Purchasing from ShenZhen Victpower Technology

[tkollen]

About a month ago I ordered a 48V 20AH A123 Battery pack + BMS + Charger after been informed that shipping time would be 5-7 days from order by UPS. Almost a month later and several reminders the items have still not been shipped. Each time I make an inquiry I get a new excuse like "Dragonboat festival", "the charger has to be customized" etc. I have started a dispute through PayPal since I don't expect to ever get the items I paid for.

I am therefore interested in finding another and reliable supplier of a 48V 20AH Battery pack ( with A123 AMP20M1HD-A cells) + charger. Can anyone help by pointing me in the right direction.

Thanks,

[deVries]

About a month ago I ordered a 48V 20AH A123 Battery pack + BMS + Charger after been informed that shipping time would be 5-7 days from order by UPS. Almost a month later and several reminders the items have still not been shipped. Each time I make an inquiry I get a new excuse like "Dragonboat festival", "the charger has to be customized" etc. I have started a dispute through PayPal since I don't expect to ever get the items I paid for.

I am therefore interested in finding another and reliable supplier of a 48V 20AH Battery pack ( with A123 AMP20M1HD-A cells) + charger. Can anyone help by pointing me in the right direction.

Thanks,

You might consider one alternative... the charger is something that could be delayed. Check if they might send battery/bms now or within a promised deadline with the agreement they will refund everything if they don't ship by x-date. Seems it would be in their interest to ship you the battery/bms now, and refund the charger difference & its shipping weight??? Plus, you'll get some more email evidence to provide to PayPal should they delay again.

[docnjoj]

I hate to say it but Grin Technologies and EPBuddy don't seem to have these problems. Yes they are a bit more money but they do fix problems easily and shipping is 3-5 days. I last gambled on the A123 cells and won this time but I certainly won't count on that all the time from China. It appears like a crap shoot except for Ping and Cellman!
otherDoc

[deVries]

I hate to say it but Grin Technologies and EPBuddy don't seem to have these problems. Yes they are a bit more money but they do fix problems easily and shipping is 3-5 days. I last gambled on the A123 cells and won this time but I certainly won't count on that all the time from China. It appears like a crap shoot except for Ping and Cellman!
otherDoc

There is a high likelihood of delays ordering from any supplier in China. My "in stock" order from BMS for $700 still hasn't shipped in almost a month now. Probably only cellman will give you an accurate estimate on ship dates. Search cellman since he does build these batteries. For 16s it was either $720 or $740 plus shipping... shipping is expensive.

I'm just about certain Grin or EPBuddy don't even sell A123 20Ah batteries.

[docnjoj]

No they don't. But I just made the point that there are "known good" suppliers out there. I got a price from Cellman for a 36V 20 aH A123 battery and it was not that much more than the one I am putting together from parts. This is not a cheap hobby, for sure.

[flexy]

I hate to say it but Grin Technologies and EPBuddy don't seem to have these problems. Yes they are a bit more money but they do fix problems easily and shipping is 3-5 days. I last gambled on the A123 cells and won this time but I certainly won't count on that all the time from China. It appears like a crap shoot except for Ping and Cellman!
otherDoc

Neither of those sell A123 pouch cells, if they did, we would have used them

[tkollen]

Thanks guys for your suggestions. Today and the day after filing my PayPal dispute Victpower informs me that my merchandise is ready to ship so I cancelled the dispute and hope everything is OK. In the meantime I made some inquiries with some of the vendors you suggested. Ping Batteries tells me that they don't use A123 20AH flat cells since all such cells on the market are B-grade. Can this be true? It seems that Victpower is the only supplier on the market with battery packs based on this kind of cells.

[flexy]

OSNpower were also making packs with them. I think the problem is availability. Victpower has already had their paypal account frozen once probably due to the disputes over the larger 28s and 7s ex vehicle packs they were selling.
I have had great difficulty in just transfer money to their account, I'm sure everything is correct this time but they are still saying it hasn't arrived.
Has anyone recently received any bare 20ah pouch cells from Victpower, which arrived within 14 days of ordering?

[999zip999]

Picture please for the this battery thread.

[docnjoj]

OSNpower were also making packs with them. I think the problem is availability. Victpower has already had their paypal account frozen once probably due to the disputes over the larger 28s and 7s ex vehicle packs they were selling.
I have had great difficulty in just transfer money to their account, I'm sure everything is correct this time but they are still saying it hasn't arrived.
Has anyone recently received any bare 20ah pouch cells from Victpower, which arrived within 14 days of ordering?

I ordered mine on 4/19 and got them about a week later. Not exactly recent but fairly recent.
otherDoc

[EVPowers]

I have had great difficulty in just transfer money to their account, I'm sure everything is correct this time but they are still saying it hasn't arrived.

Can you elaborate more on this?

Are you using wire transfer or Payal?
Are they saying there was a spelling error or anything like that?
Any sort for timeline of events would help clarify.

[flexy]

The first two times I tried making international payments from two different UK banks via the internet on 30th May, this apparently didn't work because there isn't enough room on the web form to input Victpower's full account name (apparently Chinese banks will not accept any abreviation or shortening of the name).

These payments has bounced back but I had to pay the charges.

So I went to see my bank in person and they arranged the payment with their own system and I made sure all the details were correct as Xin had specified, this was supposed to take 8 days to transfer, now 12 days later, Xin says it hasn't come through.
She says don't worry if it doesn't work the money will bounce back to me, but of course I will still have to pay charges.

In one of her recent emails she said:

"Now this is the newest news

A123 20AH pouch cell have stopped producing .

Now the cells dont have too much stock until sell out

I.e. Once we sell out all stock,it cant have stock any more ...

If has any purchase plans in future ,pls get ready for it in advance"

Go figure

[cwah]

No more A123 then ?

[ohzee]

Interesting. Sure am glad I have my stock.

[deVries]

No more A123 then ?

I will be doing a small order very soon, so I'll let you know if it completes. If anyone in the USA wants these cells, then you can still join that group buy. See my OP in the For Sale area for details.

[Sutho]

No more A123 then ?

Maybe this is because they have a new pouch cell they are producing?

See: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a123-says-battery-technology-evs-143720612.html

[MrJoshua]

The "We are out of stock soon, order now" thing is a push tactic. I would be surprised if they are truly out.

[999zip999]

E.S sales = What % of A23 20ah- B - grade cels world wide ? From Victpower ? Big weenie you . Kick them..

[deVries]

No more A123 then ?

Maybe this is because they have a new pouch cell they are producing?

See: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a123-says-battery-technology-evs-143720612.html

Good find Sutho.

At least we will find-out if all these recent cells were just a one time dump or a "next gen" cell is headed our way to buy soon too. I tend to believe now with more battery competition that A123 can't just sell their cells to captive Borg auto companies and remain in business. Of course, A123 may already be a captive slave of the auto industry, so it will keep being bailed-out by financing from the auto industry too. At least we can buy from China now.

There was a quote from some vip at GM about the Volt already using a special version of A123 chemistry in their cells, which is supposed to be more stable in extreme temps.

[webfootguy]

The reality is that A123Systems has about 5 months of cash on hand (go read their shareholder reports). If they do not find more financing or reduce costs (layoffs, drop products,etc.) or suddenly sign a big contract with up front $$, they will probably go Chapter 11 in 6 to 12 months. This does not mean someone else could not come in and buy their Intellectual Property and produce cells based on A123 chemistry but but it does not guarantee it. If A123 goes under, it would be a sad day for all of us.

They are not making good penetration into volume electric car ventures. Nissan did their own batteries, Chevy chose another vendor for the Volt, Tesla does their own, etc. I'm hopeful, but they are geared up to be a big vendor (i.e. produce large volume) and unfortunately do not have the sales numbers to support the cost of their infrastructure.

I've been there at a startup company going from day 1 to >1Billion/year in revenue and there are any number of mistakes or events out of your control that can take it all down. High risk, high reward.

[tkollen]

Yeah, unfortunately it looks like you are right. A123's stock price is today down at $0.71, down 50% from last week which is a far cry from its opening price of $28 two years ago. I tried to call A123Systems today to ask about the single cells available on the Chinese market but they don't seem to answer their phones.

[deVries]

Yeah, unfortunately it looks like you are right. A123's stock price is today down at $0.71, down 50% from last week which is a far cry from its opening price of $28 two years ago. I tried to call A123Systems today to ask about the single cells available on the Chinese market but they don't seem to answer their phones.

A123 consistently gets more or renewed financing deals from big industry players that buy their products. Unfortunately, this means more exclusive supply chains to "protected" customers & *maybe* continued backdoor plant "leakage" in China or Korea, IMO. This is good for us hobby players if we're willing to buy from China *assuming* supply remains. USA made cells only showed-up in China after the defect announcement, so that Made in USA supply may end completely once sold-out.

I really don't think A123 will disappear, transportation/utilities customers want their products, but it is possible some 3rd party preys on a Chapter 11. So far, A123 "power players" probably get better deals by investment financing & getting exclusive purchase contracts to be a better deal for them. Keeps A123 dependent on their money and exclusive supply requirements effectively "owning" or capturing their product and controlling A123 supply too.

[Ypedal]

just dropped into the site for a visit.. had been a while.. this came up :

http://www.a123systems.com/lithium-ion- ... nology.htm

[Harold in CR]

Got this from another place. Cells are in a GT race car.

This pack uses the new upgraded version of the A123Systems 26650 M1 cells (Called the "M1B" model 26650, not to be confused with "B grade" cells.) In addition to the nifty black stripes printed on the end of the cells, they have more than 10% higher power output and about 10% more energy content in the same size cell. The M1B cells each weigh a touch more than the standard M1 cells.

[deVries]

Thanks guys for your suggestions. Today and the day after filing my PayPal dispute Victpower informs me that my merchandise is ready to ship so I cancelled the dispute and hope everything is OK. In the meantime I made some inquiries with some of the vendors you suggested. Ping Batteries tells me that they don't use A123 20AH flat cells since all such cells on the market are B-grade. Can this be true? It seems that Victpower is the only supplier on the market with battery packs based on this kind of cells.

Did you receive your items from Victpower ok?

Has anyone received any 20Ah cells from Victpower recently????????