battery comparison for noob

[staft]

Hi,
I've been lurking for awhile, but want to ask the experts for some advice.

I want to do a conversion, but the new technical information, although fascinating, is overwhelming. A major purchase will be batteries, LiFePo4 most likely. I hear you guys laud Pings, but I am wondering if these much cheaper packs are comparable? Any experience with them, or red flags to look for? (I will post link to same V, Ah Ping for comparison).

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the- ... ate/Detail
http://www.joyfay.com/us/48v-20ah-lifep ... -2575.html

And while I'm asking, am I wise to go 48V? I weigh 240, and have a 10 mile rt commute mostly flat. But speed, extra range for weekends would be nice to have.

My thanks - I am a teacher, and know how trying newbie questions can get.
Steven

[Ypedal]

Welcome to ES !

Stick with the Ping... you have a much better chance of getting a working pack on delivery.

48v 20ah is a BIG BRICK.... consider getting 2x 24v packs and putting them in series. easier to split up the bulk, in panier or saddle bags,... or one in the frame 2nd on a rear rack.

[staft]

Thanks, ypedal!

[granolaboy]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36662

[staft]

Oops - I had searched the forum but somehow missed this - thanks, granolaboy.

[neptronix]

Go with ping.
When you have problems ( if ever ), you'll actually get good service.
They are priced well considering how well they are built, how long they last, etc.

Make sure you do not exceed the 2C rate though, try to stay under it.

So for example, if you have a 10AH ping, then your 2C rate is 20A.
If you have a 15AH ping, your 2C rate is 30A.
..and so forth.

[wesnewell]

That's a huge price difference. Assuming shipping is the same, I'd buy the cheaper one. And I like the idea of the external BMS too, so i could easily just bypass it. But I use lipo, so....

[999zip999]

Ping has customer support and better cells. I would run a 48v15ah at 23amps. For less stress.

[Tench]

I purchased a 36v 20ah Ping battery for my first build with a Cyclone kit, it is set to a maximum of 35amps and it works very well and gives an easy 30 miles, it has worked flawlessly since we got it and we had good comunication during the buying process.

[999zip999]

My 5303 eat a lot of power at 40a, my bmc 600 eat less, 9c 2810 eats a lot less. So the motor combo and amps plus hills. Will help you get the right battery. What the motor setup ?

[999zip999]

Hickup?

[dogman]

I'm on the Pingbattery bandwagon too.

But whoah nelllie, lets get the horse before the cart. Pings are perfect for the typical motor kit, one up to 1000w, that uses a controller not over 25 amps. Get at least 15 ah of ping if you are looking a 20 amp controllers, the 10 ah ping is really best only for 15 amp controllers.

Typical results with a direct drive kit are 25 mph, 30 with some kits, and about 22 miles of range. That's with a 48v 15 ah battery.

Other batteries are much cheaper on ebay for instance. But sadly, they typicaly test out singnifcantly less capacity in reality. Even 25% less in not uncommon. Occasionally this can happen with a ping as well, but he's been doing buisness for more than 4 years now with an excellent track record for helping the customer fix a problem. Sending the battery back is of course not a good option, but ping will send new cells, new bms, new chargers, without giving you a runaround.

If you want a more powerfull motor, then you are looking at batteries with better discharge rates than ping. A123's for instance.

[DAND214]

Ping, by far the best plug and play. With the best support around.

Only thing wrong with Ping or his website is,
HE DOESN'T OFFER ANY STUFFED ANIMALS

Dan

[Kin]

He's supposed to offer stuffed animals o.O?

[999zip999]

Plus Ping will lenghten your wires if asked for a split pack on each side if needed. Or ? Plus get the 5a. charger. Do you have hills ?

[migueralliart]

.

[staft]

Are these animals stuffed with Lithium?

Thanks, all. I just started this process, and I'm already dragging in to work hopelessly sleep deprived from the hours I'm devoting to getting up to speed with this stuff (not an EV pun, I promise).

No motor or controller picked out, not even the right bike for conversion. I'm swimming in a sea of variables, if any of you remember a time like that.

[999zip999]

Match the hub motor and controler to the battery. So they will last.

[staft]

Florida is one big sand bar, mild hills at best. Heat and rain will be the biggest challenges.

I want to match motor, controller, and batts, for sure, once I have a better idea of what that means. Any recommendations for a first bike? I know this is probably salted throughout the forum, and I will continue to read, but some practical combo ideas would be welcome. Are the kits usually well-matched?

[wesnewell]

For only a 10 mile rt commute, you don't need much battery. 10ah of 12s lipo will get you about 20 miles at 20mph for $130.
26" bike $??
48V 1000W DD motor kit $275 About 28 mph top speed on 12s lipo.
Lipo charger $40 and up.
Misc. $0 to $how vane you are.

[dogman]

Yes, people will go on and on how you can save money with lipo, yadda yadda. It's lighter. It's smaller.

It just depends on how much range you want. If you want about 20 miles range, then a 48v 15 ah ping remains a good choice.

It's very safe, you really don't hear of pingbattery fires. The only one I recall in many years was a guy who let a sharp edge in the battery box short one.

It should last. My first one took me 7000 miles, and only died because I finally made a dumb mistake.

48v 15 ah is small enough to fit in many bikes frame triangle, or if not, carries pretty good on rear racks. 15-16 pounds

It will run a "typical kit" just fine. A 20 amp controller will not harm one.

What kit to buy? Well, there are cheaper options for sure. But on a firt bike customer service might be more important that cheapest. E-BikeKit has a very complete kit, very well thought out, and very good CS. You'll be dealing with a USA company, shipping from the USA. I like the direct drive motors. If you put 48v on one, you get real world 1200 watts. It's a motor that is a clone, or at least very very similar to a 9 continent motor. Generally rear motor is best, but front is fine for street use, particularly on a beach cruiser or other non suspension bike.

[wesnewell]

Yes, people will go on and on how you can save money with lipo, yadda yadda. It's lighter. It's smaller.

It just depends on how much range you want. If you want about 20 miles range, then a 48v 15 ah ping remains a good choice.

It's very safe, you really don't hear of pingbattery fires. The only one I recall in many years was a guy who let a sharp edge in the battery box short one.

It should last. My first one took me 7000 miles, and only died because I finally made a dumb mistake.

48v 15 ah is small enough to fit in many bikes frame triangle, or if not, carries pretty good on rear racks. 15-16 pounds

It will run a "typical kit" just fine. A 20 amp controller will not harm one.

What kit to buy? Well, there are cheaper options for sure. But on a firt bike customer service might be more important that cheapest. E-BikeKit has a very complete kit, very well thought out, and very good CS. You'll be dealing with a USA company, shipping from the USA. I like the direct drive motors. If you put 48v on one, you get real world 1200 watts. It's a motor that is a clone, or at least very very similar to a 9 continent motor. Generally rear motor is best, but front is fine for street use, particularly on a beach cruiser or other non suspension bike.

Why I would never buy a 15ah ping for a 10 mile RT commute, or for anything else for that matter.
1. Cost. $533 + $?? for shipping from china.
2. Controller pulls 30A, stressing the battery and shortening its life.
3. Can go 10 miles on 5ah of lipo and not even come close to stressing it for about $70.

[dogman]

Do a cost per mile estimate some time. Include everything you need to charge and monitor discharges safely. Then consider how you can plug in your lifepo4 and go to bed.

But you are correct, I don't recomend pings for 30 amp controllers. Did he say that? I don't think so. If he wants a bat for a more powerful bike, I'd send him to cellman for an A123 pack.

To be clear, I recomend the ping for a typical kit. Usually they have 20 amp controllers that in fact are set to 22 amps.

[Ypedal]

Going lipo requires you factor in the cost of an RC charger, Power supply, Ballancers or various gizmos for voltage monitoring.. time and effort in making your own pack and wire harness.. learning the ropes and all that jazz...

There are ways around the complexities but the end user has to.. i repeaat.. HAS to learn about the specifics.. some people do not, and are not willing, or able to do this. for those people a Ping makes perfect sense.

[staft]

Going lipo requires you factor in the cost of an RC charger, Power supply, Ballancers or various gizmos for voltage monitoring.. time and effort in making your own pack and wire harness.. learning the ropes and all that jazz...

There are ways around the complexities but the end user has to.. i repeaat.. HAS to learn about the specifics.. some people do not, and are not willing, or able to do this. for those people a Ping makes perfect sense.

What are the best choices for a beginning LiPo kit, as regards charger, power supply, balancers, etc.? I am not too intimidated to consider going this route, but there is clearly much more to learn. I will now go research pack construction, but what would you all recommend for # of cells to power a 36V/48V DD motor, and what kind of controller would then be necessary?

As usual, my intention isn't to avoid the research. Although it is eating up huge amounts of my time. I am thoroughly addicted to the process already, but I am starting from the bottom tech wise, especially with electronics.