Aprilia Enjoy

[tonyontopofabighill]

I have laughed when reading adverts for these bikes where sellers have said that they can be ridden like a normal bike when the battery goes flat..Yeah right..they can only be ridden with a flat battery when you are on dead flat ground with a tailwind or going downhill.


Tony.

[drekkus]

The battery is getting better, I now get 5 minutes use out of it . It makes it hard to get a decent impression of the pedal assist but I can certainly see the attraction of throttle control.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Drekkus,

I used my Aprilia's with the pedal assist for about 4 years and quite enjoyed them.The only time it wasn't much fun was going up big hills when the motor would stop working and the LED display would start bipping at me.I found all I had to do was turn the ignition off and on again and I would be on my way again.It was also a bit irritating having the pedal assist cutting in and out all the time .The only other situation with the pedal assist was going into a headwind,it would cut in and out then as well and it made riding a bit tedious.
That is all in the past now. The first thing I did was to change the controller and get a throttle.I kept the original battery and used this system for about 2 years. It worked much better than the standard set up but in the end the battery got a bit tired so I made the change just recently to the LIPO battery. Wow! what a difference! The bike is now great fun to ride and I look forward to every outing.

Cheers,
Tony.

[drekkus]

G'day Drekkus,


That is all in the past now. The first thing I did was to change the controller and get a throttle.I kept the original battery and used this system for about 2 years. It worked much better than the standard set up but in the end the battery got a bit tired so I made the change just recently to the LIPO battery. Wow! what a difference! The bike is now great fun to ride and I look forward to every outing.

Cheers,
Tony.

Unless the battery is dead my wife won't let me modify it so I have to make an attempt to revive it. I have ordered a controller already just in case I'm partial to to thumb throttle but where to you put it on the handle bars; right or left ?
In regards to a new battery I'd want to keep it simple otherwise I'll get complaints about how easy it is to use. Keep the original case. Would staying 24v rather than 36v make it easier to fit in new batteries.? Speed wouldn't be the main consideration, range would be.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Drekkus,

I'll let the other guys fill you in on the electrics side of things. i just followed what the others have done with the batteries,controller etc.I have got a twist grip throttle like a motorcycle and it is the same as on a motorcycle, it is on the right side of the handlebars.
If you look through the posts you will see how Samd has worked out how to use the original battery box. i have done this and it works a treat.Hopefully you will get your battery going and you may not have to do any mods to your bike.

Cheers,
Tony.

PS I was going to get the bike you got off ebay if you had not bid on it.I had been in contact with the seller and they were going to bring it to NSW on their next caravaning trip.I am glad someone on here got it in the end.

[drekkus]

G'day Drekkus,

I'll let the other guys fill you in on the electrics side of things. i just followed what the others have done with the batteries,controller etc.I have got a twist grip throttle like a motorcycle and it is the same as on a motorcycle, it is on the right side of the handlebars.
If you look through the posts you will see how Samd has worked out how to use the original battery box. i have done this and it works a treat.Hopefully you will get your battery going and you may not have to do any mods to your bike.

Cheers,
Tony.

PS I was going to get the bike you got off ebay if you had not bid on it.I had been in contact with the seller and they were going to bring it to NSW on their next caravaning trip.I am glad someone on here got it in the end.

Yeah, I've been looking at some of the stuff thats been done wrt the batteries and I think I'm getting the general idea. As for the throttle I was asking because the gear selector is on the right hand side and I was wondering how it all fitted together as space seems like it would get tight.

We were meant to bid on the bike the first time around but stuffed up our times and missed out. There was lots of humming and haring about spending that much money on something which might not work. Even if the battery does turn out stuffed it does look like its still a good buy given you don't have to rely on buying another original battery. Regardless there will come a time when you will have to replace the battery.

[tonyontopofabighill]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I moved the gear shifter to the left side of the handlebars and learnt to change gears in reverse ,only took a short time to get used to that.I used to ride motorcycles so that is why I did that.Maybe the thumb throttle is the way to go as an alternative.
I have never priced a new standard battery but I have heard that you need to mortgage your house to afford one.You could just replace the NMH batteries inside the battery box but they are pretty pricey.The LIPO batteries are way lighter than the NMH unit as well.

[Hillhater]

A new replacement NiMh pack from the Aprilia agents was $1100 + at last time of asking !
Thumb throttle can be squeezed in on the RH side with the shifter grip and seems very intuitive after a few min's.

[drekkus]

Still no joy with the battery. Charges up for about an hour and half but just dies very quickly when in use. Looks like the the LiPo option is becoming the way to go. I have opened up the battery case and all the wires look good.
As for the throttle I guess I can just buy one and see which way fits best for me.Its not as if they are expensive.

[drekkus]

I've noticed that most are going for 36v over 24v LiPo. Whats the advantage of this ? Anything really wrong with staying 24v ? I've looked at these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 0C%5F.html
which whilst only 24v seem to be a good fit for the battery box without too much hacking being needed. Anyone see any problem with 2 of these in parallel .

[Samd]

More volts means more speed. And most 24v controllers will cut out at 21.5 volts, so you will not get to use all your amp hrs.

8s, which is 33.6 volts is great. You will save a fortune in petrol.

[gtadmin]

I've noticed that most are going for 36v over 24v LiPo. Whats the advantage of this ? Anything really wrong with staying 24v ? I've looked at these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 0C%5F.html
which whilst only 24v seem to be a good fit for the battery box without too much hacking being needed. Anyone see any problem with 2 of these in parallel .

Hi drekkus, welcome to the aussie Aprilia owners club Where do you hail from mate?

It depends on whether you are going to ride the bike at 50km/h everywhere or not! If that's the speed you want, then 8S is the way to go. If not, then 6S will get you about 38 tops. If this is ok, then I don't see the problem.

...
And most 24v controllers will cut out at 21.5 volts, so you will not get to use all your amp hrs
...

21.5 ÷ 6 = 3.58V While you CAN run these cells lower, why would you want to? And the packs drekkus has linked to are 8Ah, so 16Ah for 2 in parallel for a safe range of 30km

Cheers guys,
GT

[Samd]

Because if he uses a 6s cell on a 21.5 volt cutout (could be as low as 21.0V based on the stated tolerance) he will take his packs below 3.7volts and they either won't last, or cook his balls. Or both.

[drekkus]

I've noticed that most are going for 36v over 24v LiPo. Whats the advantage of this ? Anything really wrong with staying 24v ? I've looked at these http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 0C%5F.html
which whilst only 24v seem to be a good fit for the battery box without too much hacking being needed. Anyone see any problem with 2 of these in parallel .

Hi drekkus, welcome to the aussie Aprilia owners club Where do you hail from mate?

It depends on whether you are going to ride the bike at 50km/h everywhere or not! If that's the speed you want, then 8S is the way to go. If not, then 6S will get you about 38 tops. If this is ok, then I don't see the problem.

...
And most 24v controllers will cut out at 21.5 volts, so you will not get to use all your amp hrs
...

21.5 ÷ 6 = 3.58V While you CAN run these cells lower, why would you want to? And the packs drekkus has linked to are 8Ah, so 16Ah for 2 in parallel for a safe range of 30km

Cheers guys,
GT

The bike is primarily not for me. 50kmh would be far too fast for the intended users, even I would baulk at those speeds on a bike. About half the intended route is dirt roads so speed isn't the big concern. Anything around the 20-30kmh would be fine. Its range which is important as its a 15km round trip which may become more in the future. I can hear the complaints now if it died on the way home

I know what you're saying about the cut out being potentially a bit too low but don't you still get the same problem with the 36v packs. You will always have to monitor things to be safe.

The other thing that attracts me to the 24v packs I've linked to is that they look like they would be a snug fit in the battery box with only minimal filing out. I could do some hacking to fit different batteries but at this stage I rather avoid it to keep the peace.

[Hillhater]

Still no joy with the battery. Charges up for about an hour and half but just dies very quickly when in use. Looks like the the LiPo option is becoming the way to go. I have opened up the battery case and all the wires look good.
As for the throttle I guess I can just buy one and see which way fits best for me.Its not as if they are expensive.

did you check individual cell voltages ?
I am guessing there is a lot of variation in their state of charge and will need individual balancing. That should "rejuvinate" these NiMh cells. ..they take a lot of abuse before they are useless !!
Oh, i would suggest you dump the controller and "pedelec" / torque sensor systems first. You would be surprised how much more performance there is when all those are eliminated ...even with 24 volts
Lipo is great ( 40+v), but you will not be able to... "plug and forget" ... charge like you can with the original NiMh pack.

[drekkus]

Still no joy with the battery. Charges up for about an hour and half but just dies very quickly when in use. Looks like the the LiPo option is becoming the way to go. I have opened up the battery case and all the wires look good.
As for the throttle I guess I can just buy one and see which way fits best for me.Its not as if they are expensive.

did you check individual cell voltages ?
I am guessing there is a lot of variation in their state of charge and will need individual balancing. That should "rejuvinate" these NiMh cells. ..they take a lot of abuse before they are useless !!
Oh, i would suggest you dump the controller and "pedelec" / torque sensor systems first. You would be surprised how much more performance there is when all those are eliminated ...even with 24 volts
Lipo is great ( 40+v), but you will not be able to... "plug and forget" ... charge like you can with the original NiMh pack.

How do I individually balance them. ? They are all in a plastic wrap. Is it a matter of unwrapping and unsoldering ?

My preference would be to dump the controller. I don't like the way it cuts in and out, not smooth enough for my liking. But unless the battery is dead then I'm not allowed to do that just yet .

[Hillhater]

No need to separate or unsolder the cells , just need to peel enough plastic rap off at the cell joints so you can poke a metal probe in to check voltage, & balance etc.
Start by checking each "stick" of 5 cells to track down the worst cells, then narrow it down to individual cells.
You will need a single cell charger to boost the lowest ones.
A 24v /36v controller is <$20 ..go for it !

[drekkus]

No need to separate or unsolder the cells , just need to peel enough plastic rap off at the cell joints so you can poke a metal probe in to check voltage, & balance etc.
Start by checking each "stick" of 5 cells to track down the worst cells, then narrow it down to individual cells.
You will need a single cell charger to boost the lowest ones.
A 24v /36v controller is <$20 ..go for it !

Well each stick of cells is reading the same on my old crappy ( and not very accurate) digital meter - 5.4v on each stick. My analogue meter is giving me around 28v overall for the pack when its charged. Time to invest in a new meter. It does seem that I can ride a bit further each time I charge it . I can now get around 3km out of a full charge whereas at the beginning it was barely 1km. Thats now enough to take the dog on a decent run

[drekkus]

As an update I've taken the bike for a few proper rides to see how it goes under real conditions. One trip I managed around 9km but the others have been more around 7km before the battery gives up. Hills sees the battery indicator drop fairly quickly but recover once I'm on the flat again. Also towards the end the battery indicator might be showing half or greater but you feel like theres hardly any power. I'll keep preserving with the battery but I suspect this is as good as its going to get which is good enough for taking the dogs on a run but a trip into the nearest town and back is just not feasible , thats about 12km. Other than that , the bike seems really well made and I like the idea of a battery powered bike as I might actually get some fitness back this way.Theres enough assistance to make getting up some of the hills bearable. The downside is that i find the bike virtually unrideable once the battery is dead. How hot should the motor be getting ?

[Hillhater]

With the stock controller and 24v battery, i doubt the motor should ever get hot...warm at best.
Running 1200W through mine and the motor is never more than just warm.
PS: ..after i "revived" my stock NiMh pack, i could get over 20km from it.

[drekkus]

With the stock controller and 24v battery, i doubt the motor should ever get hot...warm at best.
Running 1200W through mine and the motor is never more than just warm.
PS: ..after i "revived" my stock NiMh pack, i could get over 20km from it.

I'm finding its getting quite hot, you wouldn't want to hold it too long.It does seem to be after its gone up a hill in most cases otherwise its just warm. Something to worry about or am I just pushing it too hard ?

I'm still working on "reviving" mine . 7km is far better than the 1km I started with and this is mostly on gravel roads which is not ideal. However I do believe in the end it will come to a change of battery to get the range to make the bike truly useful.I would need at least 15km as a safe range.No point in only getting halfway back

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Drekkus,

I live on a big mutha of a hill and that is what I face on my return journey. As I said earlier I have got the new lipo set up and my motor gets quite hot and I guess it is because I go for a really quick ride of about 20 klms return and I really ride hard so I am using full throttle most of the time as well.I have been doing that now for a while on both of my bikes and everything seems okay.They don't seem to mind getting hot. As I also said these bikes are useless if the battery goes flat.I have pushed my home on the old NMH batteries on several occasions.I found a trick was to use the throttle (which you don't have yet) to make it easier to push up hills as there always seemed to be enough power left in the battery for this task.A word of warning though, I was getting quite fit when I had the NMH setup as I had to work harder.Now with the lipo's I tend to use the power most of the time and the waist line is increasing again.

Cheers,
Tony.

[drekkus]

G'day Drekkus,

I live on a big mutha of a hill and that is what I face on my return journey. As I said earlier I have got the new lipo set up and my motor gets quite hot and I guess it is because I go for a really quick ride of about 20 klms return and I really ride hard so I am using full throttle most of the time as well.I have been doing that now for a while on both of my bikes and everything seems okay.They don't seem to mind getting hot. As I also said these bikes are useless if the battery goes flat.I have pushed my home on the old NMH batteries on several occasions.I found a trick was to use the throttle (which you don't have yet) to make it easier to push up hills as there always seemed to be enough power left in the battery for this task.A word of warning though, I was getting quite fit when I had the NMH setup as I had to work harder.Now with the lipo's I tend to use the power most of the time and the waist line is increasing again.

Cheers,
Tony.

My big hills are on the return trip. There one quite long steep one right at the start ( great coming in though) and a couple of steep short ones after that. I'm having no problem getting in but I'm only getting , if I'm lucky, up the 1st one on the way back. Its leaving me about 4km short unless I'm really conservative with the pedal assist level on the way in and take a break for say 15 - 20 minute once in. I have managed to get within 2km of home doing that. Its a 6km trip in with about a 50/50 split of gravel & bitumen.
Its good to know that the motor can take getting hot.
This is the first time in years that I have cycled any decent distance and I am feeling it but it has to be doing me some good. I've just gotten too unfit for my own good. I doubt I would have been doing it without the pedal assist to get me started.Even with the throttle I still see myself pedalling.At the moment I'm doing 10-15km a day. One of the advantages of living semi rural is less traffic and great scenery. And to think We bought this bike for my daughter who doesn't really want to ride it.

[gtadmin]

Because if he uses a 6s cell on a 21.5 volt cutout (could be as low as 21.0V based on the stated tolerance) he will take his packs below 3.7volts and they either won't last, or cook his balls. Or both.

Sam, he won't at 3.6V - LiPo is fine down to around 3.3V although I would never recommend it and only take mine down to 3.8V. FWIW, I run the 8S on a 21V cutout but I also monitor my cell voltages.

...
The bike is primarily not for me. 50kmh would be far too fast for the intended users, even I would baulk at those speeds on a bike. About half the intended route is dirt roads so speed isn't the big concern. Anything around the 20-30kmh would be fine. Its range which is important as its a 15km round trip which may become more in the future. I can hear the complaints now if it died on the way home

I know what you're saying about the cut out being potentially a bit too low but don't you still get the same problem with the 36v packs. You will always have to monitor things to be safe.

The other thing that attracts me to the 24v packs I've linked to is that they look like they would be a snug fit in the battery box with only minimal filing out. I could do some hacking to fit different batteries but at this stage I rather avoid it to keep the peace.

I don't see a problem with 6S then. I use at most 5.8Ah and as little as 2.2Ah out of my pack on a 15km round trip with light to medium pedalling. I probably ride at 25-30km/h on the flat, all the while feathering the throttle.

Pity I have only just seen where you live, I was down that way last weekend and could've had a yarn, oh well.

Cheers,
GT

[tonyontopofabighill]

Another one on ebay.No prizes for guessing where it is....VIC... of course.Has the good old battery issue again.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjo ... 143wt_1206