Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

[Hyena]

Remember that 20m test is to accelerate 150kg total bike mass from a dead stop. You have to admit it is a quick and easy test, just load the bike up and lightly ghost pedal. Not too hard for a cop to do on the side of the road....

Yeah the silly thing is under the regulations apparently the bike has to stop powering under it's own steam by 6km/hr = 1.66m/second.
So assuming it accelerates to instantly to 6km/hr, if you then don't pedal at all it'll take 12 seconds to cover the 20 metres. ZOMG, street legal electric bike! That's if you even make 20 metres without crashing - the average person would be wobbling around all over the place with 50kg of ballast on board!!

[sn0wchyld]

Cool, my motor is compliant with the new rules! At 25km/hr in street mode on the flat it draws around 5 battery amps to maintain this speed, which is bang on 250w when allowing for motor efficiency. Obviously peak power is a little more than this when accelerating hard or going up hills but that's to be expected. In the same fashion, ford doesn't publish that my XR6T will consume over 60 l/100km of fuel ( 5 times the quoted fuel efficiency) when booting it up a hill or otherwise accelerating hard.

Time to attach some angel wings to the back of my body armour so everyone knows how good I am

come now jay, the fluffy pink fairy wings you wear right now are proof enough of you're 'good boy' status...

If they're actually uptight enough to enforce these silly laws, I'd move. I guess it's good that they have nothing better to do, but maybe the answer is less cops. The guys out west don't seem to have the same enforcement problem, so what gives. Hassling ebikers is just absurd, and I'm serious. I really would move. I moved to a new house a few months ago due to a mile of torn up road that I got tired of dealing with.

pretty much what I'm planning. there's other factors involved (such as loving the snow ), but this kind of bs nanny lawmaking pisses me off. same as a new law coming in to force (in SA atleast, not sure 'bout outher states) that means food outlets cant sell cups of soft drink larger than 500ml any more!! (its called a 'anti-supersize' law or something). I dont personally care either way about softdrink, as the days each month I might actually buy one can be counted on one finger, its the premise that the government needs to be there to hold our hand and tell us what we can and cant do to protect ourselves that riles me. There's another law on the cards atm to put taxes on unhealthy food. So just because a few fatties cant balance what they eat with their physical activity and some healthy foods I have to pay more when buying a iced coffee or a pie? ffs. sick of this nanny BS.

[whatever]

so now we await the first person in oz to be given a 20m test by the fuzz.

[Diamondback]

The way my luck runs, it would be me....

On just about the lowest power ebike that makes any kind of sense too.

Jason.

[full-throttle]

pretty much what I'm planning. there's other factors involved (such as loving the snow ), but this kind of bs nanny lawmaking pisses me off. same as a new law coming in to force (in SA atleast, not sure 'bout outher states) that means food outlets cant sell cups of soft drink larger than 500ml any more!! (its called a 'anti-supersize' law or something). I dont personally care either way about softdrink, as the days each month I might actually buy one can be counted on one finger, its the premise that the government needs to be there to hold our hand and tell us what we can and cant do to protect ourselves that riles me. There's another law on the cards atm to put taxes on unhealthy food. So just because a few fatties cant balance what they eat with their physical activity and some healthy foods I have to pay more when buying a iced coffee or a pie? ffs. sick of this nanny BS.

That rules NY out then
http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/bucket-blacklist-new-york-set-to-ban-supersized-soft-drinks-20120601-1zlhy.html

In his crusade for public health, the mayor of New York has taken on transfats, smoking, calorie-labelling and alcohol. Now Michael Bloomberg has revealed a new target, proposing a ban on the sale of large-sized high-calorie drinks in restaurants, cinemas and other public outlets.

[sn0wchyld]

pretty much what I'm planning. there's other factors involved (such as loving the snow ), but this kind of bs nanny lawmaking pisses me off. same as a new law coming in to force (in SA atleast, not sure 'bout outher states) that means food outlets cant sell cups of soft drink larger than 500ml any more!! (its called a 'anti-supersize' law or something). I dont personally care either way about softdrink, as the days each month I might actually buy one can be counted on one finger, its the premise that the government needs to be there to hold our hand and tell us what we can and cant do to protect ourselves that riles me. There's another law on the cards atm to put taxes on unhealthy food. So just because a few fatties cant balance what they eat with their physical activity and some healthy foods I have to pay more when buying a iced coffee or a pie? ffs. sick of this nanny BS.

That rules NY out then
http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/bucket-blacklist-new-york-set-to-ban-supersized-soft-drinks-20120601-1zlhy.html

In his crusade for public health, the mayor of New York has taken on transfats, smoking, calorie-labelling and alcohol. Now Michael Bloomberg has revealed a new target, proposing a ban on the sale of large-sized high-calorie drinks in restaurants, cinemas and other public outlets.

ha pretty much yea. the anti ebike laws are a turn off too. maybe i'm treading to fine a line but I'd be in support of banning asking people 'do you want to super-size that' or whatever... just not limiting the many for the sake of a few.

there's also a thread on ES now about how many people actually get pulled up by the cops... Its interesting to read how rare it is. I personally have ridden past cops on bikes, horseback, on foot and in cars and haven't drawn more than a passing glance, even on my less-than-subtle ebike. It'll be interesting to see if these new laws change cops attitude, or whether we're able to fly under the radar for a while longer yet. Here's hoping for the latter!

[Dreddydave]

So they´re dumb new rules but let´s look for the loopholes;

If you say any motor is ¨rated¨ for 250w continuous (because your 3Kw peak motor can handle that without overheating) that beats the first power test. If you combine that with a PAS and no throttle, it doesn´t go anywhere without pedalling. So the second test is useless because you have to pedal to get it moving.

So you could have a mega-huge-arse-power, pedal-assist ebike as long as the motor cuts out above 25km/h?

[adrian_sm]

The motor would have to be independently rated at 250w for you to claim it. Second test specifically talks about over-riding PAS low speed cutout, to enable the test when you can't test the motor independently. So it is still relevant. Plus you would still need the whole bike tested to meet all aspects of EN15194 to claim it fits this category.

Technically you might be able to do the haul-arse 25kph limitted bike the way I read it. But the testing body might decide on the day to apply the second Annex D measure at the wheel test, and you would be stuffed.

Remember this is all being introduced to allow the sale of bikes from OS that have already been approved to this standard.

[whatever]

i've been avoiding installing some x5's I have for fear of being pulled over...........not any more! I will though be printing out
the new regs and keeping a copy on me, the boys in blue may not know about this change. The are very familiar with the old law
I was pulled over and the cop had a huge folder just on ebikes in the back seat of their car.
After a 20min debate he left saying if I was pedalling they wouldn't have bothered about me.
keep the legs moving you'll be fine

[d8veh]

so now we await the first person in oz to be given a 20m test by the fuzz.

The 20m acceleration test is easily defeated by a soft start device in your throttle so that you don't get immediate full power. It makes a better ride too.

[Hyena]

Better for noobs and kids but soft start otherwise sucks. No good for offroad or if you're used to having a reasonable amount of power on tap.
The good news is I'm pretty sure with the V3 CA that sort of thing is selectable so you can disable the soggy performance if you want.
With a proper 250w motor though you don't need a soft start controller, a 36v controller @ 10 amps is all the soft start you need!

whatever, what's your location ? I've never spoken to a cop who knows that much about ebikes, let along carries a folder on them.
Sounds like they'll soon start carrying dossiers on key members of the ebike community.

"base, be advised I'm in pursuit of a suspected over 250w ebike. Rider is pedalling at 40km/hr but doesn't seem to be working too hard, I'm moving in for a closer look"
"roger that 26, proceed with caution"
"base, rider has a large rear hub motor and what appears to be a concealed 18 fet controller, I'm going to need backup!"
"roger that 26, 2 units have been despatched to assist you, follow the suspect but maintain a safe distance. If you spook him he could switch into offroad mode increase his speed to 50km/hr and significantly endanger the public"
"base, rider has just looked over his shoulder and spotted us. He's wearing a fighter pilot helmet and a skull face mask. Dear god, I think it's Hyena!"
"keep it together 26, remember your training. Wait for backup then pull him over and measure his 20m acceleration time"

[sn0wchyld]

Better for noobs and kids but soft start otherwise sucks. No good for offroad or if you're used to having a reasonable amount of power on tap.
The good news is I'm pretty sure with the V3 CA that sort of thing is selectable so you can disable the soggy performance if you want.
With a proper 250w motor though you don't need a soft start controller, a 36v controller @ 10 amps is all the soft start you need!

whatever, what's your location ? I've never spoken to a cop who knows that much about ebikes, let along carries a folder on them.
Sounds like they'll soon start carrying dossiers on key members of the ebike community.

"base, be advised I'm in pursuit of a suspected over 250w ebike. Rider is pedalling at 40km/hr but doesn't seem to be working too hard, I'm moving in for a closer look"
"roger that 26, proceed with caution"
"base, rider has a large rear hub motor and what appears to be a concealed 18 fet controller, I'm going to need backup!"
"roger that 26, 2 units have been despatched to assist you, follow the suspect but maintain a safe distance. If you spook him he could switch into offroad mode increase his speed to 50km/hr and significantly endanger the public"
"base, rider has just looked over his shoulder and spotted us. He's wearing a fighter pilot helmet and a skull face mask. Dear god, I think it's Hyena!"
"keep it together 26, remember your training. Wait for backup then pull him over and measure his 20m acceleration time"

that's the kinda chase i'd love to see on a ep of COPS. hehe.

[whatever]

cessnock nsw, i was damn surprised when he pulled the folder out from the back seat, my guess is they had recently attented a seminar or some such thing for cops to get up to speed on ebikes...........so to speak..........no guns were drawn during the pullover.

[heathyoung]

Hehe... Necknock cops would have been looking for drunk miners on ebikes I think (or people from the vineyards - hick )

[Hyena]

Ah yes, Cessnock, Australia's hub of street crime and an evil doer hot spot. A regular Mos Isley

[Samd]

So would it be hard to program a cycle analyst (or similar) that behaved 'illegally (pronounced 'fun') after punching an extra button, but behaved as required upon restart (eg when the cops pull you over?)

And perhaps there is a way to simulate the pedalec effect also on reboot?

So the cops could pull you over for perceiving you are doing the wrong thing, but couldn't recreate the power being alleged?

Then you argue any speed over 25kph was simply a result of your tree stump like legs...

[heathyoung]

Yeah the 3 speed exrazyman/lyen/infineons can be programmed to detect speed selection on power up, so get pulled up, turn off controller for 'safety' and its limited when turned on again.

Turn on and hold the switch hidden on the bike (Ebrake/reed switch/prox card?) and full power.

[t3sla]

'green' vs 'yellow' postie bike colour debate.......

I really should get an official statement stipulating what they deem he colour to be....

[d8veh]

So would it be hard to program a cycle analyst (or similar) that behaved 'illegally (pronounced 'fun') after punching an extra button, but behaved as required upon restart (eg when the cops pull you over?)

And perhaps there is a way to simulate the pedalec effect also on reboot?

So the cops could pull you over for perceiving you are doing the wrong thing, but couldn't recreate the power being alleged?

Then you argue any speed over 25kph was simply a result of your tree stump like legs...

I already mentioned in a previous post that Speedict already has this function, and it works by bluetooth from your phone. If you don't get a chance to hit the button before they stop you, you just tell them that you need to make a call to let someone know you'll be late. They'd have no idea that you're changing anything and deleting all logging records. The speedict is burried inside your bike near the controller and has no onboard display, so even if your bike went for independent inspection/testing and they could figure out what it was (highly unlikely), they wouldn't be able to prove anything other than that your bike behaved as a legal one.

[Hyena]

The new V3 CA also has alot of programmable features like this too.

'green' vs 'yellow' postie bike colour debate.......

I really should get an official statement stipulating what they deem he colour to be....

It's fluro either way!
But I reckon it's closer to yellow than green, given the grass the below pic is clearly what anyone would describe as green

Does your postie look like this ?

[Sunder]

I just bought a Cute Q100 to make my bike look a little more legal. (Currently have a 1kw Magic Pie eBay knock-off.)

But to make it even closer to legal, I was thinking of one of these:



http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/306-ebike-torque-sensor.html

Anyone used it before? Are they as bad as the hall effect based PAS? It says it has a minimum torque trigger setting, so I suspect that it wouldn't launch the bike forward just because you're adjusting the pedal position, which was my biggest bug bear with the PAS.

[shorza]

Hyena, is that your postie?
I'm jealous.

[d8veh]

I just bought a Cute Q100 to make my bike look a little more legal. (Currently have a 1kw Magic Pie eBay knock-off.)

But to make it even closer to legal, I was thinking of one of these:



http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/306-ebike-torque-sensor.html

Anyone used it before? Are they as bad as the hall effect based PAS? It says it has a minimum torque trigger setting, so I suspect that it wouldn't launch the bike forward just because you're adjusting the pedal position, which was my biggest bug bear with the PAS.

If you have the normal Cute kit from BMSbattery with the KU63 controller, it doesn't launch you forward when you adjust the pedals. The PAS only works when you pedal in the forward direction as long as you install the magnet disk the right way round (has to be flipped on the non-chainwheel side). The PAS works very nicely on these kits. I guess you know, but just in case: You can get a bit more power from the kit. I run mine at about 18amps, which is a simple mod. Just solder up one leg of the shunt, which sits behind the plain end-plate of the controller.

Ihaven't used one of those torque sensors before, but I'm interested to know how they perform - whether the power is proportional to torque, which is bad news because you have to pedal hard all the time, or whether it works like a switch to give a set amount of power as soon as it detects a minimum torque.

[t3sla]

EDIT:

HUZZAH!

It's considered 'green' I'm right

But yes it's a high vis fluro

[Hobbit]

From wikipedia....

Lime, also traditionally known as lime green or lime-green, is a color three-quarters of the way between yellow and green (closer to yellow than to green), so named because it is a representation of the color of the citrus fruit called limes. It is the color that is half way between the web color chartreuse and yellow on the color wheel.

HUZZINGG!!!