jonescg's NEW electric racebike pre-build thread!

[jonescg]

Today I thought I would start work on the battery pack compression jig. I noticed that the stack of cells was not quite square, so should I try to fit 5 or 6 stacks of these guys next to each other in a box, they will need to be pretty straight.

I needed some finished pine, so I had an excuse to break out the bike trailer! However, the tubes were flat, the tyres were badly degraded from the sunlight (they were at the dump for a while) and one of them was buckled. Step one was to ride to the dump and find a new, non-buckled wheel For $2 I scored another kid's bike with 16" wheels, but I left the bike there and kept the rim and tyre. Picked up a new tube and rode home, then repaired my trailer. One thing I did notice was just how much smoother the ride is now that the tyres aren't lopsided I guess kids bikes aren't designed for carrying 40 kg of crap at 40 km/h down a hill! Still, once you remove the reflectors they hum along nicely!

OK, so the pine was bought from our Home-Depot equivalent - Bunnings. They sell the cheapest shit, except building materials, which are a total arse raping rip-off. Good thing I only needed two bits of wood and a couple of brackets...



The idea is to make sure the cells are standing upright and are all perpendicular to the base boards. I figure two bits of wood, exactly 50 mm wide should serve as suitable guides for the box, and just held in place with clamps.



I will cut that back board down to the same height as the 50 mm blocks so I can ensure the PCBs are also square and so it's easier to get a couple of soldering irons in there. I had to modify my Weller so that it would take the hammerhead iron, but it seems to work perfectly. All that scrap steel in the background will become my pressure jig for holding the copper down snugly while I lay into it with two irons.

I reckon it would probably be easier to solder the HVC/LVC boards and balance wires after the copper blocks have been soldered on, because there would be too many wires in the way otherwise.

[SplinterOz]

Looks like a nice simple fail safe jig to ensure they are all square. I agree about the balance wires connecting them to the PCB would be much easier.

[jonescg]

I busted out the old buzz box and welded up a bit of a frame and "third finger" for soldering my 15 Ah packs together.

I start by loading the cells into the PCB one by one (in the right order). Since this will be one of 5 or 6 stacks of cells which sit next to each other, the stack beside this one will need to start with the opposite polarity to the one next to it.



Then I push them against the back wall, and with the other block on the right push them against the fixed side wall. This should ensure they all stand as vertical, and square as possible. Ignore that the pack is already built


When they look pretty straight, the front wall is added and the board is clamped in place. I'm using a quick clamp that goes across the top, but I wouldn't do this with my unsoldered pack. Rather, I'd have two clamps that go across the sides where I have a diagonal cut in the timber.

Now I can bend the tabs over in the right order and start to scuff the tabs and generously tin them, making sure that there is enough solder reaching the balance and LVC wire pads (not shown ). I start to lay the tinned copper bus bars down and hold them down with my new third finger. I'd weigh the finger down with a good 5 kg worth of steel or something.



Then lay into it with two red hot soldering irons till it sits down snugly on the tabs and PCB. Put the irons aside so you don't get burned, and chill the block with a sponge soaked in ice water.

And all that's left is to solder the balance leads and LVC/HVC harness in!

Now, if only Hobby King would hurry the frock up and restock with some more individual 5Ah, 40C LiPo!

[jonescg]

Hot diggity!
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=18562

Hmmm. Not many in stock though. Wonder why?

[jonescg]

Evo got back to me and suggested two options.

Running an AFM140-3 motor with a 360 V DC Bus and a Rhineheart PM100DXR inverter (which claims to be good for 400 V max)
or
Running an AFM140-5 motor with a 700 V DC Bus and a Rhineheart PM150DZ inverter (which is good for 720 V), but bigger and heavier than the PM100DXR. This option will be about 10-20% more powerful than option one, but means fitting a bulkier inverter.

A '360 V' pack can be made from 90S, 5P LiPo, while a 700 V pack can be made from 170S, 3P LiPo.

The lower voltage version is surely easier to find a charger for, and a hell of a lot less cells to play with. But more power is MORE POWER! What to do?

[Arlo1]

How much is the inverter?

[Nuts&Volts]

I'm still going to suggest a Tritium Wavesculptor 200. Much cheaper and you can still get over 100kW with maybe the 4 or 5-turn motor. The tritium has software to self learn the EVO too. Make a 112s 4p pack. depending on voltage sag you should be able to get 100-120kW out of it. Spend the $4000 on some forged wheels and new suspension on the bike to save weigh and improve handling.

I think I may have said this before in another post, sorry for the repeat

[jonescg]

And sound advice too, Kyle, but the Wavesculptor is freaking massive. It's half a metre long and would struggle to fit anywhere useful on the bike. A hot-rodded PM100DXR will fit snugly between the seat and the battery pack, and a PM150DZ would do the same, but extend an additional 120 mm down. The front of the pack will be where the radiator goes, so I can't fit it there, and the ducktail would fit a Rhineheart, but not a Wavesculptor.

Why does it have to be so big

Oh, and the Rhineheart PM150DZ costs $10,000. Wavesculptor is $6600. Which is better? I don't know, but I know which is smaller.

[bigmoose]

A 360 V dc bus is no slouch, but 700 V dc is a hairbreath from a kilo-volt... I think you start to enter an entire other world at KV territory safety wise. There is no room for any mistakes with kilo volt class busses.

[Nuts&Volts]

And sound advice too, Kyle, but the Wavesculptor is freaking massive. It's half a metre long and would struggle to fit anywhere useful on the bike. A hot-rodded PM100DXR will fit snugly between the seat and the battery pack, and a PM150DZ would do the same, but extend an additional 120 mm down. The front of the pack will be where the radiator goes, so I can't fit it there, and the ducktail would fit a Rhineheart, but not a Wavesculptor.

Why does it have to be so big

Oh, and the Rhineheart PM150DZ costs $10,000. Wavesculptor is $6600. Which is better? I don't know, but I know which is smaller.

Make a new rear subframe and slide the Tritium under the seat and tail, as far forward as you can. That's what my team did.

Or depending on how low your batteries go, put it on the very bottom of the bike.

[megacycle]

Those cells might look sexier and lighter in 6mm AS type X switchboard, black phenolic sheet, from Electrical Wholesalers. It's hard as nails,totally fireproof, can't bend it good for batteries under compression, but can be still fairly easily machined, putting 1mm fireproof lamininate between cells, would help keep compression to cell level.

With the copper bars, you can hang them up on coathanger wire through the holes and paint them with solder paste and hit them with a blow torch, with a welding glove on wipe them over with a wet cloth all over, they look like you bought em from the shop, pre tinned for joining to the tabs, with the sense wires, predrilled holes in pcb to loop under and thru onto the top to solder to take strain off, neater too.

Sorry, thoughts after the event, only just caught this thread, might already have heard them,if not hope they might be usefull.

[jonescg]

Hey all,

Not much to report now, except I have submitted another discovery grant to the ARC and will have to wait till June to know if I have a job next year. The likelihood of winning is 8 %, so I best start planning my future employment options now...

Anyone want to spot me a couple of grand? I'm a bit short for a bid on this beast:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-gsxr- ... _500wt_950

On the battery front, Full-Throttle has kindly drafted up some 3P and 5P boards for my ebike batteries and e-moto batteries respectively. They should be arriving early next week. The 5P boards will be used to build to 9S blocks and eventually into an epic 450 V pack hot from the charger. Best part is, they come with holes for soldering balance leads and methods boards in.

Not sure what to spend my money on, but I think a track bike is a good start. It will take 16 weeks for Evo to build a motor, and a similar amount of time to save up for $6k worth of LiPo. At least I can do track days at Wanneroo in the meantime.

[voicecoils]

Anyone want to spot me a couple of grand? I'm a bit short for a bid on this beast:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-gsxr- ... _500wt_950


Not sure what to spend my money on, but I think a track bike is a good start. It will take 16 weeks for Evo to build a motor, and a similar amount of time to save up for $6k worth of LiPo. At least I can do track days at Wanneroo in the meantime.

That bike looks sweet. I can lend you cash if you want to bid.

I agree the track bike, already setup to race, should be purchase #1.

[jonescg]

Dude, that is super generous of you!

I sent a message to the guy and said if it hasn't sold by the weekend, I would offer him $6500 in three weeks time. If it sells between now and then, it's my problem not his. I'll see what he comes back with. My lovely wife also offered to help out, so I'm sure it can be bought.

Just wait and see what happens tomorrow I guess

[voicecoils]

No worries

The auction ends in 1 hr 45 min. But, it's in VIC, not WA... is he cool to send it off w/ a motorcycle transport service?

[jonescg]

OK so the auction ended without a single bid. I wrote to him earlier saying I'd offer him $6500 in 3 weeks if it didn't sell, and he seemed to respond pretty positively. I might offer $7000 if he throws the tyre warmers and track stands in. Will call him tomorrow. I can get my friend Antti to pick it up for me. Another friend needs to move a motard over to Perth from Melbourne, so I'll arrange to move both bikes at the same time to save some dough.

I know ebay gets shitty when an item doesn't sell but payment is arranged outside (they miss out on their cut) but I had a legit reason - not enough money

Getting excited

[Philistine]

Best of luck with the research council bids, I have a few mates who are research scientists and they have relayed the trauma of the process to me on a few occasions.

I can lend you cash if you want to bid.

How good are Aussie mates eh? Voicecoils is a genuine aussie mate. Helping someone complete purchase on a track bike is exactly the sort of lunacy I love lending to mates for, so much more pleasurable than posting bond or helping head off a forecolsure. You're a good man Voicecoils.

Keeping fingers crossed you get the bike Chris, best of luck, and looking forward to seeing what you do with it. Cheers, Phil.

[jonescg]

Best of luck with the research council bids, I have a few mates who are research scientists and they have relayed the trauma of the process to me on a few occasions.

I can lend you cash if you want to bid.

How good are Aussie mates eh? Voicecoils is a genuine aussie mate. Helping someone complete purchase on a track bike is exactly the sort of lunacy I love lending to mates for, so much more pleasurable than posting bond or helping head off a foreclosure. You're a good man Voicecoils.

Keeping fingers crossed you get the bike Chris, best of luck, and looking forward to seeing what you do with it. Cheers, Phil.

And I best of all I have a loving wife who also offered to lend me money for a track bike. Now that is an achievement!
I don't think it's an Australian specific trait, and I'm not sure if Abraham can fully qualify as a genuine 'Aussie' mate yet, but a genuine mate - yep 110%

Actually, every clown I've met in person from this forum is a legend. Maybe it's the Sunday night pale ale talking... but I have had the profound pleasure of everyone's company - from Justin, Adam and Zoot Katz in Vancouver, Abraham and Tony (epic kudos to the pit crew), Toolman2, KiM, Matt and the Perth mob, and even your good self Phil... It's a damn pleasure.

Now, fingers crossed he is still happy to make a sale. Toes also crossed that Evo are still in business by the time I'm ready to order a motor...

[voicecoils]

How good are Aussie mates eh? Voicecoils is a genuine aussie mate. Helping someone complete purchase on a track bike is exactly the sort of lunacy I love lending to mates for, so much more pleasurable than posting bond or helping head off a forecolsure. You're a good man Voicecoils.

Keeping fingers crossed you get the bike Chris, best of luck, and looking forward to seeing what you do with it. Cheers, Phil.

Ha! I'm actually an American & a New Yorker living in Oz. We're the ones who are supposed to walk straight past frozen dead homeless people on a winter's night without breaking stride. Maybe the Aussie sun has started to get to me

Anyway I'm happy to help in a small way like this if needed... I wish I was in a position to simply give money away instead. One day!

[jonescg]

Guys, the bike is mine

He's totally cool with a lay-buy arrangement, so I shouldn't have to borrow anything. $7200 and he threw the tyre warmers in.

Very happy little e-moto-nerd here I should take ownership of it in about a month. So, any Melburnians got a road trip planned?

[Philistine]

Congratulations Chris! Sweet, sweet track bike. This will be interesting to watch come together.

Ha! I'm actually an American & a New Yorker living in Oz. We're the ones who are supposed to walk straight past frozen dead homeless people on a winter's night without breaking stride. Maybe the Aussie sun has started to get to me

Well there you go, you get honorary Aussie citizenship. Next you will find yourself getting obnoxiously drunk and loud in foreign countries, and loudly imposing your boorishness on everyone.... Oh, hang on, New Yorkers already do that

[jonescg]

Woohoo!

Thanks to Full-Throttle for sketching these guys up, and recommending a great service in China. I got 12 of the 3p10s boards made, and 30 of the 5p6s boards.

Left to right: 3p and 5p topside:


L-r: 3p and 5p boards, underside.


Now, it's going to be a bit tougher to solder the balance leads and Methods boards to the pack if the lumps of copper are already there to sink the heat. But I won't know how long the wiring needs to be until it's built, so I don't think I'll have much choice. Still, an 80 W beveled soldering iron should give plenty of heat to get it to stick.

If I hadn't spent all my money on a bike I would buy some more cells and get to work

[Arlo1]

Woohoo!

Thanks to Full-Throttle for sketching these guys up, and recommending a great service in China. I got 12 of the 3p10s boards made, and 30 of the 5p6s boards.

Left to right: 3p and 5p topside:


L-r: 3p and 5p boards, underside.


Now, it's going to be a bit tougher to solder the balance leads and Methods boards to the pack if the lumps of copper are already there to sink the heat. But I won't know how long the wiring needs to be until it's built, so I don't think I'll have much choice. Still, an 80 W beveled soldering iron should give plenty of heat to get it to stick.

If I hadn't spent all my money on a bike I would buy some more cells and get to work

Dude I love it. You are going to be able to make a very "Clean" pack with that!

[megacycle]

small-blow-torch.jpg (43.05 KiB) Viewed 364 times

and keep the heat moving

[jonescg]

I already have one of them. I'm just worried I'll torch something I shouldn't... Plus it tends to oxidise stuff and burn the rosin as you add solder. I might pre-head the copper with one of these though.