Solar Powered Mobile Machine Shop, E-bike parts, and IP

[Kin]

^I also like that line.

[Alan B]

A bicycle that can keep up with traffic is fantastic, but is this a bicycle? It would seem to be beyond a moped and into motorcycle territory. How does it compare to electric motorcycles? Is there a place for it in the market?

Best of luck with your effort. It sounds excellent.

[AussieJester]

A bicycle that can keep up with traffic is fantastic, but is this a bicycle? It would seem to be beyond a moped and into motorcycle territory. How does it compare to electric motorcycles? Is there a place for it in the market?

Alan, there's nothing 'unique' about a 3220 Astro powered MTB there is dozens of people with similar setups already, Recumpence (the maker of the reduction drive on the bike in question) has literally sold dozens and dozens of drives there's even builds with dual 3220 Astros. You just don't see them for sale very often as they demand a high price, the motors alone are near 700 bucks... There is definitively a market for bikes like these, they handle extremely well
thanks to the even weight distribution of components ... Wanna see more like it dig through the non hub motor section of ES

KiM

[Alan B]

I certainly know that, but to make a commercial product like that is what I was talking about. Wasn't that the goal of this project? This is a prototype?

[AussieJester]

Ahh kk sorry Alan There's definitely a market, the fact Matt (recumpence) has sold so many
drive/motor combos is evidence of that, its just a more "select" market

KiM

[RallySTX]

Ya gotta be willing to try new things, to survive in the business world. Things are tough, and often there are no easy answers. The first to quit, is just the first loser. I really liked the part about clubbing too.
Brian L.

[mdd0127]

The bike I've posted videos of is just the drivetrain test mule for a much larger project. While it does use a lot of "standard" parts, there are a few things that are unique that make it what it is. The lipo parallel blocks, modified, narrowed recumpence drive running 219 chain and the battery enclosure are all totally unique and make help make the bike perform like it does. I'm not worried about anything getting hot or coming loose on it and that's saying a lot for what it is.

I know there's a demand for an ultralight pedalable electric dirtbike but finding someone with the guts and knowledge necessary to help us get it to market has been very frustrating.

I'm figuring stuff out every day though!

[etard]

So you are selling IP too? I don't really see anything unique about anything you have done here. Your ebike doesn't even have full suspension. How are you going to sell someone an offroad machine for $5000 without suspension??!!! It's not like you shared anything spectacular with the community, you might have impressed a few freinds back home by showing them something they have never seen, but here on ES it's an above average build. I don't really see the point of a mobile machine shop either. I don't think you researched your market very well, if you had you would have realized that off road peace loving cyclist enjoy the excercise and accomplishment in pedaling thier ass through technical terrain and conquering that mountain. On the other end of the spectrum is the DH crowd that also ride MX and could give two shits about sustainability and would rather pay $1000 more for carbon bits than sustaining your hippy lifestyle. My aim is not to offend here, but I think you need a serious reality check. The harsh reality is there is no market for this high powered ebike, there never was, and as the economy goes, possibly never will be. Also, the reason you are having problems selling your wares is that this is a community of hackers and modders ( and cheapskates) most would rather DIY it than pau somebody else for thier failed attempt at a prototype.

[Thud]

Holey smokes Etard.....bad day?

I know there's a demand for an ultralight pedalable electric dirtbike but finding someone with the guts and knowledge necessary to help us get it to market has been very frustrating.

I wouldn't say theres a demand....they don't exist in any form other than prototypes or home builds by tinker's.
Zero,Quantya,(looks like the blade is gone now) are in very limited production & are not selling out the inventory every year.
The issue is calling these light EV's "bicycles" as they will not pass the "bicycle" test.
They are an undefined class of super light moped's

Just my opinion:
Once you electrify it...The weight alone makes it a fail for any serious Mountain bicycler....
& motocrossers will destroy a bicycle in minutes.

Compaired to Gasoline fueled motocrossers (or even recreational dirt bikes) ellectrics are weak sauce & way down on range. (can't even make a legit 20 minute moto on one that would keep up with the mini bike classes on the track)

Everyone who takes a few laps on my E-bike road racers say Its fun...but not one of them would trade in their practice bikes to have one. & none of my friends who are activly racing are interested in blowing a grand to buy enough batteries to keep the fun going on an e-moto. My re-search shows a very tiny sub market at best.

Untill we build a bike that will run with a YZ85 for 15 minutes on a real motocross track, this is purly a niche market & a very small one at that.

My point? Get some realistic goals.
If your goal is to make a buck, develop some bolt on goodies that are idiot proof & provide a good service. Don't shoot for the moon or re-invent the wheel on every build. If it catches on, good.
Also, do it for yourself 1st. If its not fun & fulfilling personaly...there is no amount of money that'l make it worth doing.

your parralell blocks are nice & the Astro hall mount would sell....(don't know if you can make any money on them though) as would the 219 freewheeling dive sprocket...add a #35 option for the cheap bastards like myself.

This will start a mild competition for E powered bike parts providers. Matt S. has a good head start on every one but there is a whole world looking for options....build for the masses.

[Gordo]

So you are selling IP too? I don't really see anything unique about anything you have done here. Your ebike doesn't even have full suspension. How are you going to sell someone an offroad machine for $5000 without suspension??!!! It's not like you shared anything spectacular with the community, you might have impressed a few freinds back home by showing them something they have never seen, but here on ES it's an above average build. I don't really see the point of a mobile machine shop either. I don't think you researched your market very well, if you had you would have realized that off road peace loving cyclist enjoy the excercise and accomplishment in pedaling thier ass through technical terrain and conquering that mountain. On the other end of the spectrum is the DH crowd that also ride MX and could give two shits about sustainability and would rather pay $1000 more for carbon bits than sustaining your hippy lifestyle. My aim is not to offend here, but I think you need a serious reality check. The harsh reality is there is no market for this high powered ebike, there never was, and as the economy goes, possibly never will be. Also, the reason you are having problems selling your wares is that this is a community of hackers and modders ( and cheapskates) most would rather DIY it than pau somebody else for thier failed attempt at a prototype.

I'm with etard, and I'm not having a bad day either.
A dose of reality is needed. The reason this adventure failed is not the customers fault. What advantage a mobile shop has to the customer has always escaped me? The only benefit of a mobile shop is to service equipment that can not be economically brought to you. The cost of the infrastructure of a mobile shop to build a bike was a bad plan. Using this shop going from farm to farm, plant to plant or dock to dock could be a start? Look for a need and fill it.
Having been successfully self employed all my life in literally dozens of fields, I know your approach is ass-backwards. The path to success it to find a need first and supply a product or service second. Thinking there is a need, building something to satisfy a perceived need, does not work. I have often seen a need and then gone looking for someone who already has the solution, but did not care to market it. I have also looked at many backyard products and figured out how to make them, faster, cheaper, better. How to source the raw materials for less cost, or from scrap. Take a cheap cast iron pump and modify it for salt water, then keep looking until you find an all plastic pump to replace it. Replace expensive live tank air pumps with Jacuzzi hot tub jets. Never try to compete with someone who will work 12 hours for 8 hours pay. If someone copies your product well and sells it for less, quickly move on. Everywhere you go, look for someone doing something the "hard way." Figure out how to use power to do it faster, and cheaper.
It is a real shame to see a guy with a multitude of skills, trying to push shit uphill with a stick.
Being the smartest guy on the planet,does not mean you will be successful in feeding yourself.
Go look outward, instead of inward, for ideas.

[etard]

Holey smokes Etard.....bad day?

Maybe... I just didn't like his attitude in the first post. It's like all he ever wanted from this ebike thing was to make money, like you say, you have to enjoy it first only then can you put up with modding the chinese controllers or custom winding RC motors and all the other BS that goes with adding power to a bicycle. I also never saw this "prototype" before him trying to sell it, which tells me he does not want to SHARE in the community. If only somebody would hand me $20k and say " go build a badass ebike AND the machine shop of your dreams." Perhaps I'm bitter . Where is the build thread for this bike though??

[mdd0127]

My only goal from the start has been to build a bombproof, sub 75 lb, full suspension electric bike that can be pedaled. I joined this forum and have contributed as much as I could long before I found investors on this project. There absolutely is a market for the bike that's in my head. The bike I've completed is THE DRIVETRAIN TEST MULE! I can't post every little detail and drawing of the other things I've been working on because you're right, I'd like to make some money on something someday. I'm not a rich guy, never have been and probably never will be but it would be really nice to get some reward for my efforts. The shop needed to be mobile because I do not own land and didn't want to indefinitely rent. I also have not found a community that I fit into yet so being mobile was very important. Now, it's basically become an anchor.

So I'm sorry if 99% of the public doesn't have the reading comprehension or attention span to even comprehend what I'm working on but I can guarantee that if I ever manage to get the actual prototype done, you'll ALL want one.
I've shared some of the ideas with Amberwolf so maybe he can vouch for my intentions here, which are, build a freaking awesome e-bike, make a few bucks, start a farm. Not too difficult to comprehend.

As far as the test bike sale goes, if there were any tinkerers out there that wanted to DIY a bike, I just offered up all of the parts necessary to do so at less than cost.......plus it's a raging bike.

I don't care about competing with motocrossers. It's a different world. Every motocross guy that's ridden the test bike has been totally freaked out. It will wear most riders out before the battery wears out. Sorry if you don't "see" any innovation in the build but there are lots of things there that no one's done before and that's why it works the way it does.

I don't have any more patience for the ignorance and negativity.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get this show on the road soon and find someone with the intellect to understand the project and capital to make it what it should be.

[mdd0127]

thier failed attempt at a prototype.

This "prototype" is nowhere near a failure. You're welcome to come ride it and say that to my face.

[Tom Tom]

Hell, I've never seen your bike but, I'll be happy to pilot it up Pikes Peak for you.

[AussieJester]

]
I don't have any more patience for the ignorance and negativity.

You don't take criticism very well do you? If people don't agree with you they are
ignorant? Everything etard said is on the money mdd0127, a little harshly said maybe but
i agree with him. I have let alot of friends ride my bike too! yes they are all
hell impressed to, its also alot faster than yours accerates harder, is on a custom frame and comes with a
custom two speed dog box, BUT STiLL not one of them would fork out even
half of what your asking for your bike its simply not worth the money to the majority of people, when you can
go buy a lightweight motorcyle that goes 4 times as far 4 times as fast and can be licensed legally.

Your asking big money for a spcialty item, it is a niche' market buddy, don't be upset and negative
if we don't agree with you, take it on board and use it to improve your product...Also again
if you want any hope of selling products, your going to have to either start accepting paypal or credit cards
IMHO..most wont fart about with checks and money orders guaranteed, yeees, i know from what you
have said in the past, there's two chances of that ever happening, none and frock all LoL..

I wish you well none the less

Peace

KiM

[mdd0127]

Right on Kim.

I know that some very valid points were made but they were made by people that don't even really know what I'm working on. I do nuts and bolts. I came here to learn about the electronic side of things and make sure there was a drive combo worth designing a bike around. My test bike will flog an 85 for 15 minutes! No doubt about it. A 200lb guy can't power wheelie an 85. I have the bike DETUNED to a 110A limit in the vids and the slipper clutch is set pretty loose. If I tighten it up and bump up the amp limit, it will hit top speed in a second or two. It's scary as hell though. One run at 283A was all it took for me to tune it down. And....there's not even a transmission!

I really can't get into manufacturing and production because everybody's so used to Chinese prices. Making a few bucks here and there is basically a waste of my time. I am an unemployed homeless person with a mobile shop and a camper van. At this point, I really don't have much to lose. From the reaction of every single person that has seen in person, or ridden the test bike, I can't give this up. I can't post up the details on the frame because it's MY design, and MY IP, and my only real chance of making something positive out of this. I didn't get into this to build parallel blocks that take a few hours to make only to sell them for $15, which is what people used to chinese garbage expect.

I will NEVER take a credit card or paypal for anything and frankly, anyone that does is guilty of treason against humanity as far as I'm concerned. Those companies make slaves out of people with no thought about the repercussions of their actions. People using banks and credit cards constantly is why there is so much inequity in the world and I won't have any part of it.

Anyway, I'd better get back to work.

[AussieJester]

My test bike will flog an 85 for 15 minutes! No doubt about it.

Your bike wouldn't have any chance of beating a reasonably new model
85cc 2 stroke moto-cross bike period, let alone for 15minutes, unless
blind freddy was riding it of course, not a hope in hell buddy sorry

EDiT:- lets take a look at 65cc and 85cc motocross bikes for a minute-->


No e-bicyle i have seen to date could keep up with these on track for 3minutes let alone 15minutes

Against a clagged 20 year old 80cc possibly? even then a safe
Bet would be on the moto-x bike if it was on a dirt track ... As to current limits on the ESC
I used to hit ~280amp every ride until the
Reality set in, i'e you do it enough and the hv160 releases
Magic smoke...110amp is very safe and will definately
make your ride reliable while still having some poke You
can safely gotto 160amp i have found and the ESC doesn't seem to bothered
I'm not knocking your bike at all, im sure its quick
but we need some Reality checks here me thinks when we start talking
beating moto-x bikes and such...

As to paypal well, it is far from perfect granted, but its done me well
Agree with you on credit cards though they is evil, if I don
Have the $$ to buy something, I wait until I do.

KiM

[Gordo]

Hopefully, I'll be able to get this show on the road soon and find someone with the intellect to understand the project and capital to make it what it should be.

A more positive approach is to realize the only way your idea will fly is to HAVE the intellect to understand how to take make any project successful. Use your "nut and bolt skill" to earn enough capital to make a few examples and sell them for a profit. Then you build a few more and repeat.
Having done this with many diverse products (and not one cent of investor/bank capital) I know it works. Having watched and been approached by guys with your "plan", I can also assure you that I have yet to see one of them succeed. Those who have a world beater, build it and sell it. Those who don't, continue dreaming while they waste their life, looking for investors.