UK gov' consultation to allow higher power ebikes and throttles

Hi

The UK government is running a consultation to see if its a good idea to increase the legal ebike power limit.
they are thinking about increasing the power limit to 500w and allowing throttle control, which seems sensible.
If youre in the UK can you fill out the form?
you have untill 25th of April.


Thanks, Matthew

Wow, rare is the situation where government asks it's citizens i they want more freedom or not.

Don't miss this one! I'm going to temporarily pin this post for better visibility

Most of us currently in the uk will be too old to ride or pushing up daisies by the time the government sort anything out.
Consultation, big word, the meaning in government terms, "can be forgotten about for the next 4 or so years."

I am going to vote against both proposed changes. Thanks.

monster said:

increasing the power limit to 500w

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Power from an electric motor is partly a function of speed (=torque x rpm). I want power to get heavy loads up hill.

Safety can be addressed by mandated speed limiters - power is not relevant.

Illegal changes to controllers are exactly that - illegal. I've read another post recently about (I think it was) Dutch police using testing machines to ensure speed limiter compliance, and I agree to that - much more relevant than power limits. Another proper response is better policing of e-bike use, perhaps by putting more police on e-bikes?

I've read in the news of police in Sydney tackling people riding illegal e-bikes physically to stop them, and I applaud that, with concern about the safety of the police officers. I've also read that New South Wales state (Sydney is there) has increased it's e-bike motor limits to 500w - limit the speed and enforce it, but let us use the e-bikes to replace cars.

We can have a free-for-all or we can have a society. I have no problem participating in a society, and I have no problem with society putting limits on people who try to make this a free-for-all. I have no problem expecting people (who are adults) to be treated as adults and to expect to be treated as adults. If you want the freedom, admit and accept your responsibility to your fellow adults - leaves grow on trees, e-bikes (and hospitals and electricity) do not.

The real safety issue is speed, not power or whether you have a throttle. You can buy a Tesla plaid with over 1000hp and legally drive it on the street. Speed is relatively easy to enforce compared to technical details. You could mandate speed limiters but that approach is likely to fail.

offGridDownUnder said:

Illegal changes to controllers are exactly that - illegal.

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Can you elaborate what do you mean by illegal changes to controller? In UK you can do with controller whatever you want except derestricting assistance speed limit and derestricting throttle.

UK law puts a limit on continuous rated motor power at 250 watts. There is no limit on peak power otherwise everybody would have to get off and push their bikes up hills.

So it has nothing to do with what the controller and battery can deliver to the motor.

The motor needs to have a 250 watt label on it from the manufacturer and you can have any controller or battery you like, as long as you set up the controller to cut pedal assistance and throttle to the motor at 15.5 mph.

On e-bikes built after 1st January 2016, the throttle must be set up so that you have to be peddling for it to be active above 6km per hour. You can have throttle only upto 6km per hour.

E-bikes built before that date can have fully functional throttles upto 15.5 mph because they can claim grandfather rights before new EU legislation came into effect.

Off road switches are not allowed.

There is no law to say that you must cycle at or below 15.5 mph in the UK. But there must be no motor assistance above this speed.

Many cyclists are able to ride at 30 mph without motor assistance on analogue bikes. The police over here don‘t like to see people on e-bikes travelling at 30 mph without peddling, which is what many delivery riders have been doing, especially in pedestrian areas when they are picking up and dropping off their deliveries. So they have been clamping down in certain areas of the UK and impounding bikes.

This has led to some confusion regarding the law, where the media have been reporting misinformation regarding throttle usage. Many people now believe that throttles on e-bikes are illegal In the UK.

I do use my e-bike for a lot of journeys including shopping instead of the car as it is quicker, it also means that I can go thro' the park or for a forest run before going to the shops. I find where I am the main hazard is e-scooters, I have very nearly been taken out by a high powered one with two kids on it charging thro' a car park.

new usa ebike regulations sought by the consumer product safety commission
comments requested by 5-14-24

Matt Gruber said:

new usa ebike regulations sought by the consumer product safety commission
comments requested by 5-14-24

Regulations.gov

www.regulations.gov

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Oh my!

Reading the comments is quite interesting. Some posts are from out and out ebike haters. Throttles are a hot subject. Some advocate for Euro-like standards.

AGS said:

Many cyclists are able to ride at 30 mph without motor assistance on analogue bikes.

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Many? No. And certainly not for very long at a time.

Someone who's sprinting 30+ mph on an unpowered bike is in a heightened state of awareness, basically the opposite of a car driver. Throttling along at those speeds on a doofy sit-down e-bike is a lot closer to car-driver obliviousness than it is to a fit rider sprinting.

But it's still not as anaesthetic and mentally debilitating as car driving.

gromike said:

Oh my!

Reading the comments is quite interesting. Some posts are from out and out ebike haters. Throttles are a hot subject. Some advocate for Euro-like standards.

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here is a good video

I never understood these draconian power restrictions when fit individuals can ride pedal bikes faster than these restricted low power e-bikes can go. I was one of them... and still probably am even at my advanced age. So in my mind, these power restrictions are almost discriminatory against the less than fit humans.

raylo32 said:

I never understood these draconian power restrictions

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What draconian power restrictions are you talking about?

raylo32 said:

So in my mind, these power restrictions are almost discriminatory against the less than fit humans.

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Less fit humans are most welcome to get on bikes and become more fit. There is nothing discriminatory about it.

Az. said:

Can you elaborate what do you mean by illegal changes to controller?

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If the law in a jurisdiction specifies you can't change the controller, then such a change is illegal. Depends on where.

I'm in Australia, and among other requirements, on public roads and paths the motor must cease providing power at speeds above 25km/hr. If I change this on a bike, I'm breaking that law.

That's an illegal change to the controller.

offGridDownUnder said:

If the law in a jurisdiction specifies you can't change the controller, then such a change is illegal. Depends on where.

I'm in Australia, and among other requirements, on public roads and paths the motor must cease providing power at speeds above 25km/hr. If I change this on a bike, I'm breaking that law.

That's an illegal change to the controller.

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OK, thanks for clarification. Indeed in UK you can't legally set maximum assistance speed to above 25m/h without need of registration, but it has nothing to do with proposed changes to UK law. IN UK power delivered by controller is not restricted in any way (not sure how it is in Australia), and you can change it how you like.

In trying to understand the UK laws am I right in thinking that unless you buy a ready made ebike from a cycle shop or direct from a maker say Giant all other e-bikes are illegal?, as a retired person I have not got a money tree at the bottom of the garden to spend £5000+ on Giant mountain ebike.

dgc said:

In trying to understand the UK laws am I right in thinking that unless you buy a ready made ebike from a cycle shop or direct from a maker say Giant all other e-bikes are illegal?, as a retired person I have not got a money tree at the bottom of the garden to spend £5000+ on Giant mountain ebike.

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Theoretically all converted bikes are illegal until certified by one of approved testing centers. In practice nobody is doing that. As long as you try to comply with existing laws for EAPCs you should be fine.


"
Kit Motors
Be aware that hardly any of the above applies to kits or any home construction, the regulations only being for manufactured pedelecs. So both individuals and suppliers operate in a legal vacuum in which all try to supply and/or use as closely conforming to the complete e-bike law as they can, trusting that is acceptable. That has always worked throughout all of Europe and the UK without any mention of a possible prosecution, providing the three main points of the law are adhered to, i.e. 250 watts maximum assist, 15.5 mph maximum assist speed and power only when pedalling.

However, I can tell you the legal way of dealing with a kit, athough no-one has ever done it:

1) Buy and fit the motor kit.
2) Make an appointment at an approved vehicle testing station, paying the £55 test fee.
3) Most often the purpose of this is to get an SVA (Single Vehicle Approval), entitling it for use as a type approved motor vehicle. However your intention will be to get the inspector to agree that it meets the pedelec requirements so is exempt from being a motor vehicle and is approved as a pedelec.

However, if you get and accept SVA approval as well at the same time, as specified earlier in getting legal permission, you will be able to have a fully acting throttle on a post December 2015 pedelec with it still considered a bureaucracy free pedelec, a bonus. I repeat though, no-one to my knowedge has ever done this to create a kit pedelec so it's never been necessary, but it is the DfT specified correct way when creating any motorised vehicle from more than one vehicle or from parts.
"

Sorry for you gays, but Europe was always heavy over regulated in any field. Fortunate for me, hear in New York, caps are so busy chasing hard core criminals, and they don't have time to be bather with electric vehicles.
I converted fat wheels bike into electric, installing 5kW gearless hub, purchased from AliExpress and 72V, 30Ah lithium battery which, I put together using Samsung 50E 21700 cells. Can easily get to 45 mph, but usually travel at around 30 - 35 to extend the range.
So far was never bather by any authorities, got the filling I'm invisible for them, for some reason. Just don't do any crazy staff like going against the traffic or race police vehicles, lol. Similar situation to sailing the sailboat on New York Harbor. For last 30 years none ask me even one question...lol

Thanks all, at this rate I think I could get myself certified quicker, a close friend / work colleague of mine who sadly died quite a while back once said to me can you prove you are sane, to which I said no, he then said I can, I've got a certificate when I was released from hospital. I think I will have to sign in before I go bonkers.

Az. said:

250 watts maximum assist, 15.5 mph maximum assist speed and power only when pedalling

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I understand the Aussie law is modeled on the European ones. The UK details might be helpful for someone assembling their own.

There is a detail I've learned about, which may or may not fit with UK law - '250w' does not mean 250 watts maximum.

Rather, it means that it fits some testing approach that leads to a motor that can't sustain indefinite use at above 250w.

A '250w' motor is one rated not to survive lengthy use at more than 250w, rather than a motor that never uses more than 250w. It's common for such a motor to shows peaks up to several times that value.

So, for someone that is assembling their own, look for the manufacturers rating, rather than setting your electronics never to permit more than 250w. The same if the motor power limit is lifted, as it has been here in New South Wales state.

offGridDownUnder said:

There is a detail I've learned about, which may or may not fit with UK law - '250w' does not mean 250 watts maximum.

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Yes, of course. 250W legal limit is set on motor rated power, which (with some simplification) is a label put on motor by manufacturer. Some manufacturers are more flexible and will put right label for some distributors (if asked nicely) and some won't. I love flexible approach to the subject by Grinn Technologies. You want legal label on? They will engrave it for you

offGridDownUnder said:

So, for someone that is assembling their own, look for the manufacturers rating, rather than setting your electronics never to permit more than 250w. The same if the motor power limit is lifted, as it has been here in New South Wales state.

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You would have to look really hard to find a bike restricted to 250W



Above you have road legal 250W rated motor. 48V x 15A = 750W. You can have legally all power you need within some reasoneable boundries of course.

PS Fragment you quoted was written by Flecc - our legal expert, but I see it now and I don't think he got it right. IMO it should be:
"250 watts maximum motor rated power, 15.5 mph maximum assist speed and power only when pedalling"
I am going to write to him and ask him to correct his legal guide.

Maciek said:

Sorry for you gays, but Europe was always heavy over regulated in any field.

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You are mistaken my friend. European e-bike law is very liberal and unrestrictive. Enforcement is also almost non existing, so you can ride your 5kW moped undisturbed for a long time until you get caught by police (highly unlikely), or find yourself involved in an accident (which is far more likely). Then real problems start as you would be charged with driving illegal vehicle without registration plates, without insurance, without MOT etc. Then lawsuit would follow and you would loose last penny and maybe you would serve some time in prison.

So... what is your plan if you find yourself involved in accident in NY? I wonder if "caps" would turn blind eye then as well. I wonder what is likelihood of you being sued in NY...

Maciek said:

Sorry for you gays, but Europe was always heavy over regulated in any field. Fortunate for me, hear in New York, caps are so busy chasing hard core criminals, and they don't have time to be bather with electric vehicles.

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