Monster motor

[Andje]

Well esoria, I must admit I am at a loss..
It won't help you, but here is a link to a vid of me spinning up my motor with the KHB. I don't get the same noise as you at all at low rpm. Maybe it has something to do with the particular combination of the cromotor and the Kelly, but this doesn't seem to make sense to me... If you hadn't tried everything I'd still be guessing at halls or software...

[John in CR]

Esoria,

If sending it back to Kelly, then I would also spend a bit more $ and upgrade to a higher current model. This motor will want and need more current than your other motors. Have you tried another controller on that motor yet to be certain something isn't wrong with the motor?

John

[toolman2]

have you got the right setting for 120/60 deg halls? you can sometimes have a wrong hall/phase combo that is kinda ridable and ive been fooled for a bit.
it would be good to try all the hall combos, even though the colours match, following john in cr's officially correct hall instructions
but failing that try another controller, you can have a partly blown phase, i had some high side fets blows on a kelly and it ran poorly giving fault codes.

also i notice you get the old "regen that you didnt ask for" trick from the kelly when you lift off and re-apply throttle, -really annoying kelly habit that one.

[nechaus]

To me, it seems like it was incorrect wiring. phase and hall sensor wiring....
That sound, does not sound right

[esoria]

Hallo Boys, i have some new interesting info, and very starnge results!!!!
I have always try with this setup Hubscooter+kelly khb 400A and 38S A123 20AH, or 24S A123 20AH (the same cell modulated with different serials)
With this setup motor is very very slow in startup, and when i open fullthrottle, controller go immediatly in error and cut out power...
Yesterday night with one friends, we want to try with little pack of A123 6.6A 18650 38S (125V)....
And...
WOW...the motor start to fly!!!! I touch 130kmh in a second, and controller now cutoff only if i open very very fast throttle, if i open little more smoother on startup, after 50kmh i can open full and motor start to scream and kick me ALOT more strong than Cromotor or any other 5403-05 i have try from now...is incredible power!!!!
I'm very happy from this news, but, i can't understand how is possible this? 20A of A123 prysmatic is failed? THe strange thing i never see drop from a big pack, seems current do'nt flow good and controller go in error, igo alot more strong with 38S 6.6A pack than my big 38S a123 prysmatic..
On No load motor touch 210Kmh!!!!! on the road i can touch only 130kmh but i have half throttle more!!!
Seems we found first problem of puzzle (battery no good)
Remains the weak power from 400A controller, because i see only 120A on cycle analyst, and the bad noyse ALL KHB make...
The hall combination\phase is perfect, i try all 36 possibilities, and nothing all the same bad sound from all 3 KHB...
If i put a KBL, is smooth, super smooth and silent, i don't know what i can do with this KHB, i already talk with Kelly and for kelly controller is good...
But for me no, because if i put KBL every motor go alot better and make alot more power...
My khb 400A go like other KBL 150A, and this make me crazy is not possible pay 1000$ and go slower...If i can buy immediatly KBL 136V, but no more in production

[esoria]

have you got the right setting for 120/60 deg halls? you can sometimes have a wrong hall/phase combo that is kinda ridable and ive been fooled for a bit.
it would be good to try all the hall combos, even though the colours match, following john in cr's officially correct hall instructions
but failing that try another controller, you can have a partly blown phase, i had some high side fets blows on a kelly and it ran poorly giving fault codes.

also i notice you get the old "regen that you didnt ask for" trick from the kelly when you lift off and re-apply throttle, -really annoying kelly habit that one.

i try all combination of colour, and this is correct i'm sure, what you want to say with:"also i notice you get the old " old KHB version?
Exist new KHB version? Yes i notice when you open att full throttle and after you make partial throttle, controller try to slow down the wheel with apply little regen, but for kelly this is normal operation...
I want only understand why this controller make this bad sound and make less power than KBL
Is impossible i have 3 Khb broken, but is possible if i have a series with problem, from xxx serial to xxx serial...
But i can only suppose

[esoria]

Boys i have a crazy idea in my mind, if this motor have a very low inductance and this is the problem with controller cutoff, i can create big resistence with alot of wire turn in a spiral for create more resistence, only for check if controller go better?

[toolman2]

i didnt mean an old model or anything, i just mean kellys in general seem to regen when you apply the throttle after high rpm.
i notice you have this also, ive been trying to get kelly to fix it as its real harsh on my bike and its frigging annoying. and regen is turned off..

yep inductors make life easier for the controller but they will cost you power.

[esoria]

Hallo boys some interesting news!!!!
Yesterday i make some run with hubscooter motor at 125V A123 7A Pack, and 3 thoroidal inductance on the phase motor, with inductance i solve the problem of cut-off of the kelly, now controller go good, i hit 145kmh on the road, no flat little downhill (motor no load speed is 210kmh), but battery run near cut-off 95V 35V sag!!!! I need mooore big battery pack, maybe 16A nanotech 120V is enough, i read from CA 140A, and for 400A kelly i think is good, because 140X2.6=364A phase and this is very near to 400A declared from Kelly, no? In uphill i hit 131kmh, and i read 100-110A continuous from CA

[pchen92]

Hi,

Do you have a video of it running ? I am very septic on the top speed. For 130km/h uphill you need at least 18kW (on the flat) and 100V*110A (you claim) =10kW.
Something is wrong with your CA. Have you tried with a GPS or a bike speedo ? At high speed, the CA can lost the synchronisation (so the speed is wrong).

But for sure this is a crazy beast

[esoria]

No video for now, but i want prepare soon, yes i use only CA, i hope don't loose sincro, but i want use gps too next ride
In my experience 10kw out from 9C is heat, 10kw from a 65mm stator/magnet of a 22kg of motor is Torque!
The same power can make totally different experience if come out from a totally different motor

[nechaus]

have you got the right setting for 120/60 deg halls? you can sometimes have a wrong hall/phase combo that is kinda ridable and ive been fooled for a bit.
it would be good to try all the hall combos, even though the colours match, following john in cr's officially correct hall instructions
but failing that try another controller, you can have a partly blown phase, i had some high side fets blows on a kelly and it ran poorly giving fault codes.

also i notice you get the old "regen that you didnt ask for" trick from the kelly when you lift off and re-apply throttle, -really annoying kelly habit that one.

i try all combination of colour, and this is correct i'm sure, what you want to say with:"also i notice you get the old " old KHB version?
Exist new KHB version? Yes i notice when you open att full throttle and after you make partial throttle, controller try to slow down the wheel with apply little regen, but for kelly this is normal operation...
I want only understand why this controller make this bad sound and make less power than KBL
Is impossible i have 3 Khb broken, but is possible if i have a series with problem, from xxx serial to xxx serial...
But i can only suppose

Your not running your motor in reverse?

I noticed with all my Kellycontrollers, if i use reverse function and hit the throttle, back off and hit it again, for about a split second, regen kicks in..
It shows about .01 % regen if you keep doing it.

properly wired, it does not do this with mine.

I also have the kbl, im testing out the noise reduction function on my magic pie, it makes it super silent.

[esoria]

No, i run my motor in forward, and KHB don't have noise reduction option, but i think all KHB make this noise, the controller KHB seems alot more noisy and conservative with power than old KBL, my kbl 136V 75-150A, easily overshot 200A from CA, my khb 200A, never go more than 150A CA...
I think if i want 300A from battery, i think i have to buy at least 700A version KHB controller

[Arlo1]

Welcome to the challange to get to the master bldc level my friend!

[toolman2]

Welcome to the challange to get to the master bldc level my friend!

yes indeed, but i thought there was not much difference, just a can bus? and the extra multi pin round plug on the front.
and if you go off continuous phase amps for both, then they should be the same..

but nechaus im suffeing badly from that annoying 150a regen spike too and the dudes at kelly are doing new firmware next week?, but im not running reverse, i thought kellys allways did it, im all ears if you have a solution.

[esoria]

i'm very tired, i think i solve problem with inductace, but yesterday i put a second pack of A123 7amp 125V of my friend in parallel, for have much power because with only one pack the battery sag very bad...
And now controller cut-off again, maybe for less sag and more power input
Seems if i put more volts\power, i need more inductance, and add more coil, reduce power too!!!
Is a negative vortex, maybe is more simple go at 90V and no 125V at all cost, less voltage less problem, i think....or i have to change this motor, because seems is not possible go this motor at 125V

[esoria]

Possible i have no chance to make this motor run at 125V and put out 30KW???? No controller on the planet right now can do this? Is so strange for me think this, please boys give me a solution!

[John in CR]

... please boys give me a solution!

Send me the motor and I'll sort it out for you. Then you can come for a vacation and ride it where such an ebike is legal.

The axle flats the same distance as mine, so it should be a direct drop in replacement.

John

[esoria]

Hihihihi thanks john i will think about this solution
And if you come in Rome where this ebike is illegal i think is alot of fun too!!!!

[esoria]

Ok Boys after 100000 try, i arrive at this conclusion, this motor can go at maximum of 80V, at this voltage and with little inductance on phase wire, i put out the controller 240A battery side, very good power on acceleration and 138max speed, if i try to use even little more voltage, the motor surge too much amp and too fast and controller go in error...
One strange thing is, why i can put out 240A at 80V, and only 130-140A at 125V? when i use more voltage usually other motor surge more amp because i move curve power more high, but this motor surge alot more amp and go more strong with less voltage

[toolman2]

One strange thing is, why i can put out 240A at 80V, and only 130-140A at 125V? when i use more voltage usually other motor surge more amp because i move curve power more high, but this motor surge alot more amp and go more strong with less voltage

its cos the controller chops them both up (pwm) to produce about the same result (say 18kw) for the motor and fets in both cases.

and i agree it seems like the low resistance and inductance is hard on the controller, the current rise time is too short for
it to regulate smoothly, be worth seeing if kelly can help?

[esoria]

Kelly can't help because the problem is not on the controller but in the low inductance of the motor, but ok i can go at 80-85V 240A, is good enough for me, maybe in future i can try to put more amp in the motor with bigger controller for more fast acceleration, but i understand is impossible go up with the volts with this motor

[John in CR]

Kelly can't help because the problem is not on the controller but in the low inductance of the motor, but ok i can go at 80-85V 240A, is good enough for me, maybe in future i can try to put more amp in the motor with bigger controller for more fast acceleration, but i understand is impossible go up with the volts with this motor

I guess we call it a tie for now. I probably have a controller advantage with my Steveo special, and you have an advantage with the 65mm stator. Is it really a lamination stack of 65mm? If so, it must be a one turn winding. The guys playing with the ebike wind motors and big wheels have no idea what they're missing.

John

[Harold in CR]

Maybe this is what you guys need ??? 450V at 3500 Amps

shiva.jpg (37.61 KiB) Viewed 276 times

[Arlo1]

Maybe this is what you guys need ??? 450V at 3500 Amps

shiva.jpg

Unfortunatly they need brushed motors for that!