Direct drive or geared?

[deVries]

OK, OK...np. Just making sure. The description said aluminium & SS frame. Wanted to be sure we weren't missing something great. I'm not as in love with that bike anyway.

It's Ok to keep looking, but I think the two 20" bikes we found already are top-notch. Btw, check your PM for an update on possibilities.

[lifereinspired]

Will do! In the meantime...I thought I'd answer a few questions that are still outstanding.

You know, I'm fine to keep the trailering/Siena speeds to 10-14mph w/ 18 as an absolute cap. I can't really imagine wanting to take Siena much faster, I doubt she'd feel comfortable and I'd worry more about sudden stops, unexpected issues requiring quick response, etc at higher speeds anyway. Not only is she our dog...part of the family...but her function as a service dog is extremely unique and losing her would be well, just not an option right now. So, I like the lower speeds. Having said all that...what would you be thinking as max speeds for the entourage of me, bike, dog in trailer if it was the Origin8? I just am curious of your perspective of the difference in the tolerances between the bikes.

Secondly, we DID go looking at other bikes today! Went to a couple of other LBS's, Steven test rode several different types and I test "sat" on several of them. This included what was my original "holy grail" bike style, the crank forward. I'm SO GLAD WE TOOK THE TIME TO DO THIS! I was feeling a little unsure last night about everything...just in terms of bike style, etc and wondering if falling in love with the Dahon's was a "fluke". Well, it wasn't. The more bikes we tried (via our two methods...me sitting, trying out different seat positions and where that made my legs go on the pedals at both extremes) and Steven whizzing around the parking lot dodging other test riders...the more we came back to loving the 20" Dahons. So, I feel more confident than ever that 20" is the way I want to go (leaving Steven the opportunity to speak for himself...although the impression I get is that he wants a Dahon ASAP ).

Now, question for you. Do you have any other measurements of the Origin8 bike (particularly standover and wheelbase) than what is on their website? I'd really love to be able to compare the two equally in that respect. Also, reading the ebike mod of the other Dahon was awesome. I'm not all the way through the thread but it's super cool.

And now to @warrah (does that work on these forums?). I really wanted to thank you for your post. Reading through this thread an picking out those questions that had been lost in the barrage of questions that I've had was really amazing and I appreciate it so much. I also appreciated hearing your perspective on the different engines and how to "trick" out the DD if that's the way we go and also your perspective on the reason for making a custom ebike - because ultimately, it's to get the components that I love and figure out how to make them work together (like keeping the speed down). So, thank you for taking the time to share.

[deVries]

You know, I'm fine to keep the trailering/Siena speeds to 10-14mph w/ 18 as an absolute cap. I can't really imagine wanting to take Siena much faster, I doubt she'd feel comfortable and I'd worry more about sudden stops, unexpected issues requiring quick response, etc at higher speeds anyway. Not only is she our dog...part of the family...but her function as a service dog is extremely unique and losing her would be well, just not an option right now. So, I like the lower speeds. Having said all that...what would you be thinking as max speeds for the entourage of me, bike, dog in trailer if it was the Origin8? I just am curious of your perspective of the difference in the tolerances between the bikes.

Before becoming an eBike "nutcase" I used to ride bicycles a lot before 2008. My average speed was 18mph with 1,000's of miles peddling, and I road with some hills to climb too. I can't imagine wanting to trailer my 43-lb Border Collie at those speeds for the reasons of safety you noted. I was only thinking I could go 18mph on a wide street that is flat & straight with no traffic to contend with that is a 1/2 mile or more in length. Otherwise, I think 14mph would be my limit **IF** the trailer & bike riding characteristics can handle that too. That would require some testing in an empty parking lot. There is no real way to estimate the handling & speed issues, since it will depend on your riding abilities, the bike & trailer, and how Siena behaves riding along too.

Going above 14mph is certainly going to begin entering a zone of knowing for certain your limits ahead of time by gradually increasing your speeds in the empty parking lot to understand what you can do. Maybe you will be limited to much less than 14mph too?

[lifereinspired]

Maybe you will be limited to much less than 14mph too?

Yes, this is what I'm thinking too...at least for awhile. Slow and steady and enjoying the safe ride is better than fast and...crashed??

I plan to start much slower for both our sakes (Siena's AND mine )...I was more interested in (and thinking that you were describing) the limits of that particular setup (Dahon chromo with motor, me, dog and trailer) in that part of the thread rather than my hopes for the speeds that I want to start out at. I hope that difference makes sense. Knowing the probable limits of the ebike setup I choose is completely different than wanting to push those limits starting out. I just want to be able to ride again...and I might find that a moderate but steady pace is what Siena and I enjoy most! And that's what the whole journey is about for me...enjoying this experience, feeling safe and in control of my "rig" and feeling like "I can do this" with the power that the ebike motor will give me, since my body, at least right now, won't.

[deVries]

One of two main reasons to consider the "Bully" over the Dahon is the reason Chalo gave about Dahon's weaker frame by simply being a folder.

AND secondly, most definitely as important too, Bully vs Dahon is my concern or preference for location: the batteries & controller can be mounted in the most ideal location there is: In The Center of The Bully Bike between the top tube & lower tube. Really, that is perfect! It does not get any better than that. The Dahon can not do that, IMO, because it folds in that location. The weight would be in the rear, because your arm strength is questionable to handle weight forward flopping on the handlebars or front wheel. That extra weight forward can whip & flop the steering & cause a crash having that much weight forward on the handlebar stem area or front wheel. One little distraction or avoidance or unseen pothole and BAMM you're going down in a fall cause the steering got whipped around & the weight forward is wiggling you "by the tail" out of control to prevent a crash. Call it Snake Dancing The Wiggle Warp & Flop Squeeze Down! So, the Dahon will need all the battery weight in the rear, because your arm strength is not so good. IMO.

[lifereinspired]

One of two main reasons to consider the "Bully" over the Dahon is the reason Chalo gave about Dahon's weaker frame by simply being a folder.

AND secondly, most definitely as important too, Bully vs Dahon is my concern or preference for location: the batteries & controller can be mounted in the most ideal location there is: In The Center of The Bully Bike between the top tube & lower tube. Really, that is perfect! It does not get any better than that. The Dahon can not do that, IMO, because it folds in that location. The weight would be in the rear, because your arm strength is questionable to handle weight forward flopping on the handlebars or front wheel. That extra weight forward can whip & flop the steering & cause a crash having that much weight forward on the handlebar stem area or front wheel. One little distraction or avoidance or unseen pothole and BAMM you're going down in a fall cause the steering got whipped around & the weight forward is wiggling you out of control to prevent a crash. So, the Dahon will need all the battery weight in the rear, IMO.

That makes sense about having too much weight up front. So battery in the rear on the Dahon it would be (similar to the one linked to in a previous post). My concern about the Bully has become geometry - size wise. I've read through the geometry carefully and while the standover is completely fine (definitely not as low as I would like in terms of having wanted a "low step" design) the seatpost top to ground measurement is 26.1. Now, I need a seatpost (obviously) and I'll need some sort of comfort sprung saddle which is going to be thick (height wise). While I can probably make that work...it won't have me as flat footed as the Dahon and I've really taken to liking that stance. It also means absolutely no possibility of adding any sort of suspension seatpost as that adds at least another two inches to the height. All of that brings be back to the concern of not being able to try out the bike itself before buying it and I'm anxious that it'll end up having the saddle too high for me to be comfortable (I'm getting pretty worried about it). And that, I don't know what to do about...how to either alleviate the concern and make sure it will work or any modifications that will ensure that it will work. Here's a link to the geometry sheet: http://www.jbimporters.com/web/links/69193%20Bully.pdf One question I have about that...I'm assuming that the standover and ground to seatpost heights are with the stock 1.95 tires, right? I mean they wouldn't add that on top of those numbers, would they??

We're still deciding...and I do see the elegance of putting the batter between the frames...but not being able to try it out especially with the previous problems I've had with seat height also have me scared of the Bully. So, I don't know yet which way we'll go. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the PM'd questions when you get the free time.

[deVries]

My concern about the Bully has become geometry - size wise. I've read through the geometry carefully and while the standover is completely fine (definitely not as low as I would like in terms of having wanted a "low step" design) the seatpost top to ground measurement is 26.1. Now, I need a seatpost (obviously) and I'll need some sort of comfort sprung saddle which is going to be thick (height wise). While I can probably make that work...it won't have me as flat footed as the Dahon and I've really taken to liking that stance. It also means absolutely no possibility of adding any sort of suspension seatpost as that adds at least another two inches to the height. All of that brings be back to the concern of not being able to try out the bike itself before buying it and I'm anxious that it'll end up having the saddle too high for me to be comfortable (I'm getting pretty worried about it). And that, I don't know what to do about...how to either alleviate the concern and make sure it will work or any modifications that will ensure that it will work. Here's a link to the geometry sheet: http://www.jbimporters.com/web/links/69193%20Bully.pdf One question I have about that...I'm assuming that the standover and ground to seatpost heights are with the stock 1.95 tires, right? I mean they wouldn't add that on top of those numbers, would they??

Yes, the standover height takes into account the tires too.

Here's something interesting: The seatpost length is very different for each bike. Dahon is just under 23" vs a much shorter 15.75" for the Bully. That is 7.25" inches shorter in favor of the Bully. So, the Dahon will be extending out 7.25" inches more than the Bully can go from wherever that starting point is from the base of the seat-tube. Sooo, what is the tip of the seat post to ground with tire for the Dahon, as I'm not sure how to account for that longer inner seat post that slides into the seat tube??? I would not be surprised if there is less than an inch difference between the two bikes.

Let's explore this further: The Dahon says 26.3" from seat-top to pedal as the minimum distance. The seat tube length is 16.5" for the Bully to the center of the bottom bracket. Add 6.7" to 16.5" for the 170mm crankarm & you get 23.2" which leaves 3.1" inches more for the set post to extend on the Bully to match that 26.3" seat-top on the Dahon. Seems like the Bully can match that or perhaps be less than 26.3" inches??? What is also interesting is the Bully has a much more slack/relaxed seat-tube angle, so it's extending at an angle closer to the ground vs the Dahon's higher angled position.

What this means to me is there's not much seat to ground difference between the two bikes. Maybe a 1/2 inch to one inch difference at most.

You wear shoes plus the tires press down some, so does this make any difference between the two bikes??? I doubt it very much, imo, with your inseam of about 29" inches.

Now, think about that issue. You're going to have to extend the seat tube on the Dahon further because you don't want to be "squished" down to rotating at 26.3" inches minimum distance from the pedals. You need to extend the seat post to more like 2" inches further out to 28.3" inches to accommodate your legs from not bending at the knees too much. The Dahon tube angle is less slack, so you are angling higher away from the ground with the Dahon than you will be with the Bully the more you extend that seat post upward.

I could have "mirrored" the math or my thinking, so check it out too!

[John in CR]

You both loved the Dahon, so get it. Only get something different if you like it better. Put a small geared hubbie on the front and the bike will remain as much like the bike you tested as possible. Don't forget torque arms.

The only hitch to look out for in the plan is bringing your battery on the plane. Thanks to companies using some of the more unstable varieties of lithium chemistry, those with perfectly safe lithium batteries are paying the price with onerous restrictions on transport of batteries. I'd suggest avoiding that hassle and make arangements to pick up a battery in Europe rather than try to carry one on the plane with you.

John

[deVries]

The only hitch to look out for in the plan is bringing your battery on the plane.

If the airport authorities find the batteries, then that luggage will be left behind or they may even make you get off the plane too.

But honestly, I think it was wishful thinking that Rachel would risk riding her eBike before or after very critical surgery that is almost a do or die situation. No one can risk that, of course.

Check your PM Rachel for the super deal I found.

A bike expert told me:

Dahons are also nothing fancy. The only thing wrong with them is that they fold, which is also the only reason to get one.