Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Price!!

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Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Price!!

Post by deVries » Apr 19, 2012 11:44 am

We should seriously consider doing a group buy on this module... It is an amazing low price! :shock: 8)
Doctorbass wrote: Price :283.3$ for 7S3P
Great find Doc! :!: :shock: :D

These are an even better price than bare cells!!! :!: :twisted:

That's about $13.50/cell vs about $20 *already* professionally built into a stackable 7s3p module! :shock: 8)

Someone needs to sample these & then we can do a group buy of the minimum 100 order UNLESS they will sell in lower quantities.

I'll have battery $$$$ money next month in May, so I'm game for getting in on this deal. It's my belief these cells would be top quality, since these cells are already in modules as a basic building block for the final battery assembly & connections. It's very doubtful these would have any defects, imo. 8) These are probably surplus stock, because demand never materialized as expected & orders were canceled, imo. :wink:

Someone who already knows their contact should ask for the weight & dimensions of these 7s3p modules. Please! :idea: :mrgreen:

Image
Last edited by deVries on Aug 21, 2013 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Group Buy? Steveo Dr.Bass found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by neptronix » Apr 19, 2012 1:02 pm

Another thing you might be interested in is their 20AH 36v and 48V packs.. i was quoted $280 & $360 for each respectively.
But the BMS is only setup for 20-40A. You tack on about $47 onto that cost for a 50-60A BMS.

I talked to victpower & you can order a sample instead of 300 units..

These could consist of poor quality cells, but who knows. they are worth exploring.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » Apr 19, 2012 1:20 pm

neptronix wrote:Another thing you might be interested in is their 20AH 36v and 48V packs.. i was quoted $280 & $360 for each respectively.
But the BMS is only setup for 20-40A. You tack on about $47 onto that cost for a 50-60A BMS.

I talked to victpower & you can order a sample instead of 300 units..
The picture I found & posted above that Victpower provides for the 7s3p looks like a quality product. The inspection date is in 2011, so I'm thinking these are considered to be outdated 'now' to put in a new vehicle manufactured in 2012.

The price you are given for the 20Ah batteries is *not* nearly as good as this 21 cell pack of 7s3p. (Maybe 11-12 cells for 36v & 14-15 for the 48v $360 versus $283 for 21 cells. It's an excellent deep-discounted price for the 7s3p or 21 bare cells stripped out.) :D

If someone hasn't already sampled these by May, then I will do the honors. This is too good a deal to pass-up, imo. It's much cheaper than buying the bare cells at this point. :lol: 8)
Last edited by deVries on Apr 26, 2012 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by neptronix » Apr 19, 2012 1:35 pm

Yes, but you save yourself the pain in the ass of assembling the pack with a ready made 36, 48, and 72v pack.

20AH is a really good size for eBike duty. Not many people want much more than that.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by The Mighty Volt » Apr 19, 2012 1:46 pm

Subscribed.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by cwah » Apr 19, 2012 1:47 pm

What is a 7s3p module? what so special about them?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » Apr 19, 2012 2:15 pm

cwah wrote:What is a 7s3p module? what so special about them?
1st - There are 21 cells that could be stripped out & repackaged for about $13.50 each. That's $6 dollars cheaper per cell than just buying the bare cell. :P

2nd - This appears to be a top quality package or module for building-up a battery such as 7s (as is 25v) or 14s (2 of these modules 50v) or 21s (3 of these modules 75v) or 28s (100v) & beyond... based on 3.6v per cell top-off or full surface charge.

3rd - You don't have to build a battery using these, since you just series connect to get your final voltage.

4th - 60Ah is doable for a moped or motorcycle (if you volt-up for the mileage you want between charges). For a bicycle it's awesome, because you won't have to cycle the battery often & have the hassle of recharging nearly as often as a 20Ah vs 60Ah.

5th - This $283 price is just a bonfire deal for now! It's easy to think in 60Ah terms vs 20Ah... :twisted: NOW, I can have more distance & throttle power for "thrust" & speed to play with & not worry about having to recharge my battery too! :P 8)

6th - You could extend your battery life even further vs 20Ah, since you won't have to drain it down to lower voltages between charges or have to charge as often. For the price this is amazing, imo! :mrgreen:
Last edited by deVries on Apr 19, 2012 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by cwah » Apr 19, 2012 2:20 pm

What's the battery chemistry? is it A123?

And also about wh/kg? Is it heavy? It would be for my bike, I prefer to have something light.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by The Mighty Volt » Apr 19, 2012 2:22 pm

What is a "Bauer" module test?

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 19, 2012 2:28 pm

cwah wrote:What's the battery chemistry? is it A123?

And also about wh/kg? Is it heavy? It would be for my bike, I prefer to have something light.

Yes it's A123 cells and A123 PACK !

Please read and see the video.. it is clear! :wink:

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 19, 2012 2:31 pm

The Mighty Volt wrote:What is a "Bauer" module test?

I dont know.. maybe a combinaison of the movie "24" and JACK richard's tests on EVTV and Bauer...
to get Jack Bauer's products!

lol

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » Apr 19, 2012 2:38 pm

cwah wrote:What's the battery chemistry? is it A123?

And also about wh/kg? Is it heavy? It would be for my bike, I prefer to have something light.
Yes, A123.

I'll check on the weight and dimensions next week. Hopefully, someone else will post these weight/dimension answers before me! :D I'll order samples next month in May *IF* someone hasn't already done this. (I have to wait for my eBike cash infusion :P, so I can't buy any samples till May.) Someone can beat me to it, I hope! :mrgreen:
The Mighty Volt wrote:What is a "Bauer" module test?
Good question. We need to find A123 experts. :idea: :?:

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by cwah » Apr 19, 2012 2:41 pm

Doctorbass wrote:
cwah wrote:What's the battery chemistry? is it A123?

And also about wh/kg? Is it heavy? It would be for my bike, I prefer to have something light.

Yes it's A123 cells and A123 PACK !

Please read and see the video.. it is clear! :wink:

Doc
Where is the video? and the cell specs? I'm interested if the wh/kg is good :)

I like the ability to configure to any setup I want. Would probably start with 21s1p :lol:

How many AH/cell?
Last edited by cwah on Apr 19, 2012 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 19, 2012 2:42 pm

20Ah per cell

3p = 60Ah

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by cwah » Apr 19, 2012 2:46 pm

Found the complete specs:
"A123 20ah prismatic is: 480g, and 7.0X166X227mm or 205.6 cm^3"

So 150wh/kg. That's niiiice :)

But with 21 cells I would end up with 10kg battery. Would love to have half of this weight. Is there any 10AH battery for sale?
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Green Machine » Apr 19, 2012 2:51 pm

Does anyone know the dimensions of that pack? IT may be a perfect fit for a bike I am building to sale and in that case will need 50 of them.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 19, 2012 2:53 pm

The Mighty Volt wrote:What is a "Bauer" module test?
I'm your detective guys 8)

I think i found a certain Josh bauer wich is often refered to in many battery test about thermal effect:

I found his name in this article:

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... 2011_p.pdf

there is Richard Shosey a test ingeneer at A123 system that is a project manager at Bauer controls : http://www.linkedin.com/pub/richard-shosey/16/428/30



Here is Bauer control website:http://www.bauercontrols.com/Bauer_Cont ... lcome.html

They say: "We solve problems"..

I guess they should have alot of job these days :lol:

Doc
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by The Mighty Volt » Apr 19, 2012 3:04 pm

There is also a guy in Ireland who uses the online name of "Jack Bauer"- and he has built an EV.

Coincidence? Possibly.

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by miro13car » Apr 19, 2012 3:50 pm

I would love to know what test Bauer conducted on this 7S3P pack
It is definitely gamble to buy such pack, cells harvested from those packs can be better on average than sold separate ones

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » Apr 19, 2012 4:01 pm

cwah wrote:
Doctorbass wrote: Yes it's A123 cells and A123 PACK !

Please read and see the video.. it is clear! :wink:

Doc
Where is the video?
Here is the post Doctorbass did with the video:
Doctorbass wrote:Victpower ALSO OFFER ASSEMBLED BATTERY that look like the same as FOR TEH CHEVY VOLT MODULE "! :shock:

at cheap price!!
Dear:Steveo
> Here still has some other A123 modules , they are 7S3P 42S3P 1S1P 6S13P
>
> Pls download as a attached
>
> Price :42.8$ for 1s1p
>
> Price :283.3$ for 7S3P
>
> Price :1600.0$ for 42s3p
>
> Price :1052.3$ for 6S13P
>


http://www.victpower.cn/product/5527665 ... odule.html

http://www.victpower.cn/product/5527786 ... odule.html

http://www.victpower.cn/product/5527716 ... 7s3p_.html

here is the price list Steveo got form them

not bad!! they already have the connections!!:

The 7s3p look interesting! 4 of them give close to 100V pack and 60Ah !... and for... 1100$!

see at 20sec of this vid how they look like when asseembled:


JUMP TO 20sec and to 2min54




We see these packs are exactly the same as Victpower are offering.

Another showing the ingeneering fo that battery:


Jump at 1:00



Doc

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by bigmoose » Apr 19, 2012 5:30 pm

I don't think this was posted. Here is what these modules may look like inside, and what accessories to look for:
A123DevopmentSummary2010-BatteryPackExploded.pdf
(681.13 KiB) Downloaded 441 times
Here is a frame grab of the laser welding the Tabs on the A123 Modules:
A123LaserWeldingTabs.jpg
A123LaserWeldingTabs.jpg (45.75 KiB) Viewed 7430 times
BTW, this is opinion, my opinion... I think these modules hitting the grey market shows the desperate financial state of A123. First they dumped loose cells, now they are dumping the modules. All off shore and in China, so (again IMHO) they are free of all legal obligations to ensure these are only sold to "qualified" individuals by US law.

I also think there is some mix of quality in the cells. If I had to guess I would think the cells sold months ago with cut tabs might be the poorest. They were dumped first (perhaps) and neutered by a company that was more healthy. Then they dumped production stockpiles that were aging. These cells may not have had all the QA done on them. So they may have undetected problems. Now I would bet that cells that made it into modules are darn good cells. Hopefully the BMS didn't kill them sitting on the shelf.

Also note that A123 may have laser welded tabs on the modules. Till someone takes it apart we don't know the tab length. I would not assume full tabs after you "cut them apart" to make 1P strings.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by deVries » Apr 19, 2012 6:34 pm

bigmoose wrote:BTW, this is opinion, my opinion... I think these modules hitting the grey market shows the desperate financial state of A123. First they dumped loose cells, now they are dumping the modules. All off shore and in China, so (again IMHO) they are free of all legal obligations to ensure these are only sold to "qualified" individuals by US law.
Wholly crap! Hopefully, there is *not* some US federal laws regulating & restricting these batteries to "qualified" buyers & individuals? :shock: :?: Probably what you meant is there are legal but private distribution agreements for the supply chain of various buyers of A123 in the USA, so there are private legal agreements about distribution that have to be fulfilled to avoid lawsuits or unhappy distributors & customer "captive product" contracts. Exporting from China back to the US avoids these legal pitfalls by selling through 3rd party resellers located in China. Yep, these seem like reasonable explanations to me too.
Hopefully the BMS didn't kill them sitting on the shelf.
This should not be a concern, hopefully, since this specific reseller company is selling the cells with a supposed 1 year warranty whatever that is. Perhaps the modules will come with that warranty too? :?:

Certainly, each module will be checked before shipping for any dead cells or other basic detectable failures that are known to occur, imo. IMO. :)

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by x88x » Apr 19, 2012 7:12 pm

deVries wrote:
bigmoose wrote:BTW, this is opinion, my opinion... I think these modules hitting the grey market shows the desperate financial state of A123. First they dumped loose cells, now they are dumping the modules. All off shore and in China, so (again IMHO) they are free of all legal obligations to ensure these are only sold to "qualified" individuals by US law.
Wholly crap! Hopefully, there is *not* some US federal laws regulating & restricting these batteries to "qualified" buyers & individuals? :shock: :?:
No, he's referencing A123's internal policy to not deal with DIYers.
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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by MitchJi » Apr 19, 2012 7:25 pm

Hi,

If the cells are good and usable as is or its practical to separate the welded cells (thanks bigmoose) it might be awesome price :D.
deVries wrote:I'll check on the weight and dimensions next week...
I said might be an awesome price because depending on the weight and dimensions the shipping premium could make up for the cheaper price. So when you inquire about size and weight please ask about shipping prices.
deVries wrote:It's my belief these cells would be top quality, since these cells are already in modules as a basic building block for the final battery assembly & connections. It's very doubtful these would have any defects, imo. 8) These are probably surplus stock, because demand never materialized as expected & orders were canceled, imo. :wink:

The picture I found & posted above that Victpower provides for the 7s3p looks like a quality product. The inspection date is in 2011, so I'm thinking these are considered to be outdated 'now' to put in a new vehicle manufactured in 2012.
bigmoose wrote:Hopefully the BMS didn't kill them sitting on the shelf.
deVries wrote: This should not be a concern, hopefully, since this specific reseller company is selling the cells with a supposed 1 year warranty whatever that is. Perhaps the modules will come with that warranty too? :?:

Certainly, each module will be checked before shipping for any dead cells or other basic detectable failures that are known to occur, imo. IMO. :)
You are making a LOT of assumptions that could turn out to be wishful thinking.
deVries wrote:For a bicycle it's awesome, because you won't have to cycle the battery often & have the hassle of recharging nearly as often as a 20Ah vs 60Ah.
OTOH if you only need 20AH you will be hauling around the size and weight of 20AH SLA :P.
Best Wishes!

Mitch


The best quality batteries and lowest priced batteries for DIY EV's are tier 1 OEM Quality Cells from salvaged (wrecked) EV packs. Two examples are Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf packs.

Nissan Leaf Module specs are here
Chevy Volt Pack Info - Salvage 16kwh Packs Under $2k here
The cells are rated conservatively by GM at 7.8C, Yabert's tests of Volt packs on the DiyEv car forum suggest a higher C rate, 15+ C!.

$1,400 plus $360 freight. Still over $1k less than new lead!

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Re: Group Buy? Dr.Bass Steveo found 7s3p Module! Awesome Pri

Post by bigmoose » Apr 19, 2012 7:29 pm

Right. This is why companies put statements such as this in their terms and conditions of sale that they typically now make us agree to, by checking a box, before the purchase order is approved.
6. Buyer’s Use. Buyer assumes sole responsibility for analyzing and determining the suitability of any services and goods supplied by Seller including all parts and components and Buyer agrees that it is not relying on Seller in making such determination even if Seller provided assistance, guidance or design. Buyer assumes full responsibility for any particular use or purpose. Buyer will not order or use any goods or services unless it is satisfied that the goods and services are suitable for Buyer’s use and conform to all of its requirements. Buyer agrees to store and use all goods and services in a safe manner. Seller is cautioning Buyer that not all products are stable under all operating and storage conditions. ... etc.
Where the sticky point is, I was told, is the determination of the suitability of the buyer. In other words, is the buyer competent to assess the true risk of his purchase. This is where the buyer can sue the seller for not fully disclosing all potential hazards with the product. ... think extension of the "I didn't know the coffee was hot enough to burn me "down there..." in other words saying to the seller, "You should have been smart enough not to sell this hazardous product to me..."
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