A BUSETTII 86 MILE RANGE

[amberwolf]

See this post:
viewtopic.php?p=545676#p545676
regarding at least one reason why you are probably seeing less heat. Keep in mind my numbers are all guesstimates based on the little data from your first post.

[rojitor]

I recall a member talking about those bikes ... Everything was broken in 6 months and he was redirected to the chinese company.. And they said warrant? What is that?

[dogman]

My range on 760wh is about 39 miles at 15 mph. But that is on real world road, some wind, some stops, etc. No hard pedaling, no aero tucks, panniers.

But bear in mind, a fitter cyclist pedaling an ebike at 15 mph might be using as little as 50 watts of motor power. So a theoretical 15 miles per 100wh even if using 100w.

In my mind, another example of how far a guy can muscle power an ebike really.

I'm not knocking the bike, just knocking test conditions that aren't very real world. I've never done a range test that didn't involve up and down at least 500' of vertical. And how many of us buy an ebike because we really crave riding around at 15 mph?

Come on, test the bike at 20 mph, on a course that climbs a few hills, and rides in all 4 directions to even out any effects from wind, and includes at least a few stop signs. Bet it comes out a lot closer to what all ebikes get. I'm not saying riding in the proper gear is not more efficeint than a hubmotor that isn't. Just saying that good gears don't magically get you a waiver on the laws of physics.

I'm sure it beats most hubmotors. I will give you that. But not by double. To test an ebike, you have to at least minimize the effect the rider has on range. The best way to do that, is to test at or above 20 mph, where rider input has less a percentage of total watts.

[grindz145]

Normal Li--ion batteries have a 50% safety shut off setting so you are not
allowed to use the other half of the stored charge. This is to avoid damage to
the battery caused by heat and low voltage. BYI soft pack strip cell
technology solves this problem by not having any metal structure inside the
battery which allows BYI to use 95% of all power in the battery every time.

Huh? Not true.

[Ykick]

Normal Li--ion batteries have a 50% safety shut off setting so you are not
allowed to use the other half of the stored charge. This is to avoid damage to
the battery caused by heat and low voltage. BYI soft pack strip cell
technology solves this problem by not having any metal structure inside the
battery which allows BYI to use 95% of all power in the battery every time.

Huh? Not true.

But it's from a PhD battery engineer...

[Paul_G]

This is the 86 mile range model with two battery's ....not the Big 50

http://www.busettii.com/vortex-mountain ... m6086.html

[dogman]

Yeah, I understood that the bike had 20 ah, or about 750wh of battery.

I just think it's pointless to make a range test at speeds where the riders input can skew the results spectacularly. A fit rider could easily do 40 miles using 0 wh for the first part of the test. That would take about 200w of rider effort. Easy for a racer to do for hours.

Do the math. 87 miles divided by 15 mph nonstop. 5.7333 hours of riding. Whoo hooo! My bike goes a long way too when run at 130 watts. Big deal, anybodies ebike goes a long way when used at 130w.

A much more realistic number is how far the bike would go at 300w, which may get you into the 20 mph ballpark. Gee wow, you get about 50 miles. If the motor really does make that much less heat, that's getting believable. Believable if the rider still pedals pretty hard, and has no wind, no hills, no stops, and tucks pretty aero. Put on regular clothes and panniers, and this bike will still get about what I get out of 750 wh. 20-35 miles depending on speed.

[Spacey]

Wow, check out all the bad reviews after the article. Pisses me off when businesses do that to customers.

http://electricbikereport.com/electric-bike-review-busettii-big-50-part-2/#more-2075

For the record and I mean real world....we get 26 to 30 miles engine only next to zero peddling on the A123 36v 11.5Ah Cellman packs with 250W motor.

This is with very hilly UK countryside roads with some quite strong winds.

[LA Bike Fanatic]

Very surprised to see so many people not taking the time to read all of the info at busettii.com and biyadii.com about the Vortex and the Big 50 by Busettii.
Every question raised on these pages is explained on one of the above sites that have been up for over a year now.
YES, Vortex does come with 2 batteries and YES, the 86 miles per charge includes both batteries used together as one. And Yes that 86 miles is for pedal assist mode MEDIUM power level with just steady moderate pedaling from the rider. The steady cruising speed is 15 mph which is pretty standard for testing e-bikes.
With no pedaling at all My Vortex will go 60 miles on one charge if you cruise at a steady 15 mph (2 x 38v 10ah on board =20 ah which is how it comes). Most companies are going by the standard of using a very flat loop course with very little wind 170 lbs. rider and properly inflated tires and adjusted brakes etc. Low roll resistance street tires. The Vortex has an actual built in 3 speed automatic transmission at the pedals and also on the rear wheel there is an internal NEXUS 3 speed shifter that the rider can shift at the handle bars. Therefore its a double internal shifter system with a total of 9 internal gears that all run directly off of the motor and chain drive. It is so rare to have things like a 3 speed auto transmission or even a Nexus internal hub on the back for an e-bike that I think its throwing people for loop here. It says clearly on Busettii 's page that its a 500 watt motor that can produce the torque of 1000 watt hub motor because of the extra torque generated by the built in trasmission.
However at 15 mph steady cruising speed the only question is how many amps does it need to hold the bike at a steady 15 mph (thats the only question that matters for any range testing). On the Vortex the answer is 5 amps at 38 volts. MOst E-bikes without a real transmission (i.e. hub motors) will be using about 9--10 amps to hold that steady cruising speed of about 15 mph. If you are using a steady 5 amps the Bike will cruise for 4 hours at 15 mph and reach about 60 miles on one charge with no pedaling at all. In pedal assist mode the rider is taking much of the stress and load off of the battery and the VORTEX can cruise at 15 mph in PAS mode medium using about 3 amps constant at 38 volts. AGAIN, the Vortex carries 20 ah at 38 volts. Since it can hold 15 mph in PAS medium using just 3 amps (which means rider is putting out 2 amps) The Vortex will cruise for about 5 hours and 40 minutes under these conditions which is exactly 86 miles.
The only amazing thing about all of this is the fact that the controller, motor and battery produces very little heat which is exactly what you need for high efficiency on an e-bike. I have tried out over 20 different E-bikes and I always carry my didgital thermometer ! Most e-bikes run very HOT ! Hot controller, Hott battery and even Hot motors. I usually get a reading of over 140 F off of all 3 components after riding just 20 minutes for most brands. My Busettii Vortex (I own 7 diff. E-bikes) got a reading of 92 F motor, 90 F degrees on the Battery and 93 F on the controller. The coolest readings I ever got from any e-bikes ( on this day the air was at 90 F).
I rarely see people on this site that even know the basics about E-bikes. The main thing that matters is how cool they can run and not waste energy thru heat. Also, some Lith. ion batteries from CHINA are so cheap that the safety shut -off is set to 50% or 40% to protect the cheap battery from burning out. Of course big Name brand batteries have a 20--30% safety shut off like A123, Sony, Samsung But when was the last time you saw those offered on an E-bike ???? try never. Having any kind of known brand name on an E-bike is already way better than those no brand no info batteries that come on 95% of all e-bikes on the market today. Thanks, LA E Bike Fanatic

[ambroseliao]

This is an old and tired claim from Busettii. The quality of their bikes is abysmal as attested to by a bike store owner who owned 12 of their bikes and every one of them failed dismally. See here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29822&hilit=busettii#p435685

Hey guys. I recently started a bike rental company in San Diego. http://bikefleets.com/. I attempted to create an electric bike fleet using Busettii. Busetti offered me a 3 year warranty and wholesaled me 12 bikes. It's been less than a year and my whole fleet has failed.

1. The rear wheels will fall apart. They come with wrong sized spokes and wrong lace pattern. The rims and spokes are Garbage as well.
2. The axles might spin in the dropouts. When the axles spin they will rip out the harness and split the aluminum dropouts. These bikes don't have proper torque arms.
3. The hub motors will fail. The spragg clutches will start clattering away within a few months.
4. Motor controls and battery chargers will randomly quit.
5. The batteries will go 50-350 cycles.
6. The battery is not a true 48 volt. The batteries were shorted a cell. The Chinese used 13 cells rather than 14. And the battery manufacture (SYL) closed their doors and changed their name.
6. The alloys of the components such as brake levers, brake calipers, stems, handlebars, racks and forks are the worst of the worst. I had a brake lever snap off in my hand and I also had a customer shear a stem. It snapped right at the neck.
7. The Bottom bracket bearings are misaligned.
8. The head sets are missing ball bearings.( A few of the ball bearing rings were even installed upside down)
9. Every bolt was cross threaded. Including the bolts for the motor control boxes, the racks, and clamps.


I replaced and reinforced every failed component until the motor and the batteries started to go, then I gave up. Busetti didn't warranty a single item.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeBZT0f2_w

Also, folks with only 3 posts are very suspect of being trolls for the company. Lastly, your claiming that few folks here know the basics about ebikes is about as ludicrous as your claims that your bikes go 86 miles per charge!

[BATTERY BIKE RIDER]

86 mile range on the Vortex ? First of all I purchased my Vortex through the Busettii East Coast Group. I put <link removed> into my address bar and their East Coast Division came up. The person I talked to was very clear to tell me how the battery operates. How many times to cycle the battery before you get the maximum results....etc.
As to the 86 mile range.....we all know there are standards for "test conditions" , however, if you have a battery that can charge while riding even slightly downhill in a neutral position......HOW FAR CAN IT GO?? I will tell you this. I am disabled and have a ride I make that is mostly gradual downhill with a couple of short high level grades where I need full power to complete the loop.. I RODE THE BIKE THROUGH THIS LOOP FOR OVER 100 MILES BEFORE DECIDING TO CHANGE MY ROUTE IN ORDER TO RUN THE BATTERY COMPLETELY OUT OF POWER.......
I then simply plugged into my second battery in the lock box built for the battery. SO TO ARGUE OVER "TOTAL MILEAGE" IS BASICALLY IMPOSSIBLE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LEGAL CONDITIONS NEEDED TO MAKE THE CLAIM !!!
What I DO KNOW FOR SURE is that I have NEVER seen or ridden any other electric bike that is even close to my Vortex. I weigh 275 and I needed a bike that could drag my fat butt from one place to another and THE ONLY ONE THAT COULD WAS BUSETTII.
So if you need a bike that you are certain will get you to your destination AND BACK....get a VORTEX WITH THE EXTRA BATTERY!
I cannot remember the East Coast web address, but you may still be able to put in <link removed> into your address bar and it may still take you there. I will check it myself.

[amberwolf]

Yummy. More probable spam. Could be real, but sounds spammy, especially with the double placement of the link in there, and the "100-mile" range and whatnot.

[ambroseliao]

Another first post glowing verification of not 86, but 100 miles now! It must be true then... NOT!

[Ypedal]

I"ve gone ahead and banned mr " BATTERY BIKE RIDER " .. that is sheer and utter bullcrap..

[ambroseliao]

Thanks Y, however, I bet he'll be back with another name shortly. He's a habitual reoffender...

[Ykick]

Just another in the adventures of shill marketing. Too bad these companies can't market their crap on quality and service...

[BATTERY BIKE RIDER]

. WE SHOWED THAT DISABLED VET. WE KICKED HIM OUT OF OUR LITTLE CLUB FULL OF A BUNCH OF REALLY COOL "RIDERS" WHO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT......WELL....EVERYTHING. AND IF SOMEONE CLAIMS SOMETHING WE DISAGREE WITH....WE CAN "KICK HIM OUT OF OUR LITTLE CLUB"......THAT WILL SHOW HIM!!! THERE IS NO WAY THAT A BIKE WILL GO 86 MILES ON A CHARGE, BECAUSE....UHHHHHH...WE SAY SO!! SO THERE!!
HOW ABOUT THIS...ANY OF YOU LITTLE PINHEADS WANT TO BET IT CAN BE DONE??? YOU ARE TO IGNORANT TO READ EXACTLY WHAT i WROTE OR YOU WOULD KNOW THAT MY "CLAIM" COULD EASILY BE DONE BY ANY BIKE MADE. INSTEAD OF CALMLY DISCUSSING THE DETAILS, YOU POST YOUR LITTLE "BLOGS" ACCUSING PEOPLE OF LYING. HABITUAL OFFENDER?? THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I HAVE EVER POSTED ON THE INTERNET. FACE IT. YOUR A BUNCH OF LITTLE NERDS WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN POST A BUNCH OF CRAP YOU BELIEVE TO BE TRUE AND HIGH FIVE EACH OTHER WITH YOUR B S......."Busettii used 2 battery's for the test".....right BIFF...yes BUNKY that's right......WELL YOU'RE WRONG BIFF AND BUNKY!!! JUST AS ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT MOST OF WHAT YOU POST AS "FACT".....YOU BUNCH OF LITTLE NERDS.....HAVE FUN NOW PROVING HOW COOL AND SMART YOU ARE WITH YOUR LITTLE WEBSITE.....OH, I ALMOST FORGOT....HOW TOUGH YOU ARE WHILE YOU'RE AT IT.....

[neptronix]

*pets the ban hamster and offers him a treat if he does that trick that we all love!*

[Punx0r]

Maybe he's using one of Randy's incredible altermotors?

[dogman]

Yet more examples of how the rules got written.

Cut all range claims by marketers in half.

Cut all c rate claims for batteries in half.

I never said the bike never rode 86 miles in a test. Just that it would go less miles if you come and ride it at practical commuting speeds of 20-25 mph on the same real world test course I have used to review ebike motors. Likely it would do better than my commuter, because it would not have panniers dragging the air, and a 55 year old geezer pedaling less than 50w.

I believe that by the time you are going as slow as 15 mph, and never stop, the riders input is affecting the test results too much to have reliable science. If you did a 15 mph no pedaling test, then at least you would have a repeatable result testing ONE variable. It's called science.

Alternatively, you could post a set speed, no pedaling, no wind, no hills, and then tell us how many wh/mi you are drawing. To get no hills, you'd of course run a test on a flat looking road in both directions. Then we could compare your busettis wh/mi at that speed with other bikes wh/mi at the same speed.

I don't doubt that you get very good wh/mi. We'd just like you to tell us what the wh/mi is without a persons imput of more watts introducing a second variable into the experiment.

[d8veh]

If Busettii really want to sell their bikes because of their huge range, why don't they loan one of us to test it for a day, and then we have a definitive result. I normally travel at about 15mph, and I'm happy to ride round on low powered bikes, of which I own a few. I'd give an honest opinion. There must also be a lot of other members like me, so come on Busettii or any agents: Put your money where your mouth is!

[Ykick]

Hey, if we don't look out for eBike consumers who will? This lying loudmouth, name calling, SOB? You should also be ashamed of yourself playing the veteran card.

Face it, your bikes suck and the only way to sell 'em is to trick people with shill reviews and hocus pocus engineering!

[Ypedal]

ALSO, WRITING IN UPPER CASE MEANS YOU ARE SHOUTING ON INTERNET FORUMS...... WE ARE NERDS. NOT DEAF.

[neptronix]

^-- great marketing job! Gonna definitely move a few hundred units from these forums this week!

[Miles]

http://www.biyadii.com/

The only thing that matters in the Vortex Motor is that form follows function.