Interest in ZombieSS spec 24 and 36 fet controllers?

[zombiess]

I'm curious as to how many would be interested in some 24 and 36 fet controllers built to my specs. I've posted a detailed thread on my 36fet irfb4115 controller build and what I've done if you are curious.

This would be a very limited run of 5 each 24 and 36 fet controllers with your choice of fets. Each bank would be matched, different insulators used, buss bars on each bank, 8 gauge power and phase etc etc. This would be very limited because quite a bit of work goes into each controller and I'm not that into manufacturing myself.

I haven't managed to test my 36 fet 4115 controller over 120a on 125v but it hasn't even gotten above ambient yet. My 18fet with 4115s runs around 70c @ 105a on my Cromotor Hubzilla after a few mins of 0 to 55mph pulls. I don't really know how high my 36fet 4115 can go but I wouldn't hesitate to run 150a if the bike could be controlled.

I'm still working on my throttle controller to tame it, just been really busy but looks like I have time freeing up so i could do a brief run of these controllers. Let me I've been told I'd have to charge a premium for these and after looking at my build costs I understand why. Let me know what you guys think and what pricing they should go for. I could also offer these as kits with detailed build instructions if there is interest.

Jeremy

[Deutch420]

I would probably be interested. Would like to know a price, though. Can it be tuned, or 1 setting? Dimensions on the controllers?

[methods]

You have to at least post a target price to gauge interest....

For $100 each I think you will have them climbing down your chimney
For $600 each they are going to move as slow as molasses
What price point do you want to hit?

I am interested in at least 5pcs 24fet controllers for us... (at the right price) so that should get your production numbers up enough to lower prototype costs a bit.

Time line?

-methods

[Ryank]

I'd enjoy digging into a kit project.....

[neptronix]

I'm on the look out for a 4110 36FET. Prices?

[zombiess]

I'm on the look out for a 4110 36FET. Prices?

Lets put it this way. I'd be into a 36 fet controller for well over 200 in high quality parts alone bought in quantity. The controller would be xienchang based that everyone here is familiar with and my modified version of the software allowing a much wider range of settings. What do you guys thinker a 24 or 36 fet controller is worth. Takes quite a while to build them too, but I'd be building to a very high standard.

[neptronix]

The greentime 36FET controllers have been appealing lately, but i'd like to pay no more than $300 for a quality infineon controller with genuine 4110's. I am willing to do some of the work myself and buy something more basic to hit that price point.

BTW are these EB3 boards we're talking about or the older EB2?

[Arlo1]

You have to at least post a target price to gauge interest....

For $100 each I think you will have them climbing down your chimney
For $600 each they are going to move as slow as molasses
What price point do you want to hit?


-methods

The time it takes me to build one of these makes them worth more then 600 to me.
Good luck Zombies you have great drive. These china controllers are hell to make a profit from.

[methods]

There is a point of diminishing returns when modding out a controller like this. I envy both of you for the crazy work you do... but both of you guys cross far over that line from a production line prospective. What he is really asking is if he can make a business out of this. The answer I would give is no at $600. Maybe at $500. I think the magic number here is $420. There is a critical mass that must be met in order to do this...

So if the question is "How many people are interested in the most geeked to the max controller spare no expense" the answer will be... er... not many. You may be able to sell 20 or 40 but the reality is that you will kill yourself lining this deal up and making it happen. When it is done that tiny sliver of the market will be saturated and folks will again be hungry for a powerful - yet affordable - controller.

I think we have to firm things up a bit.
Look at what Lyen will give you for $300 bucks
Look at what Kelly will give you for $500 bucks
Then lets see what ZombieSS can give you for $420 (or whatever his magic number is)

At least that is what I am going to do....

Best approach is if different folks go at it different ways. Shotgun approach.

-methods

[ZOMGVTEK]

If you would like to actually have something sustainable, the 24 FET would probably need to be 500-600, possibly more for a really seriously modded one. The issue here, is not many people are going to be willing to pay that.

That said, my controller project was sidelined due to lack of time. I'd rather pay you to do it for me.

[zombiess]

Methods post is the reason I'm posting this. It's just a feeler to find out before I make a move I'd regret. I've been seeing several posts and getting a bunch of pm's about high powered controllers and where to get them. Seen a lot of people popping controllers because they keep pushing them instead of using something up to the task. Hard to get Corvette power on a Chevette budget. I've had really great performance with the way I've built my controllers and push them really hard while monitoring them to make sure they can take it. Everyone seems to have problems getting the 4115 based controllers to last under high current. Several people seem to want them but few get them to live at the power levels they want to run.

[methods]

My plan is to stay under 100V until a better mosfet comes out at an affordable price.

If we can push insane current - like 250A - and we can wind to higher KV there is no reason that we cant make staggering power on 100V and still reach the speeds you guys want to make.

In the RC world I was an early adopter of high voltage (6S or 8S was high back then when everyone was using 2S - 4S). Obviously power equals voltage x current and it always makes more sense to make power with voltage over current (less line loss blah blah) but it is not a straight line. It is a bell curve where returns start to diminish quickly.

Currently high voltage causes a lot of problems
Battery management and charging
Component size, cost, and performance

Dealing with high current is an old technology that we know how to do...
Hobby King Nano lets us actually realize this with tiny 10Ah packs

I cant believe I am arguing for this... but I think that for the next year or so keeping the voltage under 100V and pushing the current up is the ticket.

Once the market opens up - we can step into the 100V - 200V range and start bringing the high currents down to something we can manage.

-methods

[Arlo1]

Yeh Zombies I would not bother with 4115 fets. Essentially you need 2x the fets to get the same power as 4110s. If you made killer 24/36 fet boards with 4110s then you will be able to make 15-20 HP! With my 24 fet set to ~1/3 of the limit I have my x5 maxed at 6.5 wheel HP! A good 24 fet is incredible for a bicycle!

[zombiess]

4115s work great but you have to match them. There is more to an fet than simply the rdson value. 6 of them in parallel make for a pretty kick butt setup. Instead of using lots of amps use more volts, its been working great for me even though everyone has told me the 4115 fets suck yet I have two kick ass controllers made with them.

No sweat for me though, im going to continue to do what im doing since its pretty hard to argue the results im getting.

I do have a 2 turn cromotor hubzilla to play with for testing purposes. Ive been thinking of using my 36 fet 4115 controller and running at least 200a through it at 100v to see if it holds and im pretty sure it wont have any issues. I think 250a could be the upper limit but only monitoring and testing will tell me that.

Once im sure of my income stability my mega 36 to247 fet power stage will come back into the realm of play. I wonder how many people on here would like this beast 18kv motor.

[Arlo1]

But... If you applied all that to a controller with 4110 fets it would be so much better!

[neptronix]

But... If you applied all that to a controller with 4110 fets it would be so much better!

+1.. it would be a current dumping monster.

If you want to drive a really stinking large, hi-rpm per volt motor like say, my motenergy 4201, or something even bigger than that, then you need crazy amps.. on the spec sheets of the FETs, the rdson is about double for the 4115 controllers meaning that they can handle somewhere around half the current.

The more cells you have, the more balancing and charging is a pain in the ass. That's why i ditched my magic pie setup.

[zombiess]

Its all moot. Decided its not worth the effort. I might have some of my stuff up for sale in the near future if some are interested.

[methods]

At least you said moot and not mute

I believe that you can make a superior controller if you are willing to take the time to do fet matching and the like... but I just dont think you will ever get someone else to produce something like that for a reasonable cost. I cant even get manufacturers to do the simplest thing like run a JST-SM pigtail instead of a white recycled bottle biodegradable POS connector. Cant imagine them actually being trusted to bin parts. I guess you would have to bin them up and send them in "kits".

You already have the communication channel open - I think you should move forward with a slightly lower end controller. If you don't I will.... but the honest truth is that I would much rather let you do all the hard work (and take the lions share of the profit). Managing production on controllers is a perpetual disaster. I would rather spend my time tinkering in my chemistry lab.

-methods

[moonshine]

Zombie,

Would you be interested in doing controller upgrade work? I just got my 18fet 4115 controller back from lyen (repairs)... I was hoping he could "beef up" the controller to handle more current, but he's too busy...I mean, when i got it...he did some extra work on it, but apparently it wasn't enough. Since i have the cromotor and the 5404...i need a controller that'll be able to handle a decent amount of current...at least 70a+. Since your 18fet is ridic (saw the videos)...it's clear you're quite good with controller mods. whatya think?

[binlagin]

I did the TAB modifications last night with 16-14AWG ring terminals and some spare wire, in approx 4 hours.

I have yet to test extensively, but it didn't fail during my 30km ride today. I plan on throwing in some mineral oil to help with the heat... I'm hoping this will keep me from pop'n FETs in my 26inch rim @ 125v.

The oil will only help the heat reach the case easier... if I'm still having problems, I might turn it into an active cooling system.

I don't know if I can justify spending over 400$ for a 24-36fet. 18Fets is already rediculas for a bike.

[oatnet]

I don't know if I can justify spending over 400$ for a 24-36fet. 18Fets is already rediculas for a bike.

I've heard that kinda talk before, right before the next phase of the addiction sets in. I have to remember to quote this to you in 6 months, when you've finished a pioneering 48-fet liquid-cooled controller with integrated downtube clamps and decide you want just a little more...

-JD

[scriewy]

i was checking sources for irfB4110 irfP4468 fets, and stumbled upon 24 fet controller at www.aliexpress.com for a whooooping ! 92$ !! with "original chinese 24 4110 FETs"
and a 36 fet cont. for 121$

thats a tough competition lmao

i believe the chinese companies now occupying unborn fetuses workforce that pay fees to the company just to have a work place, thus we enjoy such remarkably low prices

who wants to get some ?!

[zombiess]

i was checking sources for irfB4110 irfP4468 fets, and stumbled upon 24 fet controller at http://www.aliexpress.com for a whooooping ! 92$ !! with "original chinese 24 4110 FETs"
and a 36 fet cont. for 121$

thats a tough competition lmao

i believe the chinese companies now occupying unborn fetuses workforce that pay fees to the company just to have a work place, thus we enjoy such remarkably low prices

who wants to get some ?!

It's usually garbage compared to building your own controller, matching the FET banks for the same miller plateau, using good insulators and then tying the tabs together with buss bars. The big advantage is it's cheap, but I'd question the FETs and capacitor quality since the Chinese loooooove to skimp as much as possible to make the most money.