Cowards Coming Too Close? Color 'em Yellow.

[MattyCiii]

I ride with a helmet cam. I must admit it takes discipline - like safely charging batteries & doing other bike maintenance. I have to think to charge up the camera, and purge the memory chip else it fill up. Oh yeah, and remember to turn it on and video everything.

The video of course does little good. I took footage to the Boston police and they threatened me with felony violation of wiretapping laws (since then the MA supreme court gave them a smack down over such threats, so...). I've brought complaints to police in two cities in RI (no video for these, just complaints) and both basically told me they're powerless to hold drivers accountable for harassment or reckless endangering of a cyclist.

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

[Lessss]

When a cop says something so stupid you immediately ask for the complaint form or have your lawyer come in.

[Dauntless]

Dang, angry woman vs. bike; basically in the U.S., first of all the guy gets his license suspended for what he did to start this, then the woman gets a vehicular assault charge that she might be able to beat, then I don't remember what they call it when the guy climbs on the hood of her car but he does get charged and her manuever is then self defense, then he goes after her. Basically he's looking at more jail time than she is. Dirbag against dirtbag, no human involved. Keep that in mind when you're wanting to be self righteous in your right of way demands. Don't know about all states, I do know that in California the car has the right of way. Most of the complaining I hear from cyclists seems to neglect that fact.

That guys' compliation of his complaints is one of the rare videos where there's much to point the finger at the drivers for, most of these videos that I've seen the cyclist is complaining over nothing. There was a few of those there, too.

I don't recall ever having a driver getting mad at me when I'm on a bike. But then I don't ride out a few lanes over from the side, I don't get on roads where any fool should be able to tell a bike doesn't belong there, I don't start shouting things at people when a car that is GOING FASTER THAN ME changes lanes in front of me. (That's the dumbest thing of all to shout about.) When I'm on a bike I recognize that all those traffic laws apply to me, although I've noticed that not all cyclists waste their precious time on stop signs and traffic lights no matter how much cross traffic there is. (I notice some of that in these videos.) Sometimes they become irate no matter how clearly their own fault it is. I feel like I have far worse close calls when I'm driving.

Only time I recall a cyclist starting on me when I was driving was when I was turning into a gas station and had a car move to cut me off so I had to stop and sit. And sit. So this cyclist eventually comes along while I still can't get all the way onto the lot and WRONGLY assumed he had some complaint. If you come upon traffic that has bound up and stopped, you're required to stop and wait. Period. I noticed him waiting there, then he followed me to the pump and as I got out of my car he lifted his bike over his head while shouting about what he should do to me. I'm just big enough that when I grab a psycho by the throat with a little twist he'll usually become cooperative. I pointed out to him how lucky he was I didn't knock him down and pin him under his bike while waiting for the police. He'd have spent a little time in jail.

A guy I went to high school with went to prison in a road rage incident. Never did understand what started it, but he followed the other driver, when the guy got out he ran him down. The guy died. I heard he whined about how nobody seemed to care how hard this was on him. All these fools pitching these tantrums rarely have anything to complain about, yet look how they act out. They made damn sure we all hear that they're complaining.

Just one quick example: Watch how he's riding after his fool complaint- - -



Or you can watch what I GUESS just HAS to be a comedy video. I just picture every nut on the road running around with this inner dialogue:

[DrkAngel]

I was hesitant to post a link to this item.
It seems to fit into this thread.

But ... on a different forum it produced a stubborn polarization of opinion.

Note: The original post - video showed only the final confrontation, I found this video, which includes the origin of the confrontation.

Psycho? bus driver vs. stupid? cyclist

[REdiculous]

Dang, angry woman vs. bike; basically in the U.S., first of all the guy gets his license suspended for what he did to start this, then the woman gets a vehicular assault charge that she might be able to beat, then I don't remember what they call it when the guy climbs on the hood of her car but he does get charged and her manuever is then self defense, then he goes after her. Basically he's looking at more jail time than she is. Dirbag against dirtbag, no human involved. Keep that in mind when you're wanting to be self righteous in your right of way demands. Don't know about all states, I do know that in California the car has the right of way. Most of the complaining I hear from cyclists seems to neglect that fact.

He didn't jump on the car, he was "hit" and managed to hang on.

I can't tell what started the whole fight, but some guy landing a glancing blow on your fender doesn't give you the right to assault him with a deadly weapon.

People suck.

[MattyCiii]

Wow.

Try watching the video again, but first open your mind and open your eyes.

I don't remember what they call it when the guy climbs on the hood of her car but he does get charged and her manuever is then self defense

How the walking man got on the hood is off camera, so who knows what really happened? It's likely he was going for the driver side window to confront the driver when she panicked and drove into him. That's not assault, that's attempted homicide.

So this cyclist eventually comes along while I still can't get all the way onto the lot and WRONGLY assumed he had some complaint. If you come upon traffic that has bound up and stopped, you're required to stop and wait. Period. I noticed him waiting there, then he followed me to the pump and as I got out of my car he lifted his bike over his head while shouting about what he should do to me.

Something is missing. Did you right cross him?

If you come upon traffic that has bound up and stopped, you're required to stop and wait. Period.

I don't make it a point to go around learning random state laws, but I can name 3 states off the top of my head - MA, CA and NY - where it's expressly legal for a bike to pass stopped traffic on the right. You were stopped, and from your description he was passing on the right. Look before you turn, driving is a serious responsibility.

Sounds like you're passionate about road rules, with a bias toward the driver. That's not uncommon. Just keep in mind that drivers kill more Americans under age 30 than all other causes - in fact, all other causes combined except suicide. Not all of those deaths are "accidents". Many are "neglignets" and most are "preventables". Driving around with a self-entitled chip on your shoulder sets you up to walk in the footsteps of your high school classmate.

[DrkAngel]

Dang, angry woman vs. bike; basically in the U.S., first of all the guy gets his license suspended for what he did to start this, then the woman gets a vehicular assault charge that she might be able to beat, then I don't remember what they call it when the guy climbs on the hood of her car but he does get charged and her manuever is then self defense, then he goes after her. Basically he's looking at more jail time than she is. Dirbag against dirtbag, no human involved. Keep that in mind when you're wanting to be self righteous in your right of way demands. Don't know about all states, I do know that in California the car has the right of way. Most of the complaining I hear from cyclists seems to neglect that fact.

He didn't jump on the car, he was "hit" and managed to hang on.

I can't tell what started the whole fight, but some guy landing a glancing blow on your fender doesn't give you the right to assault him with a deadly weapon.

People suck.

What I saw ...

Biker pulls between 2 vehicles "encroaching" on their space. (Possibly scraping car?)
Driver apparently, (vocally? horn?), objects.
Biker responds by assaulting car.
Driver responds by assaulting bike-biker.
Biker, apparently, seems intent on confronting-assaulting driver.
Driver makes, (defensive?), assault. (Disregard for traffic, vehicle, curbs, parked cars - suggests more than anger ... likely fear > panic. Probable - "flight response". )
Biker "recovers" and reaches into vehicle. (Possible assault? = Which would modify charges, from vehicular assault, to mutual assault.)

Lessons learned?

I doubt those 2 are capable of "learning" much ...

Me?
Further indication that,
"If you stand up to an a__hole, it's unlikely you will walk away ... without getting some "stink" on yourself!"

[dogman]

My take on the motorcycle, angry woman vid. Guy on the bike is an idiot to put himself in such a tight spot. No telling what the legality is in that place, for lane splitting. I just know I wouldn't thread the needle myself unless the space was actually big enough. Those are narrow lanes, not wide interstate in California lanes.

Just dumb to trust cars when you have no fenders or airbags. Even dumber to kick a parked car that can easily tap you since you are parked on it's front corner. Kick the car as it moves ahead of you, maybe.... but not while you are sitting in it's sights.

Take the lane, and wait your turn. Why be in a vulnerable place if the light changes and cars start moving?

[gogo]

Looked to me like the biker was reaching into the car to get the keys to make sure the crime scene was secured. She had put it into reverse by that time and maybe he had also pulled the emergency brake while he was in there, too.

There's no way his kick was justified or a smart thing to do.

[Dauntless]

Try watching the video again, but first open your mind and open your eyes.

Just like they were open the first time I watched it. Too bad yours isn't. But if you're not willing to accept the "Thump" of him jumping on the hood after seeing him go over there BEFORE you hear her go, I guess I'd say open your EARS and open your mind. IF she hit him as he walked over after he'd already been kicking her car for no reason, she's in less trouble than if she went once he was already on the hood, as she just says she felt menaced. That would probably work for a woman vs. a man. But once he's on the hood he's obviously not going to pull her door open, etc. Getting back to where she's probably going to be able to get off, although going ahead and driving with someone on your hood gets you in trouble. Your use of "Likely" illustrates your own closed mind, wanting to prejudge the situation to suit yourself.

. . . .I was turning into a gas station and had a car move to cut me off so I had to stop and sit. And sit. So this cyclist eventually comes along while I still can't get all the way onto the lot and WRONGLY assumed he had some complaint. If you come upon traffic that has bound up and stopped, you're required to stop and wait. Period. I noticed him waiting there, then he followed me to the pump and as I got out of my car he lifted his bike over his head while shouting about what he should do to me.

Something is missing. Did you right cross him?

What's missing is the part you edited out about how I was already stopped after I was suddenly blocked a good 20 seconds before he got up there. What's also missing is any reason for you to be asking if I "Right crossed him" when you already know I didn't. And stop pretending the right cross is a problem unique to bicycles. Cars, motorcycles, everyone on the road goes through it. People turn right from the left turn lane, ANY vehicle has to watch out.

If you come upon traffic that has bound up and stopped, you're required to stop and wait. Period.

I don't make it a point to go around learning random state laws, but I can name 3 states off the top of my head - MA, CA and NY - where it's expressly legal for a bike to pass stopped traffic on the right. You were stopped, and from your description he was passing on the right. Look before you turn, driving is a serious responsibility.

Look before you respond, posting is a serious responsibility. Your last statement there was quite reckless. If you come upon traffic that has bound up and stopped, you're required to stop and wait. Period. If I'm sitting there stuck halfway because someone got over and blocked where I was going and I can't get into the lot, you have the whole thousand feet you cover as you come at me to realize that the laws apply to you and you have to stop, or go to my left. You are wrong to ever say otherwise. You said you know in California, then you know California is on my side. I feel sure those other states are also.

Sounds like you're passionate about road rules, with a bias toward the driver. That's not uncommon. Just keep in mind that drivers kill more Americans under age 30 than all other causes - in fact, all other causes combined except suicide. Not all of those deaths are "accidents". Many are "neglignets" and most are "preventables". Driving around with a self-entitled chip on your shoulder sets you up to walk in the footsteps of your high school classmate.

Nope. Sounds like I'm cognizant of road rules, with a bias toward COMPLIANCE. That IS uncommon. There's not enough cyclists like me who don't begrudge following the laws, as you sound as though you do begrudge it. There are way, WAY too many cyclists who just have to stop being so egocentric. Just keep in mind that it's VIOLATIONS that kill more than all other causes on the road. Negligence is the self entitled chip on YOUR shoulder that you displayed in your post. It is YOU that walks in the footsteps of my old classmate, your post shows that. One need only read your response, your OWN passionate bias towards bicycles, your anger when reminded of the truth, your effort to distort what I wrote. If you're unwilling to be honest, you're not fit to be in a discussion.

And lane splitting is a FOOLISH maneuver that I'll not make without some very good reason. I could go on just with what I've seen of guys riding right into cars, hitting rear view mirrors, mine included, also of course the incidents when they can't get through and RAGE at the cars. Gee, that's just the thoughts of a guy who got a perfect score on the riding test for the M1 license that most motorcyclists I know don't even have.

Keep in mind this video below is from one of the cyclists, seeing what the camera sees, hearing what the camera hears. The group blocking both lanes, ignoring the officers who are have their lights on and are using the P.A. You can understand the P.A. from the video. The sound also captures a farcical discussion of their right to do all this and ignore the police. THERE is the self entitled chip on the shoulder you farcically accused me of having. I could in fact believe this video is of you, the way you posted. The same self entitled chip as on the shoulder of that cyclist who acted like he was going to hit me with his bike, then apologized and admitted I hadn't done anything wrong once he settled down before he left. (He did admit he was in a bad mood at being caught in the rain.) I was as patient with him as I am with you right now, I let you both know but didn't blow up at either of you. You, too, have to admit you are wrong. But like this jerk in this video, I think you'll deny the visible evidence. Too bad for him the cop isn't so calm as I am. Dang, the cop is mad that the guy is recording a video that's self damning. Then he posts is as though he's done nothing wrong.

(The link is in case the embed continues to fail.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKzDLCB9 ... re=related

[MadRhino]

Confrontation never leads to anything good. We have the advantage of mobility and speed in traffic, better steer away from trouble and let them cagers yell at each other. If you act stupid, you will soon meet someone acting stupid and a half.

[dogman]

Again, I don't know the exact law in this locality, but in my state thier actions would be illegal unless they had a parade permit. In NM, you must not take the lane unless there is no other option, and riding 2 abreast taking the lane IS illegal, except for one bike overtaking the other.

At christmas, I did a similar ride to the one in the vid, but with about 300 bikes. The big difference was our parade permit included police escort. So our ride got to even ignore stop signs and signals.

Big attidudinal difference. One ride promoted bikes, while another just causes more friction. We also do mass visibility rides here, which are done single file, legaly riding and promoting our actual legal road rights, not our imaginary ones.

[Rassy]

I've just been reading this thread, and I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails. Why would you even discuss issues with an idiot like that? His highly illegal actions not only give all bikers a bad name, make car drivers even more antagonistic, and randomly cause problems for all road users, two wheels or four wheels.

MattyCiii bragged:

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

[MadRhino]

...I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails.

Lots of stupid things to do in this thread, this one is not worth a discussion.
As I said:

...If you act stupid, you will soon meet someone acting stupid and a half.

[REdiculous]

I was gonna mention the guy grabbing the keys - that's what I saw as well. I highly doubt it's legal to snatch someone's keys like that, but it was a smart thing to do. After an incident like that most people would be 'high' and unfit to drive for 5-15 minutes. Taking the keys keeps the driver from accidentally, or intentionally, doing more harm.

In NM, you must not take the lane unless there is no other option, and riding 2 abreast taking the lane IS illegal, except for one bike overtaking the other.

Where I live you can take the lane when it's safe(r) to do so. Riding 2 abreast may be illegal, I'd have to look it up, but no cop is going to care as long as you're riding safely.

[Lessss]

@ Dauntless

I don't get on roads where any fool should be able to tell a bike doesn't belong there

There is a difference between a car merging into your lane a distance in front of you vs the space where you are unsafely nearly killing you.

If you are caught in traffic you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel - sidewalk, bike lane, other car lanes. I can't count the number of times I've seen cars deliberately pull right on a straight road when stopped in traffic to block the bike lane. Try waiting in your lane for a space to FULLY open up allowing you to turn instead of illegally inching across the bike path and sidewalk.

Cop above the law vid: The cop was indeed wrong to stop without first flashing lights, he also failed to look in the mirror before opening the door. The scooter then mounted the sidewalk to make way to designated scooter parking avoiding the ONE WAY STREET, you will notice the multiple red markings on the walkway pavement marking off the pathway to the scooter parking.

Pigs gone wild. It was a critical mass drive aka a protest - Also not they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, they have every right to take the lane. Notice how when the cops pull forward to pick on the guy with the camera there is no traffic held up behind them, he had also gone to the bike lane at that point, also note how they fail to ID the person they want to stop as everyone is on a bike, then they violate the rights of the people on the sidewalk threatening them with loitering, then violated the guys right to videotape the encounter.

In the Bus video in the roundabout the bus is in the lane to go straight not go into the roundabout, the bus merged into the cyclist(bus in the wrong). Cyclists should be treated like a car while in a lane. Cyclist shouldn't have tapped on the wiper, bus w=as getting close again cyclist swerved towards bus as a message he was too close again bus driver responded with attempted murder.


In the motor cycle between two cars. What is not shown is the car passing the motorcycle at car length 1 to merge the lane at car length 0 pinching the motorcycle between two cars, it picks up with motor cycle making his way out of the pinch to get in front of the car and the women yelling obscenities at him in response to him giving her a piece of his mind before moving past her window, to which he responds to with a fender kick.

Re the internal monologue vid: didn't watch as it's one of those proselytizing religious vids.

[GrayKard]

I've just been reading this thread, and I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails. Why would you even discuss issues with an idiot like that? His highly illegal actions not only give all bikers a bad name, make car drivers even more antagonistic, and randomly cause problems for all road users, two wheels or four wheels.

MattyCiii bragged:

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

He's mentioned it already a couple of times in other threads. Probably shouldn't invite him on a group ride.

Gary

[DrkAngel]

I've just been reading this thread, and I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails. Why would you even discuss issues with an idiot like that? His highly illegal actions not only give all bikers a bad name, make car drivers even more antagonistic, and randomly cause problems for all road users, two wheels or four wheels.

MattyCiii bragged:

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

He's mentioned it already a couple of times in other threads. Probably shouldn't invite him on a group ride.

Gary

I was going to reply ... but honestly ... I couldn't figure what to say.

I was looking for something profound, helpful or inspirational, maybe sadness-despair is blocking me!

I had thoughts ... but nothing worthy of posting ...

I tried:

Dropping roofing nails on the road? Maybe 10% will be point up, the other 90% will have the "heads" edge up - no effect on a car tire, but will shred a bicycle tire. ... ?

Dropping nails where he goes? He might find them himself, unless he never goes that way again. ... ?

Not all A__holes drive cars! ... ?

Someone spots him dropping nails? Likely to "accidentally" get his bike, or him, crushed, mangled, disappeared etc. ... ?

Don't worry! Karma is a bitch! Vindictive and tenacious ... ?

[MattyCiii]

Probably shouldn't invite him on a group ride.

I'll ride last.




Yes I've tossed some nails at/under cars in response to what I perceived to be a threat on my life? Yes.
Maybe that's not the greatest sin - maybe my high crime is that I implied others should do the same.

To that I say: Mea culpa - My sin, I'm responsible, I was wrong.

Let me appeal to the Court of Public Opinion. But first I'll apologize to Dauntless. Dauntless some of the things I posted was out of line. Apparently, I'm the one with a self-indulgent chip on my shoulder - I carry a cyclist bias. I need to get that in check.


My appeal: I have exercised poor judgement and attempted to incite similar bad behavior - the cardinal sin being that I know from experience that said behavior is ineffective. Here's the full allocution:

• As a cyclist on the road, a taxpayer (who subsidizes roadbuilding & maintenance far above the amount of wear & tear I incur) and a person with legitimate right to the road,
• As someone harassed - and hazarded daily by motorists, and as someone the police - keepers of the keys to justice and recourse - basically (repeatedly) said they were unwilling/unable to help,
• As a son caring for an infirm mother, and a custodial father raising a minor child (i.e., I don't want some driver to kill me; beyond my desire to live, who will care for my mother and daughter?),

I have tried many things, some Good, some Bad, to improve my safety while riding. That's the central thesis.
Please don't get me wrong here.

• I'm sorry for being a douche to Dauntless (Sin: violating a standard of civility to a peer member of the ES community).
• I'm not sorry for any possible/likely flat tires my nails have caused (Sin: trying to not get killed by belligerent motorists while commuting).

The broader context: For the crime of throwing nails on the street: I only committed the crime a "handful" of times. And that was awhile ago.
If it pleases the court: I offer my guiding principle, or as Dexter might say, "my code": Think of ways to improve your safety. Observe. what works. Discard what doesn't.

I stopped tossing nails on the road, not on moral grounds, but because it doesn't work.

Tactics like yellow paint, a center punch, or scratching paint with a coat hanger (read the whole thread) all share the common theme of impacting only the bad driver. Conversely, the nails are blind and blunt, and can impact the legitimately innocent. Whilst I can aim for the white-knuckled a-hole- gunning for me in his beemer douche, I might instead flatten the tires of Granny Jones' car.

I get it now. I've stopped. No mas.

I have tried many things, some Good, some Bad, to improve my safety while riding.

Mitigating factors: I'll try anything - legal or not, morally wrong or right - to improve the behavior of those piloting two-ton automobiles with a goal toward living longer.
I've tried:

• Roofing nails [fail]
• Air Zound. [fail - will try again though]
• Joining bicycle advocacy groups [jury out]
• Complaints to police [fail! fail! fail!]
• Participating in public process [fail - with or without my presence, "vulnerable roadway user" legislation never made it to the floor. Let's hope 2012 is not a repeat]
• Lots of lights! [success. Noticeable difference in driver behavior when well lighted]
• Lane position [success! A foot or two more to the left creates a profound change in motorist behavior!]

Measures of success: In the future/when I can find the time, I'll mount an array of echolocation/distance sensors I've purchased, hooked to Arduino/data logging SD, got see how lights/horns/lane position/whatever impact passing distance. Why? Because my visceral feel of how drivers respond to these things don't mean squat. Perception is too easily distorted. Data - well collected - tells an objective story. Intuition tells us lies. Data can dispel illusions.
I'll try almost anything, Good, Bad, to improve my safety while riding

[Rassy]

@ MattyCiii, Your previous post was well stated and I just want to say thank-you for taking and expressing a mature attitude. I know you had mentioned the nails before, and likewise, I had expressed my feelings concening a fellow cyclist and ES member that would be so thoughtless. No hard feelings on my part now.

I was on an organized ride in 2010 where someone had thrown thumb tacks on the route, and I'm quite sensitive to the impact that had on all the riders. I picked up two tacks and was saved by the Slime tubes. One of my friends picked up four tacks and had to replace three tubes on her two wheeled bike.

Concerning techniques that work, someone, from New York I think, once posted how much more respect he recieved when pulling one of those little light weight childs trailers. He had initially used it only occasionaly when he needed to haul something, but after noting the reaction he started using it all the time. He even reported that it worked best when the top was up and car drivers just assumed there was a child on board even though they couldn't see inside. A side benefit was having a place to haul things whenever he decided to stop at a store.

[DrkAngel]

Any sort of aggression by a cyclist appears to generate a fresh round of amplified aggression, towards the offending cyclist ... and against all cyclists!
Any driver who intentionally offends you is likely goading you, looking for a response, ready to really damage you if they get it.
Any driver who accidentally offends you might respond well to a calm explanation of the offense, but is liable to be turned anti-cyclist by an angry confrontation. They might be apologetic and forever more careful to the "human being", but also, liable to turn apathetic or hostile towards a ranting "animal".

[Dauntless]

Dang, should I take this as my avatar?

@ Dauntless

I don't get on roads where any fool should be able to tell a bike doesn't belong there

There is a difference between a car merging into your lane a distance in front of you vs the space where you are unsafely nearly killing you.

There's also a difference in the roads, there's weaving from lane to lane in heavy traffic, forcing your way in where you're automatically a problem just by being there then wrongly passing blame onto your victims, etc. etc. etc. Or has Seinfeld would say, "Yada yada yada." That's it. No amount of obfuscation will change that. So many of these videos I want to think of as neologisms; their platforms for meaningless expressions of misplaced anger.

Alright, alright, I'll stop being an english major.

If you are caught in traffic you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel - sidewalk, bike lane, other car lanes. I can't count the number of times I've seen cars deliberately pull right on a straight road when stopped in traffic to block the bike lane. Try waiting in your lane for a space to FULLY open up allowing you to turn instead of illegally inching across the bike path and sidewalk.

If you're caught in traffic you're caught in traffic. Repeat this statement of yours over and over to yourself as you reread your 'Pigs Gone Wild' statement.

you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel
they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, (Blocking) they have every right to (Deliberately block) the lane.
you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel
they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, (Blocking) they have every right to (Deliberately block) the lane.
you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel
they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, (Blocking) they have every right to (Deliberately block) the lane.

You can't have it both ways, only one standard can exist. And cyclists do know that, some just don't WANT to.

Cop above the law vid: The cop was indeed wrong to stop without first flashing lights, he also failed to look in the mirror before opening the door. The scooter then mounted the sidewalk to make way to designated scooter parking avoiding the ONE WAY STREET, you will notice the multiple red markings on the walkway pavement marking off the pathway to the scooter parking.

Riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk is riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk. If someone in a car or on a skateboard did that, going right at pedestrians, you'd be ---(iNSERT DOUBLE STANDARD HERE.) I can't imagine there's a vehicle code anywhere that says "But if it's more convenient for someone on a motorcycle to just ride up the sidewalk at the pedestrians to get to parking. . . ." The same people complaining about the cars that are on the road where they're supposed to be have no trouble with the motorcycle riding at the pedestrians where he's NOT supposed to be???????????


Conservative MP Andrea Leadsom last (YEAR) introduced a private member's bill to the Commons, proposing a new offence of causing death by dangerous cycling. She used the example of 17-year-old Rhiannon Bennett, who was knocked down and killed by cyclist John Howard as she walked with friends in Buckingham in April 2007. "I am a keen cyclist. . . .

Pigs gone wild. It was a critical mass drive aka a protest - Also not they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, they have every right to take the lane. Notice how when the cops pull forward to pick on the guy with the camera there is no traffic held up behind them, he had also gone to the bike lane at that point, also note how they fail to ID the person they want to stop as everyone is on a bike, then they violate the rights of the people on the sidewalk threatening them with loitering, then violated the guys right to videotape the encounter.

Funny thing is, my friend the competitive cyclist dismisses these people as "Not real cyclists." Of course this guy sees things where he wants to grab the jerk and pitch him off the bike himself. Quite an activist for doing the right thing. (Guess you wouldn't like him. He's a great guy, ask his wife.)

Number one thing to me is maybe in Canada. In the U.S. when you have the law breaking that's recorded in the video the cops run traffic breaks, with another car farther back slowing the traffic so noone approaches, OF COURSE I don't expect to see anyone following them, I'd have been surprised if I did see them. Note how long the parade of cars becomes once they get it cleared and the traffic break is released. Actrually the video doesn't go on long enough to show just how long a traffic jam they committed the crime of deliberately creating. Calling a crime a protest doesn't make it less of a crime, it makes it a confession. When some of the guilty party continue to interfere after they've been allowed to leave they have no right, therefore their rights are not violated. The video tope proves their rights were not violated.

The Norco bank robbery, 1980, a protest against the U.S. government that got a police officer and two assailants killed, 9 officers and I think all the other 3 assailants wounded, plus a kid maybe 12 years old had his finger shot off when the bad guys momentarily lost the cops and needed someone else to shoot at to maintain their commitment to nonstop gunfire. (Over 27,000 rounds in 45 minutes.) What these two gatherings have in common is that they were excuses to hate/planned confrontations: I refuse to be sympathetic to that. Doesn't matter how big or small, the intentions are bad. We had mass demonstrations here against the killing of a homeless man last summer without people calling trouble, they even stood around talking to some officers during. (Two cops are about to go on trial.) A bicycle to me is what I bought for pocketchange in the 2nd grade. It was a classmate's father's bike as a kid, but it wasn't going to be rideable until I figured out how to use tools so I could fix it. Dad was a very sternfaced engineer, but you should have seen how giddy he got over me being determined to do this myself. (Hence the nickname 'Dauntless.') You're not going to convince me a bicycle is the valid excuse to hate that those (Not real) cyclists are claiming it is. Yeah, I'm with Jos, they're not even real cyclists.

As long as he'd apparently been following, since he was using the P.A. nonstop, plus what you can pick out from the responses, I'd say this officer knew he was dealing with a deliberate effort to get in trouble over FALSE ideas of what he could get away with. If one guy is the leader, guess who they go after. Dang, I'm just waiting for them to start singing "You can get any bike you want, at Alice's cycle shop." Of course Alice's cycle shop isn't the name of the cycle shop, it's the name of the song, and that's why I call this song. . . .

But ultimately, all we are say--ing, is give bike laws a chance. (As I think the majority of us on bikes do, contrary to the message of many in this thread.) Even so, most accidents are caused by the rider, a hard fact to argue away when you're complaining about the drivers not staying 3 feet from you even though you don't stay 3 feet from them. In California, probably in every state, bikes do not own the road. They do not have right of way, specifically, in the vehicle code. Basically the vehicle code is telling you that you're allowed to ride your bike if and when it's convenient. In one of these threads, maybe this one but I'm not searching, I mentioned running interference for a slow moving guy too far out on a tadpole. Oh, he'd have been ticketed no matter how much he tried to argue his "Rights" that no he doesn't have; he was causing trouble. I may well have been ticketed too, except I'd be saying ". . . .I know all that, but the problem would have been bigger if I let someone hit him and you know it." I doubt the cop would have gone on arguing.

Don't start about you pay taxes, and. . . . The people who don't ride bikes greatly outnumber those of us who do. If they started counting all the bikes in my state, not only would we be well short of enough for everyone, I've got about 40, count 'em 40, (Neighborhood kids go in my backyard and take them to ride then bring them back broken) I know lots of people with multiple bikes who don't see others riding on their street, a la there really isn't the numbers for people to think they can throw their weight around. Nor is there an excuse to be made for riding the scooter on the sidewalk or saying there's something wrong with what the cop did parking or getting out of the car out there in front of him. Reminds me of the Issac Asimov novel with the people who can't stand knowing there's others of their kind on the planet and it's an abomination to see another living creature. You gotta interact, deal with it. Just as Jos would probably be expecting me to take home the bike he just confiscated from the unworthy (Not real) cyclist. Figure it out, there's not even very many of the cyclists on your side.

In the Bus video. . . .

Stop right there, I didn't say anything about it, dismissed as nongermane. I just don't want to respond to any more tenuous opinion with facts if I haven't gotten myself into that one already. I'm dealing with enough of the ridiculous. . . .

In the motor cycle between two cars. What is not shown is. . . .

. . . .Much of anything to support your description. If I was writing the continuity on this, I'd start with the detail that the cars were stopped as he rode up between them. What you're saying wasn't shown and is something you can't claim happened for that very reason. You're inventing excuses for him that aren't even enough. Maybe because I've built sound effects that make one suppose about what they're hearing from off camera I tend to visualize what I think I'm hearing, I think the sounds of him jumping on and then the engine revving and tires chirping are distinct. However it IS present; this supposition of yours of what happened before the video is simply unsupportable and argumentative. 2 wheels are not automatically right in any dispute with 4 wheels, contrary to the argument quite a few try to make in this thread. I spend a lot of time on both and see both at fault a lot. The one bias I'll admit to is against rationalized violence. If my fellow cyclist wants to attack someone because that one was going faster than him and moved into his Muammar Gaddafi "200 mile line of death" in front of him, I'm all for doubling his sentence, he deserves it. The slight is imaginary. I can post video after video of the not really bad things someone caught on tape and used as their justification to vandalize the car and put it on YouTube. Even a few where they became violent. Arrest them all.

Also unsupportable by what's in the video is there's no reason to think he was after the keys, that's simply making more excuses for him. I reserve any identifying with someone for times when it's someone good. The last thing I'm going to do is feel for what is obviously a bad guy who strikes me as quite at home with the incident when he gets his closeup. He did, however, ride into the space between the stopped cars, that can't be argued with.

Re the internal monologue vid: didn't watch as it's one of those proselytizing religious vids.

I took it as fiction, a comedy in characterization video. It's narrated afterwards, the guy just looks at his video and decides what to say. Maybe he's not even the rider. Same with this. I had to send this to Nick, who refuses to ride but this so makes me think of what he'd be like; even looks and sounds like him. You know the rider is not recording himself inside the helmet, again it doesn't have to be the actual rider who's speaking when it's dubbed later.

Of course, Nick's response was "OMG!" A few people who hadn't actually met him yet are now looking forward to it after seeing this. Meanwhile, you guys got me spending a 2nd night sitting up watching videos and responding. I know I manage to make it seem fun, but that's what I do. I'm gonna need to stage a protest. . . .

[dogman]

Matt fails to mention the single most effective way to ride safe.

Better route selection. I'm continualy amazed at the folks that post, "there is no other way". That would be the point when I personally would question the vehicle selection, if riding long distances on clearly hazardous streets is the only choice.

Face it folks, road rights are great, but riding a long section of the wrong road on bicycles daily is not exactly smart. A short bit of danger, perhaps crossing a busy road is one thing. But riding a long ways where there is no shoulder and traffic is really fast calls for a registered and insured vehicle that can keep up.

Re scratching cars as they pass. The folks I knew that did this never did it riding alone. They did it when riding in a large group, riding single file. Dont pick fights when solo.

[Lessss]

http://www.examiner.com/alternative-transportation-in-tulsa/tulsa-cyclist-ticketd-for-riding-the-street?cid=db_articles
Tulsa cyclist ticketed for riding in the street

"If...I find you riding in the center of the lane again, I have the power to take you in for a mental health evaluation."

[gogo]

http://www.examiner.com/alternative-transportation-in-tulsa/tulsa-cyclist-ticketd-for-riding-the-street?cid=db_articles
Tulsa cyclist ticketed for riding in the street

"If...I find you riding in the center of the lane again, I have the power to take you in for a mental health evaluation."

A mental health evaluation is in order … for the LEO who pretended to look up the law and then lied about it and essentially harassed the citizen. He's a wannabe that is a power tripper and his career should be nipped in the bud.