Kinni's E-bike questions and stuffs

[jkbrigman]

Fenders look like shit, but I have to have them on my commuting bikes. One day I noticed a dark spot ahead in the bike lane. I didn't realize till I rode through it how fresh that puddle of oil was. Soooo glad to have a front fender that day, goo all over the bike anyway, but at least my face stayed clean.

If you run a rear rack on your bike, rear fenders can be made from anything, and just attach to the frame and the bottom of the rack. I prefer a strip cut from closed cell foam fatigue mats, mostly since I found those on the roadside too.

dogman, your "road magic" is strong. I like to pick up and keep stuff I find. I have a good pair of pliers, a wrench and a bungee from Road Magic.

JKB

[Kinni420]

road junk can be great. I found a spin doctor bike tool 3456 mm allens, screwdrivers etc all in one.

heres a pic of my PSU completed and several charge and discharge harnesses just waiting for 4mm bullets. Mail is late today and expecting battery charger and the plugs. Guess I should just head out and get a beer and watch some march madness. GO CU!

[Kinni420]

so i get the charger and suddenly the PSU takes a big shit...

resistors get super hot an if i plug in charger everything shuts down

well this was a complete failure

got it to work....carefully watching the heat on the resistors.


seems everything is fine...just forgot to plug in the charger before turning on the PSU

LOL...i got the 4mm bullet connectors but i cant figure out what goes where! since I dont have the batteries yet I dont know which pole goes in which slot so I cant finish my harnesses....little help here?

[dogman]

Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. Nobody ever overstated the watts their ps really puts out continuously. Now you know why a lot of us like the meanwell ps.

Meanwhile, set the charger to a lower amp setting, and charge slower.

[Kinni420]

I knew you would post while I was preparing this! lol

anyways, ya I understand what ur saying about the PS. regardless. the connectors



Love the little AB Clip EPbuddy sent along with my order. Should do nicely to protect those fragile little JST connectors. Sorry pics so fuzzy notice the soldering iron burn (complete with solder!) in my keyboard

[jkbrigman]

LOL...i got the 4mm bullet connectors but i cant figure out what goes where! since I dont have the batteries yet I dont know which pole goes in which slot so I cant finish my harnesses....little help here?

"Black gets the jack" (socket)
"Red gets the head" (plug)

You can see an example here, on the large piece with the anderson connector on the serial discharge harness.

or the entire thread at:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36097&start=45#p540966
This also holds true for your parallel discharge harnesses and your parallel charging harness. When I made mine from white cheap extension cord, I marked the jacks with black heatshrink and the plugs with red.

The two jumpers each have one plug and one socket, so the rule does not apply there, the color of the jumper is irrelevant. All your "jumpers" in the serial harness will have one plug and one jack.

18S_harness.jpg (170.72 KiB) Viewed 443 times

Side note: There are people here who claim you don't need a harness to connect all your batteries in series. That's not true. You CAN connect the plastic battery connectors in series without the "jumpers" I show. But that doesn't get you from 4mm to an Anderson connector and it's a big, bad 3-dimensional mess. Even if you do decide not to make the short jumpers, you still need the piece I show with the Anderson connector.

making a temporary test battery.jpg (134.03 KiB) Viewed 443 times

As you can see in my image where I show the 3 LiPo packs in series, with jumpers, the connections become orderly, easy to manage and flat so they can be folded down against the packs. There's no twist or undue force on the LiPo brick pigtails. I had about 1/4" clearance in the box when I put this pack together and the cables fit beautifully.

JKB

[Kinni420]

completed harnesses

[Kinni420]

heres the bike finalized (minus the batteries )

[jkbrigman]

That frame bag looks great. Harnesses are made. So now you're waiting for LiPo?

I'm jealous. Now I want an upright bike. I need to find myself a good deal on a used mountain bike somewhere....Where's my $150 KLH?

JKB

[Kinni420]

WOOT LIPOS HAVE ARRIVED! charging now!

[Kinni420]

Very first test ride went great!.. did 2.6 miles with very little throttle (breaking in lipos) recharged (3 min each) went out for a slightly harder ride...2.6 miles again but more gas. 2810 is amazing in its torque...almost scared me a couple times lol.

funny thing is my CA registered 7.4 AH used but i never went below 69V....(I is a confuseled collije grad-u-ate)

even the graphs on logview only show me taking 2300 mAh.

now logview is broked.

Ill post pics and video when its light.

getting back to light discharges...cya

[Kinni420]

big ride to and from work.

18s1p, 7.5 miles, minor pedaling here and there, used 2.473 Ah, avg speed of 15, max 25 (haven't really got on it yet), 22.7 Wh/mi, 1.2% uphill slope (+550/-50 elev change)







passed a road biker in full "queer" gear, with a cig in my mouth, going uphill. I havent laughed that hard in years!

P.S. Its not my Rascal!

[Kinni420]

OK full speed test....just had to do this today after the 9th cycle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD56SDjr ... e=youtu.be

LOL omg

[dogman]

[jkbrigman]

big ride to and from work.
18s1p, 7.5 miles, minor pedaling here and there, used 2.473 Ah, avg speed of 15, max 25 (haven't really got on it yet), 22.7 Wh/mi, 1.2% uphill slope (+550/-50 elev change)
P.S. Its not my Rascal!

Dude! AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME!

Some comments:
1) Wow, your build is "clean" - the bike looks fantastic.
2) I'm impressed with the efficiency - really not that much more power consumption than my recumbent.
3) ROGER WILCO the torque of the 2810. Isn't that one heckuva motor?!?! I love my 2810. It ain't the fastest thing around, but I need a little torque these days.

Questions:
1) Looks like straight-up mountain bike knobbies - what pressure are you running?
2) Can you feel any resistance from the tires as they are, and are you thinking going with something more street later?
3) How's the batteries holding up? Are you able to do your mission with 18s1P?
4) Are you only balance-charging right now?
5) Have you put the bike to "full production" use yet - do you consider yourself done with testing?

Congrats!
JKB

[dogman]

For surely not the last time, the 2810 winding has no more torque than any other 9c or 9c clone winding. But out on a hill, if you are in a more efficient rpm than a 2807, then you waste less of your power with the slower winding.

It feels like more torque, and is more wattage to the rubber instead of seeing a big watt spike that only makes heat. On long cruises, the slower speed alone makes it go farther.

But 2810 IS a very slow motor for most people, For sure too slow in smaller wheels than 26" . Happily, Grin is now stocking a 2808. This may be an ideal motor for those that want slightly better hill climbing, but want more than 20 mph out of 48v.

I've found my 2810 the ideal motor for my longtail bike, where loads might be heavy and I desire a slower ride. Perfect for the longer distance rides.

[Kinni420]

Questions:
1) Looks like straight-up mountain bike knobbies - what pressure are you running?
2) Can you feel any resistance from the tires as they are, and are you thinking going with something more street later?
3) How's the batteries holding up? Are you able to do your mission with 18s1P?
4) Are you only balance-charging right now?
5) Have you put the bike to "full production" use yet - do you consider yourself done with testing?
JKB

answers:
if you look at this pic you'll see the tires are actually a street pattern with some side knobs. Never seen this tire before this. I feel no resistance at all from these, much more from the motor itself. I'm running at 65 psi with thorn resistant inner tubes. I need to get Goo put in the tubes and install liners for flat protection.



Batteries are holding up great, just have a small issue when balance charging pack #2 (takes a little longer, has a wierd spike at the end in cell 6 on the graph. I think I may have caught a dud) I can easily do my commute to work, recharge there slowly (I built 2 computer PSU's so I can charge at home and work only having to haul around my tiny little iCharger 106b+) I suspect that if I took it really easy, I could easily make it both ways (11 miles)



I did balance charge every cell for ten full cycles at 3 A or less (when Im at work I do them at 1.5A each and it finishes right before lunch break) last night I did all three on a bulk charge @ 5A (11th cycle). I really need a pigtail or a good balance harness.

I consider myself done with testing and have put the bike into full Go mode. I can easily hold around 24 mph @ 80% throttle using around 250 W on my commute. Very efficient machine. I definately lose some of that efficency when I screw around on the dirt trails nearby. Its still fairly cold here, but yesterday afternoon I went out and cranked on the motor and controller for a bit and nothing really got hot at all, just slightly warm to the touch (it was around 72 here yesterday). Still did 4 miles @ 1.6 Ah.

looking at the cost to build this bike today
bike itself - $16
forks - $86
Wife Kit from methods - $406
charger and connectors from EPbuddy - $96
batteries from HK - $144
soldering iron and other electrical supplies - $25

total cost ~ $733
Im sure theres a discrepancy of around 20 bucks somewhere but who cares!

[Kinni420]

just went on what i call a "high efficiency ride" lots of pedaling/coasting at a full charge to 4.15 per cell 18s -50+50 elev.

0.371 Ah 2.739 miles

[jkbrigman]

just went on what i call a "high efficiency ride" lots of pedaling/coasting at a full charge to 4.15 per cell 18s -50+50 elev.
0.371 Ah 2.739 miles

Wow! Now that's efficient! How was your speed?

Thanks for all the answers to the questions, you hit 'em on the nose and it was very, very helpful!
I realize now what those tires are, and not just badly worn mtn bike knobbies.

JKB

[jkbrigman]

For surely not the last time... ...<old guy crap here>....

"Maaaa...when I was a kid, we walked to school 10 miles in the snow, uphill both ways!..."

dogman, did you run out of sweet 'n low this mornin?

JKB

[Kinni420]

I think I read somewhere hes been sick

btw that ride was heavy pedaling averaging about 15 mph, total pedal assist. I wouldnt apply power unless i was pedaling and only enough to help along. Wanted to get a feel for what the Europeans have to go through

[Kinni420]

went on a big ride today. battery 2 seems to be leveling out and I may wait a bit before sending it back.
Climbed up a big singletrack but used most of my battery to get up there. I really need another 5 Ah. I got to the point of no return much sooner than I wanted too. Passed a bunch of mt bikers like they were standing still lol. Love my e-bike! 3.8 Ah used in 7 miles. Most of that was in the 1 mile climb of around 500 feet. Let the bike cool while I enjoyed a beer and the view on this fine spring day of 72 degrees. motor, batteries and controller got "warm".

forks really passed the "cheapo" test at a 5 out of 10. zero rebound dampening causes lots of harsh rebound when unloaded but the down is good enough. For a start, good enough. For the long run? Not really. But for a guy used to full rigid it was fun.

[jkbrigman]

I think I read somewhere hes been sick

btw that ride was heavy pedaling averaging about 15 mph, total pedal assist. I wouldnt apply power unless i was pedaling and only enough to help along. Wanted to get a feel for what the Europeans have to go through

Roger that. Schwinn has an ebike with the pedelec sensor on it. Riding that bike is nothing like the experience of what we've built - you have to push it pretty hard to get anything out of it, and then you don't really go that fast. But the bike is $999 at the LBS. Not bad, even if it dosen't have a CA and the battery is a 9AH LiMn.

JKB

[Kinni420]

WOW! super windy today. 27 mph steady with gusts to 40 from SW. My ride home is due west so I had the wind in my face most of the way home. Bike acted like I was climbing a big hill. Used 3.5 Ah in 5.5 miles ouch. Could barely keep the bike below 900 watts at any time. Still managed to keep the avg speed at 16 (normal pedal is about 9.5 pushing it hard).

Wrapped up the batteries in this fuzzy soft mesh stuff (used to keep rugs and futon matresses from slipping) and coated them with duct tape for added impact protection. Lined the bag I have with cut board (hard plastic mat made for cutting with an exacto knife) for superior puncture defense. Tried to make a battery box but the batteries wont fit in the bag with it in there. Im gonna try to shave some space somewhere for that.

How important is air supply for cooling around a lipo? Batteries didnt seem to get very hot on that high wattage ride home.

[dogman]

Lipo runs great hot. So don't worry about ambient temps in the 100's. If your ride is making it really hot, you need more ah. Toasty warm is fine though. Cooling is important to your controller though.

Guess I sounded bitchy the other day. The single most persistent mistruth about hub motors is that slow windings have more torque. But they sure feel that way to the rider, and are often sold as the torque model.

Not more torque, just less stall.

Bet it felt good to have a motor eh!