Renault Twizy

[o00scorpion00o]

Okay found a company willing to give me a quote, now I hope you are sitting down.

Because I have the Pirus I can't use my 5 year no claims discount.

So the quote I got including the electric car discount was €853.00 or 1100 USD!

The Prius costs 450.00 Euro's per year with the two of us on it, and can go a lot faster than Twizy!

Nobody will buy the Twizy unless it costs at least half that to insure because at such a stupid price it's no incentive for anyone to change to a more suitable form of city and town travel.

This Island is really so backward!

Twizy = FAIL

[Lebowski]

contact Renault and tell them !

[o00scorpion00o]

contact Renault and tell them !

Just off the phone to them now, got put through to Twickenham in the U.K The lady said she would defiantly pass the message along and made me aware that Renault have their Own auto insurance. So I will ring the local Dealer tomorrow.

Shame on Renault for not making the insurance companies more aware of their new cars!

[Matthijs]

In Holland Renault made a document for isurance companies and the rules they must follow to insure a Twizy. Because the battery belongs to RFG (Renault Finance Group) and it states that the battery has to be fully insured at all time and that RFG will always be the benificiary when something happens to the battery. The document even says that the insured value of the battery is 3800 euro's and the write off is 10% per year.

You can find the Dutch document here: http://nivre.nl/userfiles/downloads/Flits%20januari%202012%20Renault%20ZE%20batterijverzekering.pdf

Free translation with google:

Information for insurance companies -insurance Introduction HE battery from Renault in November 2011 introduced a period of 1 year 4 electric cars on the Dutch market.Renault uses the term Z.E. which stands forZero Emission. The motto of Renault is that an electric car should be accessible to everyone!The Z.E. Renault business model is characterized by the unbundling of the car and the battery. The battery remains during the economic lifetime ownership of RenaultFinancial Services (RFS). Customer benefit is that the initial investment is low and monthlyrent is paid for the battery. Renault and RFSguarantee the quality of the battery: if by a technical fault, the battery capacity is insufficient, then it is replaced at no charge tothe customer. This business model does haveimplications for the insurance: the batteryshould be ensured, even if she has a different owner than the car. This document describesthe conditions required insurance must complybattery and put the product characteristics of the battery RFS ZE insurance at a glance

[Lebowski]

still, you can bitch and moan about the obligatory battery lease, I think it's a smart idea from Renault's
point of view. Because people don't own the battery they don't care what happens to it. Renault can
upgrade the technology when you bring the Twizy for service with no cost to the driver. Or just replace
the worn out unit for a new one. But the big plus I see is that Renault can offer a $ 5 battery swap at
every dealer so people can swap an empty one for a full one, like at a gas station. I think an easy way
to fuel up in a few minutes is a big thing for EV's and the main thing that keeps EV's from becoming
mainstream. On the Renault site they mention this, they kept this in mind as all their EV's are designed
for a quick battery swap from underneath. There's a video somewhere showing a robotised 'E' station
swapping a battery fully automatically.

[Matthijs]

Implications for Both the insurance business and private customer who decides to purchase one of the Renault ZE models, connect a battery lease agreement with RFS. Article 8 of this Agreement states that the customer is obliged to provide a battery insurance. As an insurance company has the following options for a car to offer for the Renault ZE Models: 1.WA + Casco insurance exclusive 2. WA + Cascoinsurance including cover for the battery cover for the battery in the first case the customer has a separate battery insurance. This isoffered by RFS and can optionally be added tothe monthly battery rental. WA + Cascoexclusive cover for the battery As an insurer, you are able to WA + Casco insurance to offercoverage without the battery. This applies to the purchase price of the car insured valuewithout you having to take into account the value of the battery. The customer then has the option to charge insurance into the monthlybattery rental at RFS. In case of damage and /or total loss of your processes, you musthowever note that RFS is the owner of the battery. Later in this document, we are still into it. WA + Casco including coverage for the battery can be a complete car (car + battery)for the Renault ZE models offer.

Requirements battery insurance If the batteryinsurance is integrated in the policy, this should satisfy the following properties: Required coverage The battery should be ensured for: • all external incoming doom • Liability • Theft and loss • natural coverage (CATNAT) Allowable exclusions The followingexclusions are allowed on the batteryinsurance: • intent or deliberate recklessness •damage caused by an inherent defect • willful damage (damage caused by or arising from armed conflict, civil war, insurrection, civil commotion, insurrection, mutiny) • Terrorism •nuclear reactions RFS reserves as owner the battery the right to damages caused by willful misconduct or gross negligence to recover from the owner and / or the rider. Insured value The insured value of the battery is as follows: Model Excl. VAT Incl. Fluence ZE VAT €8110.00 € 9650.90 Kangoo ZE € 8100.00 €9639.00 € 3150.00 € 3748.50 Twizy Zoe TBDTBD The battery should be ensured including VAT

[Matthijs]

Depreciation battery The battery has a useful life of 10 years and has a new value system of1 year from date of first registration. Duringthis year the book value 100%. The first day after the first year, 10% and then depreciated10% per year divided equally per month. This means that, after the first year, monthly 10/12% linear depreciated value of the insured.Schematically, the value gradient for theKangoo and Fluence is as follows: AmortizationTable battery ZE € 9,000 € 8,000 € 7,000 € 6,000€ 5,000 € 4,000 € 3,000 € 2,000 € 1,000 € YearJanuary 1 Year Feb. 01 Years March 01 YearJanuary 4 Year 5 01 June 01 Year Year Year July 01 August 01 September 01 Year 10 Year 01 The insured value is equal to the above book value plus VAT. Recording beneficiary clause inthe policy must RFS as owner of the battery to be listed as the beneficiary. Any payment ofdamages by the insurer tokens must be paid directly to RFS in accordance with the then current book value. Distribution of damagetokens must be made inclusive of VAT.

[o00scorpion00o]

So this means that I would have to insure the battery that I'm renting off Renault ? that doesn't make sense does it ?

The insurance companies are going to love that!

[knoxie]

I have heard that they are classing it here in the UK in insurance group 10 now? WTF? they base this on you being more vulnerable? more vulnerable than what? a scooter or a motorcycle? I have a full motorcycle licence and a car too, I pay only 80 pounds a year to insure my XT600 Yamaha motorbike which is more powerful and far more likely to cause me an injury yet they will want a lot more to insure the Twizy? meh? Review and mention on the insurance below.

http://www.carbuzz.co.uk/blog/Renault-Twizy-176

[o00scorpion00o]

I have heard that they are classing it here in the UK in insurance group 10 now? WTF? they base this on you being more vulnerable? more vulnerable than what? a scooter or a motorcycle? I have a full motorcycle licence and a car too, I pay only 80 pounds a year to insure my XT600 Yamaha motorbike which is more powerful and far more likely to cause me an injury yet they will want a lot more to insure the Twizy? meh? Review and mention on the insurance below.

http://www.carbuzz.co.uk/blog/Renault-Twizy-176

Not being from the U.K I've no idea what the insurance groups mean ? can you say how much that would cost ?

But if the smart is in 2E and the Twizy is in 10, that seems like they are deliberately trying to ensure Twizzy is a failure!

[Matthijs]

Yesterday I drove the Twizy again and the Fluance. I made pictures of some components. The controller is the 48 V 275 A version. It has Hella motorcycle headlights and an Iskra electric motor.
http://www.iskra-ae.com/eng/ac_motors.php

[o00scorpion00o]

Nice thanks for the pics!

6kw/hr battery so about 130 ah ? i would like to get my hands on those cells!

How about someone rent one for a day and stick a few ping pouches in instead ? and take the good cells!

Only 48 volts fro 80 kph! not bad, so at least we know that at 72 volts you would probably get 65 mph ?

Hmm would make an interesting thing to hack, only your range would go down at 65 mph!

I wonder how many ah of Zippy compact you could fit in there ? I bet a bms for LiPo would cost a fortune!

[Matthijs]

http://www.renault-twizy.info/forum-twizy/moteur-t180.html

[o00scorpion00o]

Brilliant twizy porn!

I wonder why they didn't choose hub motors, surely they are more efficient than powering a gearbox ?

[Lessss]

no hubs is likely to avoid Chinese manufacture.

[Lebowski]

According to the link to the French page its an asynchronous one, so not a BLDC

[o00scorpion00o]

The motor looks pretty big ?

It has no cooling, so I wonder how much more power you could dump into it, even to hack the controller for more current for more torque!

Does it have halls ? maybe the controller could be tweaked like the infineons for 120% ?

[o00scorpion00o]

Someone on a forum here told me that he was in a Renault dealer and told him Renault are deciding wether to offer twizy with the battery or not!

Good or bad ?

That would cost almost 12,000! Euros ? 4 k extra would get you Zoe.

[Matthijs]

That is great! Because Zoe is without battery. And this opens up all kinds of opertunities!! Because now you can not tune a Twizy. Because the battery is not yours. So making changes is impossible. If you have more info please let me know! I would like to have one without a battery...

[o00scorpion00o]

That is great! Because Zoe is without battery. And this opens up all kinds of opertunities!! Because now you can not tune a Twizy. Because the battery is not yours. So making changes is impossible. If you have more info please let me know! I would like to have one without a battery...

I'm not sure they will offer it without the battery but with the option to buy twizy and battery together.

[Matthijs]

That is great! Because Zoe is without battery. And this opens up all kinds of opertunities!! Because now you can not tune a Twizy. Because the battery is not yours. So making changes is impossible. If you have more info please let me know! I would like to have one without a battery...

I'm not sure they will offer it without the battery but with the option to buy twizy and battery together.

IC. Well maybe the battery can be sold and with money make your own pack. Or change the pack. But I would still like to have my own pack to create freedom from Renault...

[o00scorpion00o]

That is great! Because Zoe is without battery. And this opens up all kinds of opertunities!! Because now you can not tune a Twizy. Because the battery is not yours. So making changes is impossible. If you have more info please let me know! I would like to have one without a battery...

I'm not sure they will offer it without the battery but with the option to buy twizy and battery together.

IC. Well maybe the battery can be sold and with money make your own pack. Or change the pack. But I would still like to have my own pack to create freedom from Renault...

Yes I know what you mean.

Still I think I would rather their battery including bms in there than to try and manage a load of Zippy compact!

You wouldn't fit as much LiFeP04.

[lee]

I went into a renault dealer today to buy a twizy. Until I came across the following problems.

1. When you insure the twizy you also have to insure the battery separately. The dealer did not know this and did not know the what value to place on the battery therefore allowing me to insure it. Prior to the I went on money supermarket .com and the cheapest price was £213 which is very nearly the cost of insuring my brand new audi q5. God knows how much it'l be with the battery costs.

2. When you sell your twizy in the future you will still be liable for the monthly leasing costs of the battery until the new owner receives a form from the leasing company, signs it and then sends it back to them. This could open up a huge can of worms if the new owner proves to be unreliable or just does a runner. The renault dealer was unaware of this.

3. If you want to terminate your battery lease prematurely you have to get the permission of the leasing company. They precede all of their information with the phrase 'if we agree to the lease being prematurely terminated'. WHAT IF THEY DONT AGREE TO TERMINATE THE LEASE ? The renault dealer did not know this

4. If you decide to sell the car within twelve months of your battery leasing agreement the penalty cost could be horrendous, i.e. into the high hundreds of pounds. the Calculation is c = tr x 0.38 x ut / ph - 4 Where c = compensation tr = the total amount of rentals for the period of hire ut = the unexpired term in months from the date of the return of the battery to the end of the period of hire ph = period of hire. PLUS theres a £65 admin cost PLUS excess mileage cost. The renault dealer did not know this

5. I asked the renault dealer what happens after say a four year lease had expired and you decided to sell. He didn't know.

6. There is a maximum leasing period of 6 years or 150000 miles. I asks dthe dealer 'Then what'? You've guessed it. He didn't know.

I walked out without buying one. I was genuinely thoroughly disappointed. I don't know what to do.

[o00scorpion00o]

Yeah I think Renault need to inform insurance companies and all the dealers about Twizy and all the crap people have to go through.

It would make life so much easier if they just gave people the option to buy it with the battery.

My insurance quote was 854 Euro's if you think your quote was bad!

[lee]

My quote for £213 was just for the car. I dread to think what it'l be for the car and battery. I was really keen on it before I found out all of the above problems. You can buy a vw UP for only a £1000 more and that's a proper car, that does roughly 70mpg