stuff, over and over again from towns and cities across North America... Online media articles about ebikes which may be positive or negative, then online [C]omments posted always with the same negative concerns (they go too fast, they are too heavy, we should all be pedaling, they burn coal, batteries are toxic... etc.) City staff and councillors getting complaints... Most folks on ES will have heard some of this stuff already from their own neighbours directly or indirectly.

It might be nice for novice ebikers or folks interested in ebikes who may have heard these negative things to be able to see all "issues" collected together in one handy spot.

I think what happened in Fort Collins recently was a huge loss for ebikers:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29455

In March 2011 the city of Sarnia Ontario did the same thing:
http://www.ebikeriders.com/messages/boards/thread/16334292#55798062

A recent report from Windsor Ontario:

CITY EYES E-BIKE REGS
2011-11-17 06:24:39
With their numbers growing, the City of Windsor is being asked to regulate e-bikes. Ward 6 councillor Joanne Gignac says a new bylaw is needed to improve public safety. City administration is checking to see what other cities have done and a report is expected at city council within a couple of weeks.

North Bay Ontario City Council meets November 28th to decide on a new by-law restricting ebikes on City trails...

Veloman recently heard some unsettling stuff from Austin TX:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33809

Personally while I am interested in seeing existing "bad" (out of date) laws updated, I am more interested in seeing that new laws banning and restricting ebikes for the wrong reasons are not added to the list.

Laws nEVer include the reasons why they were enacted. The background legislative record and debate gets lost in time. When Windsor etc city staff look to copy/paste legislation from other jurisdictions they won't be reading the debate and supporting logic or data etc that led to laws in other places, just the end results.

Underlying all complaints and restrictive legislations about ebikes is the idea that somehow they are less safe than the pedal-only bike, and I don't believe this is true.

I think we have a whack-a-mole situation going on here, and the moles are winning.

LocK

[Lock]

One example of what's happening w/ebikes in NA, from an ebike retailer:

Hi L@cK,
Yes we have been involved we did interviews for both local tv and radio and our comments were left out completely. Although the tv station did some shots of our store in and out and those were shown during the news broadcast. We already have letters out to Councillor ******. We find that in all media and council here in ******* are very slanted towards the negative and they do not care that their opinions are largely based on false statements. The TV reporter that came here I gave 15 pgs of information from the Ministry of Transportation in regards to E-Bikes and she still misquoted items in the newscast.

How much warning do ebikers need?

L@cK

[amberwolf]

But here's the thing, information about laws, legal issues from members, and political things are constantly changing.
There is pretty frequent talk on this topic...
Static info would be good to have as a FAQ post.

Right; it is only the current actual law that I'm talking about in my previous post.

Where's that wiki we've been talking about making for years again?

MRVass (the forum techy maintainer guy) made it back when Justin saved ES from ad-hell; I thought he had posted about it but I'm so wiped out from flu i can't think how to find that post. i Did save a link to it though, and it works with your ES login, so every es member already has a login for it.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Main_Page

[Lock]

Wierd. Logged on, and no way to add a page or link to page etc that I can see...

[amberwolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... ate_a_page