Ping vs. Cellman

[cbr shadow]

I'm debating whether to buy a battery from Cellman (emmisions-free) or Ping.
Ping: 60v 15Ah = $697.00
Cellman: 52.8v 13.8Ah = $650.00
Cellman: 53.8v 16.1Ah = $750.00
Cellman 66v 11.5Ah = $675

These are just examples of what I'm looking at for reference and comparing ping to cellman prices. - I think any of these stats will probably work but I'm more interested in hearing which would be better (Ping vs Cellman) than comparing which exact battery to go with.

From the looks of it Ping is less expensive, but are they as good? The price difference is not gigantic. I've heard so many good things about cellman that I'm hesitant to not buy from him. Which would you go for? Assume Lipo isn't an option since I'm dead set on LifePo4.

[cbr shadow]

I forgot to mention that shipping is very similar for both.

[Ypedal]

all depends on what you want to use it with.

bike, motor, controller, your weight, etc..

more info required.

[cbr shadow]

I'm 210 lbs
KMX Tornado Trike
HS3540 laced in 20" wheel
Controller not purchased yet, but probably a crystalyte or Infineon 12FET 4110 (36-72v, 90v max)

This will be used for commuting only 10mi each way, but also just a fun toy for exploring all of the paths around my area, running short errands, etc..
I'd like for charging to be super simple so that if needed I can charge at my office.

[Ypedal]

The ping pack , at 15ah is ok with a 20 amp controller...

With a clyte H motor, 12fet controller ( you want to use at least 35 amps to do it right.. ) .. forget the ping purely based on the need for power.

Cellman is using A123 cells, they will easily cope with the 35+ amps you need.. make sure to get the proper BMS, cellman knows what you need for this to work right.

[dnmun]

+2

[SamTexas]

I'm debating whether to buy a battery from Cellman (emmisions-free) or Ping.
Ping: 60v 15Ah = $697.00
Cellman: 53.8v 16.1Ah = $750.00

Ping: 60 * 15 = 900Wh. 697/900 = $0.77/Wh
Cellman: 53.8 * 16.1 = 866Wh. 750/866 = $0.87/Wh
So Cellman's is 13% more expensive.

But as Ypedal mentioned Cellman uses A123 cells which is one of the best lifepo4 cell in existence that also has a real life discharge rate at least 3 times higher than Ping's. Easy decision in my view.

I don't know if you have a choice of BMS. But if you do, you should ask Cellman for a BMS that supports the highest discharge rate for the battery pack and NOT a discharge rate based on your controller's characteristic. That way, you could use the battery on any other bike when the need arises.

[cbr shadow]

Good information guys - thanks.
Cellman does offer a BMS capable of 80amp continuous discharge for a few extra bucks. Sounds like that's worth it. The standard BMS he uses is good for 40A continuous.

[dogman]

Gotta heave some amps at the HS motor to get it to perk up, so I would not recomend the ping.

HT motor and 20 amp controller, ping would be perfect for. But you will be running the HS.

The higher amp controller you want with the HS motor will murder a ping, so go for the cellman battery. Get the highest voltage higest capacity you can afford.

[cbr shadow]

I'm thinking 20S 6P from cellman (66V, 13.8Ah) = $800. I believe these are good for 40A continuous, but per the above advice I think I'll have Paul add the 80A continuous BMS in case I want to upgrade controller/motor later, or use on another bike. Do you think this 66V 13.8Ah will be enough power to feel decently fast? I'd like something VERY fast, but that's not going to be in my budget so I'll settle for "still fun". It looks like it will top out around 35mph which should be fast enough. Will it be pretty good accelleration?


Also thinking I'll get: Controller: 12FET (EB312) with IRFB4110 (36-72V, 90V max) – $96USD

This KMX Tornado that it's going on is a real blast even without a motor, so I'm sure with a motor it'll be awesome. I took it down a big hill and got up to around 30mph and it felt really solid and smooth.

[SamTexas]

I have never exceeded 40A. My max power so far was around 2,300W at 40mph on a mountain bike. So 80A is way more than sufficient for me. But we have members here that require 100A or more. Only you know how much you need.

Do you think this 66V 13.8Ah will be enough power to feel decently fast? I'd like something VERY fast, but that's not going to be in my budget so I'll settle for "still fun". It looks like it will top out around 35mph which should be fast enough.

I don't know about your controller or hub motor. But that battery can definitely support a much higher speed. You only need around 1,500W for 35mph. But your battery can provide (66-6)*80 = 4,800W (assuming 6V sag at 80A).

[dnmun]

i am hoping someone will buy one of those cheap sun-thing lifepo4 pouch packs on ebay. then open it up so we can see how it is built and even maybe test it on a big dummy load. the 48V20Ah pack for $500 delivered seems too good to be true.

[cbr shadow]

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.. I will be going with 40A on this setup, but the batter will be capable of 80A. Controller limited to 40A so I dont burn up the motor.
Will 40A, 66v 13.8Ah on my HS3540 be a nice zippy trike? I know it wont be lightening but I want it to still be fun.

[SamTexas]

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.. I will be going with 40A on this setup,

OK. (66-3)x40=2,520W. Expect a top speed around 40mph on flat ground, assuming of course that your motor can handle that power.

[cbr shadow]

according to the Ebikes.ca simulator the motor should never overheat even at continuous top speed with this setup. Hopefully that's correct.

Does anyone have experience with a similar setup?

[Spacey]

Yep I ran my Greyborg at 66v Lipo with the HS3540 motor and used to run it at 35A, speed was 37mph with good acceleration. You don't want to go much more power than this as this seems to be a sweet spot for heat.

I would definitely go with Cellman for the A123 batteries as the Ping will not be able to cope with the power your setup needs. Ping is the better out of the Lifepo4 batteries but Cellmans A123 batteries are the best out of them all and brilliantly built.

[cbr shadow]

Thanks Spacey for the response. Were you able to run 37mph continuous without overheating?

[deVries]

Cellman: 52.8v 13.8Ah = $650.00
Cellman: 53.8v 16.1Ah = $750.00
Cellman 66v 11.5Ah = $675

Did he give you the dimension shapes for these too? Does he have a price list beyond his website? Only 3 standard batteries are listed on his website.

What did he give for ETA to ship?

Thanks!

[cal3thousand]

Go with the Cellman batts


13% is not much of a premium when you consider the C rating of the batteries. Give's you some room to tinker with current.

[veloman]

I believe the 30amp BMS from Cellman will peak at 100amps or something, you may not need the 80amp...

[Jason27]

i am hoping someone will buy one of those cheap sun-thing lifepo4 pouch packs on ebay. then open it up so we can see how it is built and even maybe test it on a big dummy load. the 48V20Ah pack for $500 delivered seems too good to be true.

of course it's too good to be true. the packs are shipped illegally with no hazmat labeling or certification. big fines if you get caught by customs.

[maydaverave]

I am a happy cellman custpmer. I have a 50v 9.2 ah battery with a 10 amp charger. I can ride for 20 miles charge for 40 minutes and repeat endlessly if i want.

[dnmun]

i am hoping someone will buy one of those cheap sun-thing lifepo4 pouch packs on ebay. then open it up so we can see how it is built and even maybe test it on a big dummy load. the 48V20Ah pack for $500 delivered seems too good to be true.

of course it's too good to be true. the packs are shipped illegally with no hazmat labeling or certification. big fines if you get caught by customs.

i don't think lifepo4 requires a hazmat warning and the shipping was surface anyway. but this guy seems the best deal i have seen anyone drag here from ebay. he uses the 5Ah pouches that seem ubiquitous in china now. the guy who found them i think was convinced to go lipo anyway.

[ez-Ebike]

I was in your shoes before, and after careful consideration I went with Cellman. His service and product are so good, I went with him again. That battery pack will take you to the next level too IF you want something with a higher C. I don't think a 13% relative price discount offsets the fact that Ping isn't using a123s.