Belt driven off road bike (Giant Reign)

[1000w]

My latest build is based on a Giant Reign frame that I picked up for $200. I want a powerful off road, rock climbing bike with a top speed around 40 to 50kmh.
The drive train is a single stage right hand belt drive using a Cyclone 1500w motor, 5mm HTD belt, 20 tooth drive pulley to a custom made 186 tooth rear pulley mounted on a ENO free wheel.
I'm running 20" wheels to help keep the speed down and the torque right up, plus allow the motor to fit between the rear wheel and the seat tube.
I have previously pushed 3700w through a Cyclone 1500w for a trouble free 4000km, so I'm going for 6000w to 7000w on this build via a 24 fet infineon and a 20s A123 20ah prismatic pack from Cellman.
Here are some parts that I have been collecting.





http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f331/ ... reign5.jpg

The beautiful two piece 20s A123 pack from Cellman


Custom made 186 tooth rear pulley, the teeth are molded onto a machined V pulley using a belt and epoxy glue.



More to come soon, including why the drop outs have been cut off the frame.
Cheers,
Matt.P.

[flyinmonkie]

Looking forward to this one Matt.

Clay

[sico]

Awesome Matt, looking forward to seeing it take shape. Excellent score on the frame, I keep looking out for those deals but can't seem to catch them. Did you get it local?


Simon

[1000w]

Excellent score on the frame, I keep looking out for those deals but can't seem to catch them. Did you get it local?

Yes, keep an eye on http://perthmtb.asn.au/classified/for_sale
Cheers,
Matt.P.

[1000w]

Some more photos,

24 fet, 1500w Cyclone and magura throttle



Manitou stance forks.



I needed more room for the motor between the rear wheel and the seat tube, plus I wanted horizontal dropouts so there is some adjustment in the rear wheel for the belt drive set up.
So I cut the original dropouts off and fabbed up some extended ones out of 10mm alli plate.






These are reinforcement plates, also 10mm plate.








I just bought this TIG welder, time to get the welding skills up.



More soon.

[AussieJester]

**SubSCRiBED**..i . Expect to see the frame fully welded by end of tomorrow Matt ...

KiM

[Tench]

Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Your tig is almost identical to mine, bet they came out the same factory with different names on them! Mine is a Butters 200 ac/dc, does a good job with practice but not as smooth as a friends 3 phase 350a Miller.

[Tench]

Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Your tig is almost identical to mine, bet they came out the same factory with different names on them! Mine is a Butters 200 ac/dc, does a good job with practice but not as smooth as a friends 3 phase 350a Miller.

[TopCat]

Subscribed- simply coz I fell in love with those big fat chunky wheels

Regards
Tom

[Whiplash]

Should be a killer build! Single speed drive right? I have never seen that kind of cyclone? I thought they only made them with the planetary reduction??

[E-racer]

Nice job on the rear pulley, looks great! Even more proof that the epoxy method works. I like those wheels to!

[lostrack]

I was interested in a belt design...but am stuck wondering how you are going to fit the belt through the frame?

You'll either have to split the belt, or the frame. The newer belt designs have a split triangle design at the back.

Let me know how you get on!

Tom

[1000w]

You'll either have to split the belt, or the frame.

The belt is not going around the bottom bracket so the frame won't need to be split.



The two idler pulleys are necessary for the belt to clear the chain stays and also give the drive pulley maximum belt wrap.

[panurge]

Hi Matt

Beautiful build project...
if I understood correctly you have removed the gearbox from the motor.... and you intend to mount it between the seattube and the rear wheel ..... this would solve the belt problem..... but again if I understood correctly, you do not plan the use of pedals?! With your planned 20" tyres maybe this is the only way to make this project works for hard off-road use....hope you have yet analyzed the shock travel behavior with these tires and the position of the motor (waiting to see this on next pics)....
What does not convince me, is the cutting and re-weld the dropouts but I admire your courage and your determination in this and also I can say that the plan is good.....
The big pulley is made from? I've not a lot of experience with belts but is 5mm enough?
I'm really looking forward to your awesome build

Regards
Jules

EDIT: ehehe pic arrived.....

[1000w]

if I understood correctly you have removed the gearbox from the motor

No, this motor comes from Cyclone as a direct drive no gear reduction box.

The big pulley is made from?

See the first two pages of this thread for the pulley modification process. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10337

I've not a lot of experience with belts but is 5mm enough?

5mm HTD belts are OK for up to just over 7kw according to the charts I've seen.
Cheers,
Matt.P.

[RWP]

I've not a lot of experience with belts but is 5mm enough?

5mm HTD belts are OK for up to just over 7kw according to the charts I've seen.
Cheers, Matt.P.

Nice project. I do hope your 5mm belt system works - so I can do something like it.
The charts I have seen do show high power capacity but only at higher RPM, at low RPM the power capacity goes to almost zero...just when we need the belt to move our bikes and us from a standstill up to speed. Perhaps with the maga wrap you are proposing it will work - I hope so.

The first iteration of the eCortina had two 5mmx15mm belt systems. The second of these belts failed early on. Even with a smaller motor the primary belt eventually failed. But there was nothing to give me more belt wrap.

[panurge]

if I understood correctly you have removed the gearbox from the motor

No, this motor comes from Cyclone as a direct drive no gear reduction box.

The big pulley is made from?

See the first two pages of this thread for the pulley modification process. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=10337

I've not a lot of experience with belts but is 5mm enough?

5mm HTD belts are OK for up to just over 7kw according to the charts I've seen.
Cheers,
Matt.P.

Ah ....OK, thanks for the link....sorry but I'm new here.....
Your method is fantastic.....
Can't wait to see next steps!!!!

Regards

Jules

[sico]

Hi Matt,

How does the weight compare between the motor+mount+wheel for this setup compared to the mac motor in the wheel?

I"m wandering if you have sacrificed some of the advantage of the non-hub set up by making the motor+mount part of the unsprung weight (i.e. mounting them on the spring arm)? That will mean that the inertia of the motor+mount will prevent the swingarm from moving (as) rapidly in response to a bump.

With no pedals, did you consider the idea of using the bottom bracket to hold a lay shaft?

Simon.

[AussieJester]

Might not move (as) rapidly Simon, but
Seeing Matt has the motor mounted
Next to the swingarms pivot point, it won't
Be nearly as bad as having a 15kilo 'boat anchor'
hanging off the end of the swing arm.
Matt I think also likes the simplicity of the direct
Drive, plus the lower noise of belts... I been trying ro
Talk him into RC setup for two years, the multi reduction
Thing puts him off....

KiM

[kfong]

That's a unique belt layout, I like it. Looking forward to the final design and results.

[sico]

Might not move (as) rapidly Simon, but
Seeing Matt has the motor mounted
Next to the swingarms pivot point, it won't
Be nearly as bad as having a 15kilo 'boat anchor'
hanging off the end of the swing arm.
Matt I think also likes the simplicity of the direct
Drive, plus the lower noise of belts... I been trying ro
Talk him into RC setup for two years, the multi reduction
Thing puts him off....

KiM

Haha, the Mac motors are a fair bit lighter than 15kg mate, but I can see that the geometry might give you a slight advantage though. Matt will be able to directly compare this bike to the red one offroad when its done so that will be the true test.

[AussieJester]

To get similar power levels to what mMatt will
be getting with the overvolted cyclone you'd be needing
A bigger frock than a MAC, an X5 for example, what's
the weight on those again, Simon

KiM

[sico]

Well Kim, its surprisingly difficult to find those figures, and I've never actually handled or seen an x5. Best I could find on the web is that an x5 weighs 20lbs, which is about 9kg. The Mac weighs 4.3kg according to cell-man and the cyclone weighs 4.8kg if I am looking at the right model. The 9c such as Richard and I run is 6.8kg.

So there isn't a gulf between them if weight is the main consideration.

Simon.

[1000w]

Hi Matt,

How does the weight compare between the motor+mount+wheel for this setup compared to the mac motor in the wheel?

I"m wandering if you have sacrificed some of the advantage of the non-hub set up by making the motor+mount part of the unsprung weight (i.e. mounting them on the spring arm)? That will mean that the inertia of the motor+mount will prevent the swingarm from moving (as) rapidly in response to a bump.

With no pedals, did you consider the idea of using the bottom bracket to hold a lay shaft?

Simon.

I'm not too worried about the weight and the handling. I'm happy to do a build and see how it goes.
I love single stage belt drives ever since I built the blue cruiser.
Kim is right, I like the low noise and simplicity of a single stage belt drive so I never considered the bottom bracket lay shaft idea.
This drive set up has also allowed me to gear it how I want, lots of low down power with a moderate top speed.
Of course I can change the ratio as I have 4 different drive pulleys, 18, 20, 24, 30 tooth on their way to me, in the mail.
Cheers,
Matt.

[sico]

Nice one Matt, and thanks for the link to the mountain bikes for sale too, I'll be keeping an eye out there.

Do you get the pullies from small parts and bearings? I'd love to know a local supplier since small parts are expensive and not very fast on the delivery. Excellent website and catalogue though.

Simon.