New York State Senate Bill S1357 (Definition of ebike)

[DrkAngel]

Every year ... this Bill is passed, nearly unanimously, by the Assembly.
In it's 6th year, it now is nearing consideration, by the Senate.
But, it has died in the Senate every time.
This year, on the first session day, it was "REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION", where it sat from Jan 4 - May15.
The Transportation Committee passed the Bill unanimously and placed it on the Senate calender, for the next days session.
Where it has sat ... ignored ... for the past 4 weeks.

I have been following this Bill closely, this year, even to the extent of watching the live video stream of the Senate sessions.
Sadly, the sessions seem to consist of prolonged, self aggrandizing speeches, to an empty room(?), followed by a very brief and barely intelligible chant of Bill considerations.

With 2 weeks of session remaining, I foresee no hope for this Bill.
The Senators seem to have little interest in making a contribution towards a greener or cleaner State.

Sadly ... New York State imports between 15 - 20 Billion dollars worth of "Oil" annually.
That is sucking ~$20,000,000,000 away from the NY economy ... every year!
That means, an additional, $4000 sucked away from each and every family (of 4)... every year.

You would think that the Senators might be concerned enough to take a step towards stemming this arterial bleed.
At the very least, in an election year, is it wise, to blatantly ignore a simple positive stride?

[DrkAngel]

Sadly ... New York State imports between 15 - 20 Billion dollars worth of "Oil" annually.
That is sucking ~$20,000,000,000 away from the NY economy ... every year!
That means, an additional, $4000 sucked away from each and every family (of 4)... every year.

You would think that the Senators might be concerned enough to take a step towards stemming this arterial bleed.
At the very least, in an election year, is it wise, to blatantly ignore a simple positive stride?

Oops!
My bad!

I based my figures on 4.6% of "imported" (non-USA) oil.
NYS has a negligible oil production.
Actual NYS oil imports would be 67% more. (includes USA production)
So -
Sadly ... New York State imports between 25 - 33.4 Billion dollars worth of "Oil" annually.
That is sucking ~$33,400,000,000 away from the NY economy ... every year!
That means, an additional, $6680 sucked away from each and every family (of 4)... every year.

$30 Billion leaving the State ... every year ... getting worse, constantly ... with no end in sight!

[DrkAngel]

New York State Barrels of "oil" used (annual) - 308,658,000 *
Crude oil (May 1, 2012) - $106/Barrel
New York State annual oil imports, at May 1, 2012 price = $32,717,748,000
Divided by 20,000,000 NYS population =
$1636 per person =
$6544 per family of 4 - sucked away from the New York State economy ... every year.

* "Oil" use - by State

PS It gets worse! Most of this "oil" is processed-refined "out of State", so cost is higher!

[DrkAngel]

Ebike Bill has been returned into the Rules Committee ... the same place it ended last year!

The Assembly passed this Bill and submitted it to the Senate during it's first session day.

The Senate spent 5 months ignoring it in the Transportation committee, another month of neglect on the Senate floor, then, finally recycled it to the Rules committee ...

Do these Senators hate the idea of electric vehicles?

.................................. ?...............................

[DrkAngel]

New York State Barrels of "oil" used (annual) - 308,658,000 *
Crude oil (May 1, 2012) - $106/Barrel
New York State annual oil imports, at May 1, 2012 price = $32,717,748,000
Divided by 20,000,000 NYS population =
$1636 per person =
$6544 per family of 4 - sucked away from the New York State economy ... every year.

* "Oil" use - by State

PS It gets worse! Most of this "oil" is processed-refined "out of State", so cost is higher!

A seemingly comprehensive listing shows New York State with 0 Petroleum refineries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oi ... ted_States
This means that NYS pays other States to refine it's oil as well as for a percentage of the Distribution Costs Marketing Costs & Profits.

$2.36 - Price of gasoline ("raw")
$0.73 - Refinery Costs & Profits +
$0.22 - Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs & Profits (~ 50% of $0.43 ) - reasonable approximation?
$3.31 - Gas per gallon - leaving the State

$3.31/$2.36 = 1.4 = an additional 40% in cost of imported "oil".

New York State Barrels of "oil" used (annual) - 308,658,000 *
Crude oil (May 1, 2012) - $106/Barrel + 40% = $148.40
New York State annual oil imports, at May 1, 2012 price = $32,717,748,000 + 40% = $45,804,847,200
Divided by 20,000,000 NYS population =
$1636 per person = + 40% = $2290.40
$6544 per family of 4 + 40% = $9161.60 - sucked away from the New York State economy ... every year.

* "Oil" use - by State

[lester12483]

Banning ebikes in NYC is a safety issue. I dont agree with it. Makes no sense.

The politicians are prolly ill informed and think ebikes are like gas mopeds, therefor they need regulations.

My state Illinois will allow ebikes, but bans handguns for protection.. IL is the only state that does not allow concealed carry.

[Lessss]

It's not a safety issue, it's a" nobody has bribed them yet" to pass legislation issue.

[Lock]

Ebike Bill has been returned into the Rules Committee ... the same place it ended last year!

I think I read somewhere that this is one last step before adoption, where any changes made by Senate are reviewed by this joint committee before being voted on for one last time in the House...

It's possible this is very good news (Senate no longer in the loop.)

Lock

[DrkAngel]

Ebike Bill has been returned into the Rules Committee ... the same place it ended last year!

I think I read somewhere that this is one last step before adoption, where any changes made by Senate are reviewed by this joint committee before being voted on for one last time in the House...

It's possible this is very good news (Senate no longer in the loop.)

Lock

The Senate session year ended yesterday!
New year January 2013.
http://www.nysenate.gov/calendar

5 1/2 month vacation ...
They need it! ... After their 62 session day work year!

Assembly gone too!
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/calendar/
62 session day work year.

[DrkAngel]

The NYS legislative sessions have expired ...
The eBike Bill has been left to rot ... again.

After watching several Senate Sessions, I feel despair at the possibility of them accomplishing ... anything!

[DrkAngel]

The Senate session year ended yesterday!
New year January 2013.
http://www.nysenate.gov/calendar

5 1/2 month vacation ...
They need it! ... After their 62 session day work year!

Assembly gone too!
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/calendar/
62 session day work year.

Maybe I should apologize ...
Perhaps I gave the impression that NYS Senators are horrifically overpaid, sadly underworked and generally unconcerned about energy conservation-cost.
While they might make thousands of dollars per session hour, and while there are only 62 work (session) days per year, they do have to work!

Now that the actual, supposed, "job" is over, their real work must begin!
20 weeks of 24-7 hardcore campaigning.
The stress and pressure of asking people to give them money.
Remembering and keeping straight all their campaign promises-lies!
Being schmoozed by corporations, unions, industries, with trips, meals, money, perks etc., in large part, just to make sure they don't screw them, by doing-changing ... anything!
You can't imagine how soul wrenching that can be ...

They need that 24 weeks of actual "job" ... to recover!

[DrkAngel]

Perhaps for the first time the eBike Bill is being considered in the New York State Assembly and Senate at the beginning of their "calendar".

This gives rise to a bit of hope for an eBike legality law.
For about 6 years, this Bill has been passed, almost unanimously by the Assembly, but then allowed to die in the Senate ... every year!

Unfortunately the Assembly version allows a 1000w motor while the Senate version limits the motor to 750w.
This is the type of petty conflict that is liable to make sure that it will never become a law.

Assembly

Senate

Both of these links allow comments.

[DrkAngel]

The New York State Senate has convened for another grueling work year ....56 session days of petty bickering.
Last years 62 day work year was too demanding?

Don't feel too bad for them.
Many session days last less than an hour.
Most seem to consist of grandiose self serving speeches ... to an empty room?
Towards June, this diminishes and is displaced by a mindless chant of Bill considerations.

I've listened to several sessions and been darkly amused at Senators "missing" the chant for the Bill they were waiting to comment on. As the session is closing you hear a shout of what about such and such Bill? Was it considered? Then a fumbling through papers and a repeat of the moaning chant. With the hapless Senator being allowed to "go on the record as opposing ..." the already passed Bill.

NYS Senate Videos of sessions

[sendler2112]

Is an Ebike in NY currently illegal or is it just a non-entity. Passing the bill would only serve to make every Ebike on Endless Sphere illegal as we all build for more than 20mph.

[geeeyejo1]

Is an Ebike in NY currently illegal or is it just a non-entity. Passing the bill would only serve to make every Ebike on Endless Sphere illegal as we all build for more than 20mph.

I believe all are illegal but viewed as a non-entity by most LE. The large increase in Asian delivery E-bikers has started to wake up LE in NYC - hell, I have seen officers pull over regular bikers for not stopping at a light! Common sense should prevail - if you are flying the wrong way on a one way street, blowing red lights/stop signs, traveling at excessive speed with no sign of pedaling - I am sure some LE may take notice and give you a problem. I plan on commuting in NYC when my build is complete - 1.5 miles in Staten Island and 3.5 miles in Manhattan - some areas I will be able to "open her up" whereas other parts of the commute I will need to be conservative and avoid detection. The good news is my build is rather stealth and looks nothing like the standard Asian delivery Ebike with it's vertical silver battery case...

[DrkAngel]

Is an Ebike in NY currently illegal or is it just a non-entity. Passing the bill would only serve to make every Ebike on Endless Sphere illegal as we all build for more than 20mph.

Queens, for example, has passed a local ordinance limiting eBikes to 15mph, seemingly, enforcing their legality otherwise.
Other than that, I have not heard of any New Yorkers being prosecuted specifically for riding an ebike, meeting federal guidelines.

Ebikes, if technically illegal, seem not to be enforced against.

I have heard of eBikers being prosecuted for accidents, wrong way on one way streets, sidewalking, speeding, reckless endangerment etc.
On the other hand, "responsible" eBiking seems to be readily accepted.
Obey traffic laws, don't flaunt your motor only capability, retain the appearance of constant pedal assist ... and you'll very likely never have any problems.

The eBike Bill, having been passed by the Assembly, for the past 6? years, seems to have placed eBikes in something of a legal "limbo".

A potential "crime", in the process of being legalized drops the infraction into a grey area of the law.
Legalization "in progress" creates a legal muckmire that most courts don't care to get bogged down in.

Perhaps the New York State present standoff is the ideal state of "legality" for eBikers?

[Ykick]

Perhaps the New York State present standoff is the ideal state of "legality" for eBikers?

I can report it's probably something along those lines. Just don't be an ass (we have assist you know) and most traffic cops (enforcers) actually seem to like one less car and a bike that can get out of it's own way going through busy intersections and/or up hills, etc.

Let a sleeping dog lay, so they say!

[DrkAngel]

I just re-read the "Purpose" of the Bill.

PURPOSE:
This bill clarifies the vehicle and traffic law to define electric
assisted bicycles; establishes that electric assisted bicycles, as
defined, are bicycles; and establishes safety and operational
criteria for their use.

The phrasing "clarifies the vehicle and traffic law ... "
Clarify heavily implies that eBikes are, already, legally considered as bicycles, but, as yet, the NYS written law is not specific enough in pointing that out! ... ?

[DrkAngel]

NYS eBike Bill - History
A= Assembly version
S= Senate version


2007-08
A00189 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle
S06898 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle


2009-10
A02393 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle
S04014 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle


2011-12
A01350 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle
S01357 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

2013-14
A01618 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle
S00390 Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

[50yearoldebiker]

I live & ride Nassau County South Shore Long Island NY & have logged 5100 miles the last 13 months since getting into E-Biking, I have met Police cars @ 4 way Stop sign intersections & have had them tail me, so far have never been pulled over. when I'm riding on sidewalks for short distances it's always very slowly, I try to make it look like a regular bike as often as possible on busier roads too, common sense as others have mentioned., I figured I'd add my 2 cents & offer this report, carry on

[TSAR]

Solution - put a "500w" sticker on my 5304 and keep pretending to pedal.
When New York politicians are on the case, them doing nothing is usually the best thing to do.

[Nancy]

Thank you, Lock, for starting this thread. I went on the page and wrote, "I feel it's important for all those deliberating on electrical-assist bicycle laws keep in mind that a large percentage of the users of these types of bicycles are senior citizens who would otherwise have great difficulty, or even be unable, to engage in the healthful exercise that is to be had by cycling on a regular basis." I took this strategy because it's a certainty that one thing any career politician is aware of is that senior citizens are a group of citizens that dependably get out and vote in a greater percentage than any other sector of the voting population. As a result, if there's one thing a career politician is terrified of doing, it's coming down on the side of any issue that will result in senior citizens getting ticked of at him/her. If the writing of e-bike legislation becomes regarded as a "seniors are for leniency in e-bike regulation" issue, it's a damn safe bet any e-bike regulations that get passed will be lenient ones!

[arkmundi]

Thank you, Lock, for starting this thread. I went on the page and wrote, "I feel it's important for all those deliberating on electrical-assist bicycle laws keep in mind that a large percentage of the users of these types of bicycles are senior citizens who would otherwise have great difficulty, or even be unable, to engage in the healthful exercise that is to be had by cycling on a regular basis." I took this strategy because it's a certainty that one thing any career politician is aware of is that senior citizens are a group of citizens that dependably get out and vote in a greater percentage than any other sector of the voting population. As a result, if there's one thing a career politician is terrified of doing, it's coming down on the side of any issue that will result in senior citizens getting ticked of at him/her. If the writing of e-bike legislation becomes regarded as a "seniors are for leniency in e-bike regulation" issue, it's a damn safe bet any e-bike regulations that get passed will be lenient ones!

Hey, thanks for the posts & clarifications. Indeed, I'm a senior with an "electric assist" on my bike, that I now use exclusively for all my local transportation. The assist is for bringing a load of groceries up the hill where I live and my build works great for that! I have yet to be stopped by police for not having a drivers license or for not registering my "motor vehicle." FYI, I didn't renew my driver's license when it came up because I'm no longer driving, in my opinion. Everyone in Massachusetts who I've talked with or corresponded with that has an electric hub motor on their bike feels the law here clearly defines these as "motor vehicles," so I'm presumably breaking the law. Doing so with intent is civil disobedience and I plan on challenging the law if I'm ever in that situation. This thread gives me courage. Best.

[Nancy]

Hey, thanks for the posts & clarifications. Indeed, I'm a senior with an "electric assist" on my bike, that I now use exclusively for all my local transportation. The assist is for bringing a load of groceries up the hill where I live and my build works great for that! I have yet to be stopped by police for not having a drivers license or for not registering my "motor vehicle." FYI, I didn't renew my driver's license when it came up because I'm no longer driving, in my opinion. Everyone in Massachusetts who I've talked with or corresponded with that has an electric hub motor on their bike feels the law here clearly defines these as "motor vehicles," so I'm presumably breaking the law. Doing so with intent is civil disobedience and I plan on challenging the law if I'm ever in that situation. This thread gives me courage. Best.

Good for you, arkmundi, for getting out there and asserting yourself as an example in a way that will make others aware of what a just and sane attitude towards the use of e-bikes is all about. By making your voice heard (as well as those of family, friends and neighbors) by your local representatives, you will be well on your way to no longer having to worry about a beneficial activity you and others engage in being viewed as in violation of some badly written and misguided laws. It won't have to be that way as long as all of us make the effort take the responsibility, and make the effort required, to see to it that those we vote in as our representatives know for certain where we responsible and voting citizens (of ALL ages) stand on the issues.

To everyone: remember -- if you don't speak up, you won't be heard.

[geeeyejo1]

Although not a senior citizen, at 51- I certainly am not a kid anymore. If challenged by LE; I have mulled over the idea of claiming that I am disabled and need the electric assist to allow me to ride. the thought being that this will elicit pity by LE or fear of discriminating against the disabled. If they catch me picking up my 75 lb bike however and carrying it up the two huge flights of stairs to the train station, this may not work...