Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

[Whiplash]

Hey all, I am considering the "Going Electric" hub motor offered by EV Tech, to my knowledge it is not the BMC motor but one they build in house. I would like to know this for sure, Anyone have any info on these??

[Gordo]

I blew the TH400 in my 454 suburban 3 times with the 4 gear planetary. Changed to 3 and never blew it again. Towed a large trailer all over the country, Canada to Mex and back. Sold it with 450,000 miles and it was still going years later. JWID

[dozentrio]

Have all of the hub motors mentioned here been described?

[lfairban]

The link given above for my list of ebike kit providers does not work since my ISP moved the site directory. I finally broke down and got a web domain: http://eebikes.net/. The kits table is at: http://eebikes.net/kits.html. I updated the links and prices, but I am probably missing a few.

[Zmoto]

I didn't see anyone mention it, but http://ebikessf.com/catalog has the BMC V3 1000 Watt geared hubs for $505, hub only of course. He seems to be one of the few vendors willing to part with them separately by themselves.

[motomech]

Google "Cute85" (and also the Endless-sphere search window). A few guys are playing with these, they are fairly new and quite affordable in price. Their size is on the smaller end of the scale, but, they ARE a brushless geared hub-motor...

Unfortunately. it appears that BMS Battery has dis-continued their rear wheel version of the Cute 85.
Been looking for one w/ no luck.

[Digitalworm]

Hi.
Can you help me, please...
How can i remove detail #4?
I'm talking about the big gear in the picture 3
This thing is screwed on the thread?
maybe she just stuck?
Can it be heated to remove?
Sorry for my bad english...

[voicecoils]

Yes, I think you just unscrew with a philips head but it may be stuck.

A good tool for this situation is the manual impact driver, like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImpactDriverWithBits.png

You hit the tool with a hammer and it twists the philips head by translating the downward force of the hammer to a twisting force.

Good luck!

Also, everyone: I've changed the title from 'definitive' to 'BIG'. There's a lot of great info here, but it's by no means definitive yet and new motors are always coming to market.

[Digitalworm]

Yes, I think you just unscrew with a philips head but it may be stuck.

A good tool for this situation is the manual impact driver, like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImpactDriverWithBits.png

You hit the tool with a hammer and it twists the philips head by translating the downward force of the hammer to a twisting force.

Good luck!

Also, everyone: I've changed the title from 'definitive' to 'BIG'. There's a lot of great info here, but it's by no means definitive yet and new motors are always coming to market.

Thank you very much, but I was referring to another way.
I need to remove the item #4 from detail #1. But i cannot do it. Item as rooted...
So I want to know:
I unscrew it a special tool? Or It just stuck and need to attach the power and pull it out?
This link to our Russian forum-there image of this detail: http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.p ... tach=27084

[The Mighty Volt]

Google "Cute85" (and also the Endless-sphere search window). A few guys are playing with these, they are fairly new and quite affordable in price. Their size is on the smaller end of the scale, but, they ARE a brushless geared hub-motor...

I have a cousin of the Cute, an Ananda 24v that I bought from Cell-Man. Quite pokey. I set one up to a Meanwell, dropped the motor into a 20" rim and then lashed it to the rear of an old bike frame. I put 30v into that baby through a 15A controller and it was like lifting weights trying to hold the frame back under full throttle.

I was wondering if anyone here had any idea how many volts can be safely passed through these little critters? What's their weak point? The Halls at higher voltage? Wear on the gears???

I wouldn't be looking to go past 15, 20A in any case. I understand they can melt with the heat.

[jateureka]

[quote="Digitalworm
I need to remove the item #4 from detail #1. But i cannot do it. Item as rooted...
This link to our Russian forum-there image of this detail: http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.p ... tach=27084[/quote]
Did you remove the key?

[Kelp]

Does anyone have technical specifications for the XMUS hubs [and kit],? I'd like to compare them to the cute 100.
I contacted XMUS for tech specs and am waiting for a response. When the info comes I'll post if know one has them already.
http://www.mxusebikekit.com/shop_show.asp?cid=47
http://www.mxusebikekit.com/shop_show.asp?cid=46

The spec download on the Cute100 are here, seeking same for the XMUS to compare:
http://www.ecitypower.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=66

Does anyone know anything about the XMUS controllers? They look very compact and tidy which appeals to me. They have LCD operation also - another plus.
Any reliability info regarding the XMUS and cute100 would be appreciated.
I have been told Cute motors have power cable on the non chain side which is preferable. Don't know about the XMUS.

I am looking for a discrete-powered bike [black rear hub <130mm dia] for my all black cannondale badboy 9 [700c with disc brakes]. Was originally going to get the cytronex [tongxin] kits but delays in their release and further research have changed my views [despite likelyhood that cytronex's own controllers seems to get around the 'flaws' with Tongxin motors, it seems given the good reviews of Cytronex bikes]. I commute 20km each way on mostly flat terrain but often in strong headwinds. Looking to go 25-30kmh in a 20knt headwind [ compared to 10-15kmh now] but only need pedal assist [ still want some exercise]. Happy to charge battery either end to keep battery small.

[motomech]

Here is a short list of geared mini-motor no-load[@36V] rpm numbers.
Not "chiseled in stone" and certainly not a definitive list, but I think they are accurate.
There is no difference between front and rear models where both "slow" and "fast" winds are offered.

MXUS[also called the Mini-might]
Only one wind offered- 250 rpm

Ananda[Cute] 36V/350W Q100 motor as listed on the BMS Battery site.
'201' "slow" wind- 230 rpm
"328" Fast" wind- 275 rpm

Bafang 3 Kg. motors, QSWXH, etc.
"201" "slow" wind- 201 rpm
"328" Fast" wind- 328 rpm

These last numbers are interesting, as they are the only mini-motor no-load numbers that appear to be accurate on the BMS Battery site.
Perhaps these were the only two motors that were actually tested and the rest of the Mini motors were lumped into these two specifications.
Close enough , logical in a non-logical way.[perhaps I have been in Central America too long].

An observation- Geared mini motors are a compromise by nature and I.M.O., the "middle of the road" MXUS wind seems to be the best compromise for the majority of riders looking for an assist motor.

[marshy]

Ananda[Cute] 36V/350W Q100 motor as listed on the BMS Battery site.
'201' "slow" wind- 230 rpm
"328" Fast" wind- 275 rpm

Thanks for posting the info. I recently ordered a 36V Q100 "328" from BMSBattery, and I was somewhat concerned when I read your post. It's for a 20" wheel so I definitely want 328rpm. Anyway, I asked Jack Xie to confirm on their LiveChat tonight. He couldn't confirm what the no load speed of the motor was. The motor curve on the ecitypower site indicates approx 340 rpm at no load, 36V. He said the was for a "sample", not necessarily the motor they sell.

Could any one please confirm their actual "201 rpm" or "328 rpm" motors actual no load rpm is as per motomech's data?

If the "201" is typically 230rpm then I'll order a 24V and run it at 36V.
If the "328" really is 328rpm then I'll go with that.

(not disputing your info motomech, just want to double check in case your numbers come from a wierd batch or alternative supplier wind or something).


Thanks.

[motomech]

You'll be ok using the 36V "328" motor, just run 48V.
Plugging in the Ezee 20" motor[same no-load speed] into the Ebike CA sim., I see 22 to 23 mph
Running in a 20" wheel, it will accelerate and climb very well for a mini-motor.

[Kelp]

Finally got my MXUS kit working [ after they replaced a dud controller for me]. I would have to say after my first 40km ride that the 250rpm wind suits my needs very well. The kit is installed on a 700c flat bar road bike and I cruised at 31kmh on the flat in a light headwind in pedelec mode. On the few hills I tackle she droppped to about 22kmh. Used about half a battery each 20k leg.

[Cali E-Bike Rider]

Geared motor all the way. Geared motors have come along way in the past year. I have 3 E-bikes and all of them with geared motors now. One bike has atleast 10k miles on it too with no issues. Yea they make a little bit more noise but unless you complain about a golf tournament being loud then this will surely not bother ANYONE.

[crossbreak]

model: MBG36 tags: outrunner - disassembled - striped
weight: 3kg (measured, seller: 4kg)
(stator+shaft: 860g, rotor+bearings 530g, clutch and planets 371,sideplate w. bearing 177, sun gear 44,
nuts and washers 80 , hub with ring gear 715g )
Gear Reduction: ~4:1
Gears: Sun and ring gears are steel. The planets gears are Nylon and replaceable.
Freewheel: yes, roller type
Position: Front hub or rear
Disc Brake: yes, 6-bolt
Controller Compatibility: unknown, only sensorless tested
hall sensors: yes, unknown positioning
Rated Input Power: 250W
Rated Voltage: 24 or 36V
User Power: 600Watts peak, 250Watts continuous (input power, measured using Wattsup)
Peak Efficiency: unknown (definitely better than tongxin/weifeng hubmotors, tested on my daily commute)

dropout width: 135mm (rear, 6-8 speed), 138mm (9-speed) or 100mm (front)
sprocket interface: bsa thread
spoke flange dia: 130mm (measured, seller's drawing is wrong, important for spoke length calc)
spoke flange distance: 44mm
ounter dia: 142mm
Torque: 20,43Nm (seller's spec)
Speed: 225,7rpm (seller's spec), definitely loaded rpm, no load rpm is about 300rpm @ 37Volts

comment: looks like a bafang clone, a little bit larger than the 8fun
source: devi motors, Goldenmotor supplier http://www.devi-motion.com/webshop/bldc-hub-motor/p-1/D1000094--mbg36f--24v-250w--mini-front-motor.html

hub bearings: 12x28x8 and 17x8x35
rotor bearings: 15x28x7

ring gear:90T, module 1
planets: 36T
sun gear: 22T

[crossbreak]

A review of the 24V front version of the MBG will follow next week. I will also post inductance and phase resistance of both versions as soon as I know them.

Edit: The 24V front version sold in 2012 is only slightly different. Thats why I don't wanna write another review. The side covers are somewhat lighter, the stator carrier however has some more material:

[fiocco]

marshy, i have Q100 328 RPM 24v 350W and i use it under 36v i see 50 mph with no load charge 40 mph in load...

[motomech]

The "328" Cute has recently been added and I have been comparing the sim. results with those I obtain in the rear world and I think some "rectifying" is in order. As it stands now, the sim. results seem to me to be more in the order of what would expect with the larger 4 to 5 Kg. geared motors.
What I have found is, to get accurate "real world" results, one needs to reduce the "Amps" setting when setting up the custom controller.
For example, the stock KU63 controller will realize around 14 amp nominal readings. For the sim., try 11 to12 amps instead.
For a shunt-modified KU63 which, if done right:), with be around 17A. Instead, insert 13-14A.
I understand that the controller ratings generally don't effect top speed, but these little motors are "power limited" on top speed, rather than "RPM limited", as the majority of hub motors are.

[Bill Nye the science guy]

what motor is this?

planetaries.jpg

(125.03 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

planetaries2.jpg

(140.26 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

used to be bright aluminum. cant seem to find a match. looks a lot like an ezee from the outside but inside it is way beefier

[amberwolf]

It looks like the old (discontinued) Fusin 36V clutchless (and non-freewheeling!) geared hub. I have one here with that clutchless planetary arm setup, and two more that have the clutches instead (so they do freewheel). None of them are particularly beefy, but I have been able to get bursts of 1200W out of them, however they are intended for 350W max sustained, AFAICR. You can see them in my DayGlo Avenger thread, and in Dogman's earlier builds (before he sold one to me and then gave the rest of them to me a while later).


Their new version I havent' seen inside of yet, but it is in my Fusin Test thread about it:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39877

[Bill Nye the science guy]

awesome! thanks bud. I'm glad it doesn't have a freewheel clutch as long as the battery doesn't die. less parts to break.

[spinningmagnets]

Here's a disassembly tutorial of a MAC 1,000W 8T geared hub from Paul / cell_man @ em3ev.com...it also has some dimensions that are not listed in the published blueprint, and lots of pics:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603