Dee Jay's Precious Cargo Bike !

[Sacman]

First thing that I thought about when I saw your PCB was that structurally... it resembles a "rolling bridge". Bending moment forces on structural members on bridges are highest at midspan. So I hope your connections at the middle (where you joined both bikes) are good and strong. When they cut Lincoln Town Cars in half and add a section in the middle to make a sretch limosine they also normally beef up the frame members at the middle. Since you've been riding it now for a while you should be okay but for your kids sake... keep an eye on the frame parts towards the middle.

BTW Jay, it's been a few years and I admit I haven't kept track of your ebike exploits what happened to the Giant Revive and the 408 and 406 motors?

[Dee Jay]

First thing that I thought about when I saw your PCB was that structurally... it resembles a "rolling bridge". Bending moment forces on structural members on bridges are highest at midspan. So I hope your connections at the middle (where you joined both bikes) are good and strong. When they cut Lincoln Town Cars in half and add a section in the middle to make a sretch limosine they also normally beef up the frame members at the middle. Since you've been riding it now for a while you should be okay but for your kids sake... keep an eye on the frame parts towards the middle.

OakenTaco.jpg (87.57 KiB) Viewed 229 times

it resembles a "rolling bridge". Bending moment forces on structural members on bridges are highest at midspan

Huh? Engrish Prease..

My main concern is the red circle under the seat, a plain bolt (one of three bolts that's holds the two angled irons together) and only jammed up against the seat tube. I will eventually weld the angled irons together and weld a support piece to help the bolt when i find a good welder , I want it welded good, structurally and aesthetically

And the other red circle is the MTB's frame, it could taco so I'm keeping and eye on it. Again, more support pieces need to be welded there as the kids gain weight. I used a front axle through it so it should be pretty tough, but I'll be keeping an eye on it as well.

The lateral support beams are solid. Besides, I ride easy with the kids.

In the blue circle, that's pretty solid! I'm proud of that little improv, I'lll show you a close-up soon.

I appreciate your concern. After all, the cargo is precious, right? It's why I wanna start steering from the rear and have my weight right over the rear axle. I'm nearly 200 lbs of pure muscle and bones. I can whip knoxie and Luke double teamed on me, easy peasy.

Only kidding guys! I'm a skinny bloke
but I ain't no one's bitch ha ha!

[Sacman]

OakenTaco.jpg

it resembles a "rolling bridge". Bending moment forces on structural members on bridges are highest at midspan

Huh? Engrish Prease.. !

Lol... I'm sorry, that's the way I have to talk at work and I sometimes I forget to leave that hideous language back at the office (I'm a Civil Engineer). But I'm glad you did get the jist of what I was saying, and yes those two angled irons between the 2 bike frames does help you out quite a lot (thanks for showing the blowup pic). When you do get those welded you should be fine. A few more cross-bracing support couldn't hurt.

So you eventually gonna put a motor on the PCB or keep it a push bike? Where's the old 408 and 406?

[Dee Jay]

So you eventually gonna put a motor on the PCB or keep it a push bike? Where's the old 408 and 406?

I have many projects floating around in my head and I was waiting for something to form, something I can obsess about cos it's the only way I can get started. Flights of fancy type of projects has slowly dropped down on my To Do List, I generally lost a lot of my creative spirit after the disaster last march. I'm trying to get the motivation back but I think I'm more in a survival mode than the arts mode so the Altermotor I was gonna use on the Revive is gonna have to wait. The 408 WAS gonna go on the PCB maybe as a mid drive but along came the vacuum motor so I'm have to try that first. I get the feeling it'll burn out, that'll give me the chance to try my hand at rewinding a small motor as opposed to a crystalyte 4011. I shouldn't have messed with the 4011.

DAMN I miss my Dual Crystalyte Revive setup! I didn't care when people told me it was heavy. All the weight was low and on the wheels, the frame bears no weight other than me and my boy, battery pack, and groceries. To top it off, dual motors LOOKED SIMPLY AWESOME.

Two reasons I changed the DCR setup...

1) I wanted more speed by using the 408 at the rear and some sort of high speed can sized motor and freewheel at the fork bcos

2) Some people already know how I feel about "torque arms".. hate em.. especially on the fork, hub motors are dangerous on the fork even with torque arms IMO, it's why I wanted a chain drive, not the 408.

OK hub lovers, watch your dainty little toes...my biggest gripe about these hub kits is you have to fab your own torque arms. fck-tht-sht. These hub motors have to be redesigned to eliminate the need for torque arms. I have ideas but I'm not gonna tell bcos you know the drill someone here's gonna run off with it, make some money, then laugh in your face.

Excuse the negative tone, I'm not good at sugarcoating

[Dee Jay]

So you eventually gonna put a motor on the PCB or keep it a push bike? Where's the old 408 and 406?

Oh ya, I forgot to answer your question about the clyte motors, the 408 is still on the Revive fork and the 4011 is in pieces .

I still hope to use the 4011 rear axle and hub on 408 stator, turn that sucker into a mid drive on the revive. <--- because you know how I feel about them dreaded torque arms, right? And if I can make it look good maybe I'll also do the Revive extension 20 to 26" rear wheel conversion.. MUST. GET. MORE. RAAAAANGE.

The thing holding me back is that 408 axle won't budge. I can apply heat with a torch but I'm afraid to melt the stator's enamel. It's all up in the air. In limbo...We'll see...

Anyway, this is what I see in my crystalyte ball

[amberwolf]

wouldn't it be better if you got it really cold so it contracts?

[Dee Jay]

wouldn't it be better if you got it really cold so it contracts?

heat or cold? you know I've always been fuzzy about that...

I guess I pictured cracking the rust that's fused between the pieces as the metals expand.

how would you apply extreme cold without freon?

[ohzee]

Your bike looks awesome Dee Jay. I am very impressed with what you have done.
Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Dee Jay]

Your bike looks awesome Dee Jay. I am very impressed with what you have done.
Thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks dude! I seem to approach almost everything I do from an artistic perspective first, efficiency and practicality BE DAMNED.

My latest addition to the PCB is the hip tool bag at the front

[amberwolf]

wouldn't it be better if you got it really cold so it contracts?

heat or cold? you know I've always been fuzzy about that...

I guess I pictured cracking the rust that's fused between the pieces as the metals expand.

how would you apply extreme cold without freon?

Well, I haven't actually done very much with interference fit of things, so I might be wrong--heat might be what you want. But if you want to make it cold, it's possible that just putting it in the freezer for a few hours might do it.

Or you could get some dry ice and pack it in that in an ice chest.

For really extreme, find some place that will let you play with their liquid nitrogen.

[Dee Jay]

wouldn't it be better if you got it really cold so it contracts?

heat or cold? you know I've always been fuzzy about that...

I guess I pictured cracking the rust that's fused between the pieces as the metals expand.

how would you apply extreme cold without freon?

Well, I haven't actually done very much with interference fit of things, so I might be wrong--heat might be what you want. But if you want to make it cold, it's possible that just putting it in the freezer for a few hours might do it.

Or you could get some dry ice and pack it in that in an ice chest.

For really extreme, find some place that will let you play with their liquid nitrogen.

I had a local shop engineer use his industrial strength hydraulic press but still couldn't do it. I had already told him which way to push the axle but I didn't see HOW he was actually doing it cos he didn't invite up to the loft where the press was so maybe he got confused and was pressing back in You try to do things the right way, throw money at projects but some things still doesn't work out. I'll just have to improvise again, go for broke and do it myself when the time is right. I'm hoping to find a used bottle jack at a junk shop and some sort of a concrete space wide enough to jam it between, but no luck with the jack. I'll also try the torch on the axle and a temp guage on stator to monitor it before the varnish melts.
thx for the tips!

[amberwolf]

I would expect the press to push it out no matter which way it was done. But he would have to have it set up with a tube around the axle on one end for one side of the press to push on the stator, and the axle on the other side of the press. I wonder if he maybe just put the axle itself between the two sides of the press, in wich case it would do nothing but maybe bend the axle.


Or maybe they welded it in at the factory?

[Dee Jay]

tube around the axle on one end for one side of the press to push on the stator, and the axle on the other side of the press.

that's how he had it, he even cut a piece of tube from his own stock of tubes. after about 15 mins of trying he gave up but didn't charge me, cool guy.

I would expect the press to push it out no matter which way it was done.

Ya I'm surprised he didn't destroy it ,I was listening from downstairs and I heard the tube pop off several times.

I doubt it's welded.

I don't mind destroying the 408 axle, I won't have use for it. maybe some sort of controlled destruction is the best method.

[Sacman]

So you eventually gonna put a motor on the PCB or keep it a push bike? Where's the old 408?

2) Some people already know how I feel about "torque arms".. hate em.. especially on the fork, hub motors are dangerous on the fork even with torque arms IMO, it's why I wanted a chain drive, not the 408.

Oh too bad... I have a front 408 hubmotor (that I don't know I'm going to do with) and was I was going to donate it to you for the PCB. I made the switch over to geared hubmotors about 3 years ago on my 3rd ebike build and have never looked back to DD hubmotors. They're smaller, lighter and have way more torque than DD's, and I luv that they freewheel allowing you to pedal without all the drag that DD's have.

...my biggest gripe about these hub kits is you have to fab your own torque arms. fck-tht-sht. These hub motors have to be redesigned to eliminate the need for torque arms.

I myself don't have any problems with hubmotors. I've always understood most bike frames have dropouts that were never really designed to handle high axle torque generated by hubmotors to begin with. So I have no problems with beefing up the frames by having to custom fab a torque arm. It's waaaaay easier and lot less hassle than trying to figure out the complicated gearing, multiple chains and sprockets, or trying to fab custom brackets (that required much more critical alignment) when making a mid-drive or RC setup.

[Dee Jay]

So you eventually gonna put a motor on the PCB or keep it a push bike? Where's the old 408?

2) Some people already know how I feel about "torque arms".. hate em.. especially on the fork, hub motors are dangerous on the fork even with torque arms IMO, it's why I wanted a chain drive, not the 408.

Oh too bad... I have a front 408 hubmotor (that I don't know I'm going to do with) and was I was going to donate it to you for the PCB. I made the switch over to geared hubmotors about 3 years ago on my 3rd ebike build and have never looked back to DD hubmotors. They're smaller, lighter and have way more torque than DD's, and I luv that they freewheel allowing you to pedal without all the drag that DD's have.

...my biggest gripe about these hub kits is you have to fab your own torque arms. fck-tht-sht. These hub motors have to be redesigned to eliminate the need for torque arms.

I myself don't have any problems with hubmotors. I've always understood most bike frames have dropouts that were never really designed to handle high axle torque generated by hubmotors to begin with. So I have no problems with beefing up the frames by having to custom fab a torque arm. It's waaaaay easier and lot less hassle than trying to figure out the complicated gearing, multiple chains and sprockets, or trying to fab custom brackets (that required much more critical alignment) when making a mid-drive or RC setup.

Good of you to think of me, six-million-dollar-thanks! (Inflation you know...)

Don't get me wrong, I love the hub motor idea. I can see a future when hubmotor wheels are the norm. And I appreciate what entrepreneurs have done so far, but we can't stagnate, we gotta keep developing and innovating, see past the investments and ROI, and find the faults and improve on them. Phase out the old and phase in the new and improved. Not just hub motors, but also forks or even the whole frame. It's why I love the Giant Revive and Bike E. and that guy who built the roller suit. The problem with entrepreneurs is they can't see past the dollar signs in their eyes and see what this world needs and offering them. It's "Me First". Not to mention the people who overstocked with too many hubs. they get all up in arms with their degrees and paycheck stubs when people like me have an opinion, No thinking allowed here.. they're also too busy and too much to protect to see the future.

And this obsession with speed goes nowhere and fast. Take that balancing scooter for example. Not fast. Not powerful. But is it Useful? Hell yes.


And if it isn't being done already, I can also see a future with made-to-order business. Custom Made products. Just answer the questionnaire and specs and get a one-off product at reasonable prices. Reasonable Prices.. a snowballs' chance in hell.... I read an article long ago about how companies like Nike was gonna start this. We have the technology to do this now.

"we have teh Technology" - Oscar Goldman
Hey, remember when The Six Million Dollar Man was made in the 70's? Imagine the kind of technologies $6M can buy in those days...

[Dee Jay]

been going on long rides on the PCB regularly and lovin' it. I have it set to 7th gear on stop and go traffic to get max exercise, I can feel my legs developing again. Best part is the reactions and attention we get (PCB and I). Though we can't compete with the skateboarding dog!

OH and I tore off the banana seat and sissy bar's original plastic packaging material. The banana seat has beautiful sparkling confetti in the vinyl and the sissy bar chrome is looking really good! I'm gonna try to relocate or maybe lower the panniers to highlight the seat and bar.

And did I mention the attention we get? spring fever is a helluva drug..

update pics soon!

[Dee Jay]

Last night took a quick ride to the store on the PCB for some skittles and Arizona Iced Tea, had my headphones on listening to the Sandinista album by the Clash. parked the bike and power-walked through the sliding doors and noticed a chubby guy muttering something to me in the corner of my eye. I couldn't hear him plus I gotz to git ma Skitz n Zona on I so ignored him. A few minutes later I was out by the bike and the very same guy walked out with his wife and two little girls and asked me about the bike. Their eyes roamed trying to make sense of what they're seeing. Perhaps they thought it was all-show-no-go. I took a few minutes to explain what I've done but bowed out respectfully and took off with a gring-gring on my bell and they were utterly amazed at how functional and solid the PCB was and the little girls all giddy..

Making people's day makes My Day.It inspired me to keep working on it.

Rear steering coming soon!