Greyborg Cromotor Hubzilla motors, Sold Out

[neptronix]

I wont go into details, but i ll be using thick steel clamped dropouts on my next cromotor builds for sure...

DP420 didn't work out so well huh?

[gensem]

I wont go into details, but i ll be using thick steel clamped dropouts on my next cromotor builds for sure...

DP420 didn't work out so well huh?

No, no... it works, its all glued together but the axle still moves inside the dropouts when Im riding (like a maniac) no matters how much torque I put on the nuts, this happens especially in the disk side. Im still using my regular FS frame coz I want to "practice".
Second step will be extended genesis (when it arrives) and the gran finale... wrap frame with real power and no mistakes.

[hillzofvalp]

I wont go into details, but i ll be using thick steel clamped dropouts on my next cromotor builds for sure...

stop scaring me. I'll let you know how my dp420ed dropouts go on my horizontal chromoly dropouts.... they have been okay so far with 2807 at 3.5kW...

My motor + 13-14 sapim spokes (ty JRH) + mtx rim is 25.4lbs. I might give it a shot tonight without lock washers... at 3.5kW

[neptronix]

Too loose then?
I think this bad boy is definitely a candidate for a custom swingarm with pinching dropouts.

[hillzofvalp]

I just discovered something miraculous... but with some bad news.

The good news is that you can use a park FR-6 to install a white industries freewheel, because so amazingly the ID of the tool is quite literally within .005-.01mm of the axle (~15.96mm). I was at first afraid it wouldn't fit, but it fits like a glove.

The bad news is that the white industries freewheel has a taper after the threads that will not let freewheel thread all the way down the boss. This would require facing off 6-7mm just to make the freewheel flush with the edge.. so probably like 9mm to clear the frame during rotation. Is this threaded portion easy to take off, Jeremy? I won't get too involved with this? (I work in a cnc lab). It looks like it just bolts on which could be extremely convenient.



With washer in place and freewheel fully threaded on:

[Alan B]

Old news. I posted this weeks ago for the last run of motors, apparently same on this run.

The WI freewheel is apparently soft on the inside, so it could be turned out to clear the threads. Would you rather cut a $600 motor or a $90 freewheel?

[hillzofvalp]

Yeah. I took a look at the steel modification to the covers.. and there is only about 5-6mm to work with.. not enough for the WI freewheel anyways (8-9mm ideal). It's amazing how little material is in some of these transitions to the threaded portion. Turning out that soft taper will necessitate removing around 80-90% of the slots used for removing the freewheel. This is about .030"-.045" of engagement. I suppose going straight through would be okay, as long as I rarely take the freewheel off or I press very hard with the tool when I remove it... Have you heard of people doing this before? there's only 2-3mm before you are forced to cut through the tool notches.
Even still with the freewheel bottomed out all the way, it's tight. might have to double up washers.

[Alan B]

Yes. Of course that freewheel is so well made that one might never need to take it apart.

[gensem]

Ok, i got and idea... and its made of stainless steel 12mm x 40mm x 100mm
I try to make it in this weekend...

[zombiess]

I don't know what brand freewheel I run but it fit's on without any issues like in the picture and cost me $15, the washer keeps it from being pinched by the dropout. Is the white industries freewheel is twice as thick as a normal freewheel? That picture looks really off to me. Is the washer keeping it from going down any further?

Why did you put the washer on first? The washer I supplied is used to prevent the dropout from pinching the freewheel and keeping it from moving. I'm no bike mechanic though and I've never seen a freewheel fit like that so I can't really offer much advise.

[hillzofvalp]

Its a high quality freewheel that is only 80% threaded through. I ended up machining it and got it to fit, but I think that would've been left with fewer problems if I had just faced the threaded boss down. The washer actually slid through without an issue, but I ended up repurposing that guy

In order to Mill the freewheel, I had to have a threaded boss to fixture it with, so I took off the steel boss off the motor cover and toe clamped it in the mill with no problems. It was when I took the assembly out to try to remove the freewheel that I miss judged just how minimalist this hunk of soft Steel was---- I warped it in the vice!

I didnt think it would make much of a problem other than a little freewheel wobble, but I may be wrong: the once perfectly true wheel is now wobbling. I'm hoping it's just an imperfection or scuff on the cover flats or motor that is not letting the cover seat correcetly. I'm not sure if maybe the bearing is pressed in at an angle.. I noticed that even on my 9c that the bearing bores are sometimes not tight fit... ----right after I got everything set up and pinched on my bike---ready to go!


Now that I think of it, the bearing may be resting on the steel boss part, so I am wondering if maybe the bent part has let the bearing settle at an angle? But that would be disastrous


SIDE ISSUE: are the phase codes true to colors in my lyen 18fet? I tried it.. Got it to spin.. But it stutters at low rpm and at full power it blips off like as if the ca was oscillating around a speed limit... Switches between 0-1A and 5A at full speed.


Update: as I disassemble I recall that the 8 bolts holding the steel boss on we're tight enough just to be flush with the surface... No clamping was happening from t he factory. This makes sense.. But I thought it was just another Chinese inadequacy at first. If the steel part is clamped to the cover, I think it deforms the cover (through tension). The bolts are just to keep t he steel ring in the mating pocket on the aluminum cover.

[zombiess]

hillzofvalp, are you saying you might have put it back together wrong or damaged something after pulling the cover off? I hope you didn't hurt the cover as I don't have any spares.

[neptronix]

When are you guys gonna get your bikes together and start posting some performance numbers/details?

[hillzofvalp]

No. Word of advice to everybody---only tighten 8 bolts enough to eliminate play. I loosened my over-tightened nuts and I am back to a true wheel.


Neptronix--- tomorrow!

[gensem]

When are you guys gonna get your bikes together and start posting some performance numbers/details?

I ll put it in simple way... image a 9c, now close your eye and think of something 2.5x stronger... thats close to it.
Regen makes it hotter, specially when you are playing with small motorcycles. I would have way more data if I started with a thick cromoly dropout and overbuilding everything. but I wont deny its fun but im sad i dont have much time now to play with my cycles...

[hillzofvalp]

Holy shit! Just at the same settings over a mere 200Wh I got the average I got with my 2807. I bet the 20A regenning makes up for its power.. It feels and sounds like a robot when I regen.. So powerful! (42.8Wh at 50A 66V 80A phase) noticeable improvement. It seems like the torque kicks in the most at at about 5-15mph. It doesn't seem to have much torque from stand still but that could be my settings. Such as block time not being high enough and phase current of course.

Tomorrow I will give it a more thorough test with more average riding conditions. Tonight I was stop and going a lot.

Holy shit I am going to be up late.. Trying 60A next with 110A phase current until I beef up my traces.

[Samd]

Well if you're gonna stay up late don't be afraid to update us

Some of us sitting at desks on the other side of the world rely on these kinds of things to keep us alive until we can return home to the workshop!

[neptronix]

That's a super low battery amp to phase ratio... that's why you are not blasting off

What are you running? a 12fet?

[gensem]

That's a super low battery amp to phase ratio... that's why you are not blasting off

What are you running? a 12fet?

50a main is already a blast with a 23" OD wheel, he is using a bad big wheel but that should still go off the line very fast.

[hillzofvalp]

Those were my settings for my elderly 9C... I am going to bump it up now with my 18FET. How far can I push it (with no beefed traces)?

Is it dangerous in anyway that I had to stretch the dropouts out maybe as much as 10mm to fit this motor? It's weird because I only put a 6mm washer on the freewheel side (with a heavy chamfer to clear the freewheel) and the wheel is centered! Also is it dangerous that when I. Tightened down the nuts, it sort if flexed my stays a litt,e bit so that the flats of the motor were Flush and parallel?


Handles much better with a 33mm rim!

[gensem]

Those were my settings for my elderly 9C... I am going to bump it up now with my 18FET. How far can I push it (with no beefed traces)?

depends on what ll blow faster.. in my 4110 controler I can run 80a main with 130a phase (I can run alot more pwm but its just not needed)with good cooling but it does get HOT.

[hillzofvalp]

Omfg it's too fast almost just at 4.3kW and120 phase amps... Controller barel warm.. Motor hardly warm just at 200Wh again.. My normally closed regen switch fell off my lever so I had to come in early cause it was regenning like nuts. Sounds sweet!




After reading about water Ingress from Justin, I wonder if I should i ahead and do cooling holes in the CNC mill.

Holy shit! Still getting ~43Wh/mile at this setting, horsing around... More tomorrow.

[zombiess]

Omfg it's too fast almost just at 4.3kW and120 phase amps... Controller barel warm.. Motor hardly warm just at 200Wh again.. My normally closed regen switch fell off my lever so I had to come in early cause it was regenning like nuts. Sounds sweet!




After reading about water Ingress from Justin, I wonder if I should i ahead and do cooling holes in the CNC mill.

Holy shit! Still getting ~43Wh/mile at this setting, horsing around... More tomorrow.

I've posted a comparison previously against one of my 9C motors showing that it's an efficient motor. Big doesn't mean it's a power hog as long as it's built with good quality stator laminations and magnets. It's nothing like a Xlyte 5303 efficiency wise which is what I think most people were expecting it to be like.

[hillzofvalp]

I got rained out today.. Haven't sealed my controller and hall wires. Rode to work this morning and pedaled back in the rain to protect my halls.

Holy crap! So awesome. One issue I'm having now it a weird oscillation at it certain time. Yes, it whines a little at low speed and cogs a little bit.. I figure that's normal. What pulsing I'm getting is either at a certain current or a certain speed.. I will look into it more.

[hillzofvalp]

I'm doing 40-45Wh/mile over 30 miles now with 4kW max battery power. Went 30mph down a steep grade and regenned 30A, but in general on flat ground I see 18-25A on 30-0mph stops. About twice the 2807 regen. s

Gensem, which block time do you choose to use?

When I set my controller to 99A and 120Aphase, then limited to 77Awith the CA, everything was smooth except for Between 20-30A when something began to oscillate. I tried setting the controller to 64A/150A, .4s block,and the thing oscillated like crazy---and the controller got much warmer! Then I set it back to 99A and limited with the cycle analyst to 77A again and it once again is lukewarm to the touch but witha little more oomph.

Zombie, I read your thread about current settings for controllers and found it fairly helpful, but I have not concluded which parameters are reasonable for my setup in the stock configuration. Would you give me some advice? When I am to the point that I want to take apart "my baby" again I will install thermistors on the FETs and limit current via the V3, but for now I'd like to make the most out of the stock Lyen 184110 controller. As of now, my phase leads from the controller are only the length of the chainstay... So 2-2.5feet. If it is more appropriate, you may reply in my build thread below.

Thanks, by the way, for delivering probably the best hub motor out there to me in a very reasonable amount of time!