Project Thread: Morphine Prototype

[SHiFT]

I just had a really big long awesome post for you guys about how I almost died, and how I had to replace my whole frame, and everything, but I lost it!....

Anyway, here are some pictures. I'm getting ready to visit a buddy of mine, so no time to type it all up again. I will be back tomorrow with all the deets.

One thing I would like to know though is how you guys dealt with the tendency for the drive to want to twist toward the real wheel? Mine is twisting, and slackening up the chain so much that it comes off. I've got something in mind already to solve this, but wanted to get input from others who've used Recumpence's drive.

Thanks!

SHiFT

[SHiFT]

Quick Specs:
AstroFlight 3210
2x Zippy 5000mAh 6s 30C LIPO
V4 Drive Unit
CycleAnalyst w/ Big Screen

[recumpence]

I have never had one twist. The clamps are way to powerful to allow that.

Are they clamping all the way down? Maybe the frame tube is slightly too small and the clamps are bottoming out before full clamping force is applied........

Matt

[AussieJester]

If thats the case Matt.S ...would a few wraps of duct tape before fitting the clamps
help matters any?

Best of luck with the build, at first i thought ES member Morph999 was back building a new bike LoL

KiM

[recumpence]

If thats the case Matt.S ...would a few wraps of duct tape before fitting the clamps
help matters any?

KiM

Hmm, I don't know. I was going to say a layer of innertube as a shim. That would, also, protect the paint.

Matt

[SHiFT]

Sorry, I should clarify, this is not really a flaw in Recumpence's design. The clamps worked AMAZINGLY well on the last frame, the difference in diameter was like, 2 - 3mm of the clamp opening and the frame downtube.

However, this frame is not the same story. It's way too small - IIRC it's 35mm dia. I've got two layers of inner tube and it's still not really all that tight. I imagine Duct tape would be better as the inner tube turns even with the clamps cranked down all the way.

I should've clarified that when I said "tendency" but I was in a rush. I thought maybe someone else was out there with a similar situation - too small a diameter on the downtube, twisting motor.

Thanks for the input. I think I'll give the duct tape a shot. I was envisioning some complex method of fastening permanent shims of metal to the inner radius of the clamps, or something, but duct tape is a WAY better idea.

SHiFT

[amberwolf]

That downtube doesn't look round, but it looks like it changes in crosssection from rear to front. Maybe that is why the clamps don't hold right?

[rodgah]

i used ductape and innertube once.....

I wouldnt recommend either for a 3220 but since you're using a 3210 it might be worth a try, i had to make the frame so large the clamps really didnt even look like they were going to fit, then you can really put some force into it.

on the flip side if you are happy with that frame and want a permanent solution why not try 4 nutsert(rivnuts).....1 bolt for each clamp. Drill holes in the side of your frame, install nutserts, drill a hole in each clamp to line up with the nutsert, mount the drive, put bolts thru the frame clamps into each nutsert....

problem solvered.......though if you are sliding the drive up the tube as the means of tensioning the chain this would be an idiotic solution....

hence disregard anything i said and just go with the duct tape and inner tubes

Rodger

[drewjet]

I made my own clamps and had the same problem. I tried inner tube and tape and they all failed. What I did was extend the one clamp to pick up another tube to prevent torque from turning it.

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[recumpence]

Hmm, I would buy a piece of aluminum tube and make half moon shaped shims. That would solve it.

Matt

[etard]

Nice drive, looks great!!

Gotta say with only 5ah you will spend 90% of your time charging and 10% riding.....wait that seems to be me too no matter how many batteries I have. Damn high power setups!

[Danny Mayes]

Aluminum cans make quick, cheap shimming. It wont compress near as much as tape or inner tubes...

[SHiFT]

I even considered the bag of cans I have for recycling, but I was like, "Nah, the bike is already zip-tied and dremeled into "junkyard presentable" state, Coke cans as structural support would just be too ghetto." Hah.

Anyway, I did the duct tape trick. I wrapped it so fat the clamps didn't even fit without tightening and it worked! For now. I can see already after a couple runs it's not going to be a real solution.

I am able to run for about a minute at full speed before something decides to break. Mostly, the chain pops off cuz it's wobbling or something.

I think I'll just bolt straight throught the clamps and the frame. That's a good idea, thanks. That has to be the most permanent solution, short of welding.

Yes, 5000mAh is nothing, I basically got 4 test runs in today, and decided not to run the battery out too much. This relates to the "almost" dying part - but I touched the soldering gun, the soldering clamps annnnnd... both leads of the other LIPO battery. Yes, it sparked in my face. Yes, it instantly melted the contact points on the soldering clamp and the leads of the battery. Yes, I felt like I almost died. And no, I'm not touching that battery again. I am a noob with anything related to this, and even more so with LIPOs. I'm not taking the chance using a battery that might have sustained damage and just ordering another one. In the meantime, I'm running on one.

I know I didn't almost died, but I'd be telling a very different story right now if, instead of a clamp, I'd melted my finger, or worse. I was insulated by chance. Needless to say, that got my blood flowing.

On a side note, if someone who can test and properly care for a possibly compromised battery wants it, let me know. I don't know what to do with it now, and I hate to just recycle 60 bucks. I imagine a check of the cells would be in order, and then a few apprehensive charges, though I dunno if there is any coming-back from a mistake like that?

The motor is pretty powerful, but I only get up to what I estimate to be about 15mph (real, not butt dyno cuz that feels like 35 mph lol) though. So I wonder if I have to adjust the throttle input (like i'm not getting the motor to full power), or gear the hub, but shouldn't I have a higher top speed, even on one battery?

I think my rear cog is a 56 or 60t and front is 13t.

Thanks for the comments!

SHiFT

[recumpence]

That speed is probably right because you are running a 48 volt motor on 24 volts. So, with two packs, you will see 30mph. Wait till you run at 48 volts. It will pull ALOT harder than it is now.........

I still say all you need to do is get a piece of aluminum tube to cut into a few pieces to use as shims. No problem. It will tolerate 5 or 6 times the torque you are throwing at it that way.

Matt

[SHiFT]

Drew,

Nice bike. Very clean installation.

Amberwolf,

You're right. The downtube is square up top, but it rounds out, JUST as it hits the area the motor is mounted.

Recumpence,

I think I'll do that. I'll get some pipe and use that as shims. If I still get twisting, I'll bolt through the whole shebang.

SHiFT

[gwhy!]

Dont get ali tubes to make shims, All you need is some flat 1-2mm ali sheet its easy to cut with tin snips and very easy to bend into any shape that you need.

[SHiFT]

FYI:

A 4 inch long piece of black ABS pipe cut into 2 pieces did the trick.

I just cut it lengthwise, and clamped it around the tube with the motor mount. The pipe is not even bolted in and it's very solid. Kudo's to Recumpence's design as it clamps extremely tightly.

I've since put a full battery through the system at full speed (mostly), and I had 0 problems.

Now it's time to work on another battery for higher speed, rear geared hub, and some cosmetics.

Even with only 1 battery, I feel like if I pin the throttle and pull up a bit, I could do a wheelie. But I like my skin on my body and not the road, so I haven't tried that yet.

Awesome, stuff. Can't say enough good stuff about Recumpence's Drive system.

[AussieJester]

There will be nothing wrong with the cells in the battery
but if you dont want it I'll happily take it need more packs
For my rc heli

KiM

[SHiFT]

So quick question. I FINALLY got my replacement battery from HobbyKing - the wait there is horrendous.

So, I will hook these up together for discharging, but for charging should I charge them together to maintain the balance, or charge them separately? It better to charge separate right? Just asking to be safe, because I don't want to find out the hard way.

Thanks!
SHiFT

[Andje]

what kind of charger are you using?

[SHiFT]

I have two Zippy 5000mAh 6s 22.2v batteries

Charger is:
Hyperion EOS 1420i NET3

Thank you

SHiFT

[Andje]

same charger as mine; you will leave the two bats connected via a red and black to make your 12s, this leaves you a red and a black from each batt that goes to your charger. If you only have two batteries I would balance charge them every time by connecting the two balancing jst's. Then you tell your charger to be set for 44v or 12s and then set it for 5 ah and then just start. It will say it reccomends balance leads unless they are plugged in, but they don't need to be if the two batteries start off balanced and are used together they will tend to stay balanced for months as long as the cells don't drop below 3.5v. So if you bury them in your bike you can still charge just via the main +/- leads or if you have them easily available you can just balance charge them every time. If you ever step up to 4 batts for 12s 10ah then you could "bulk" charge them as one large 12s block, but to balance charge you would have to parallel the balance wires or take apart the pack to balance each brick.

[SHiFT]

Awesome. Thank you for the info. I'll go with your recommendation.

SHiFT

[SHiFT]

So I hooked up my second battery as you recommended. I've got both balances plugged in with the batteries in series. Only thing is. It's charging at less than a half amp... It has been charging now for over 2 hours. Am I doing something wrong? I have it all setup the same way as the single battery with the exception of the total voltage and cell count. Any ideas would be appreciated. I am mostly just worried I am charging them for too long and risking a fire.

Thanks,

SHiFT

[Andje]

no; there is no such thing as charging for too long, only charging too high. With the hyperion you should be able to have good peace of mind for charging your lipo; it's almost certainly the safest method there is, and there is really no chance of fire if your batts have never been mistreated and you never leave them unobserved for more then about an hour. If you drained a cell past 2v or were charging without the balance taps then things could get wonky, but I have done both these things accidentally and have been lucky with my lipo not puffing or burning. It's like when you are riding; with vigilance and following the rules you are in a very safe realm.
Now, if you are charging your batts to 48v you should be able to get up to about 10 amps of charge current (550w/50w=11 amps~). You could be restricting it either in the charge settings under your primary menu; there is a digital setting for max amps, or it could be that your powersupply isn't capable of putting out enough power to get your hyperion to it's 550w charge max. What PSU are you using?