16S LiFe BMS Research

Ok, we could drop those that go only to 17S. I strongly prefer those that can run up to 20S

* 10 - 17
* 12 - 20
* 16 - 20
* 16 - 19
* 16 - 20
* 10 - 17

In same order listed. Hmmmm..... eh... 10S is actually a standard I hold around the house just because there is so much industry support for it. Nice to be able to go that low.

20S is something I could strive for, but 99.9% of the time I run 16S LiFePO4 with no exceptions. The only reason I am picking a BMS that can do alternate chemistries is to

* Support Ebike

Hrm.... Cant say I feel good about the three that S T A R T at 16S. Wonder why that is.

* 10 - 17
* 16 - 19/20
* 12 - 20

So the 12 to 20 seems most useful to me eh?

thoughts to think on

-methods
 
Starting with the 12-20

* I dont like the sound of all that external ON / OFF
* It has Precharge it claims !>???!

https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/product/12s-13s-14s-15s-16s-17s-18s-19s-20s-li-ion-or-lifepo4-battery-smart-bluetooth-bms-with-60a-constant-current/

That is what I am reading.

ok, specs say it draws from battery, no need external, which is important!

ok, meh
Not particularly excited by it. The balance current of 50mA is not particularly exciting.

-methods
 
I just picked this stuff up down at the bait and tackle shop. I swear everything he has down there is known good. So let's see what I got

PXL_20221126_165623881_compress28.jpg

* The green one looks like general metal protection
* The red one looks like a penetrating fluid that safe on electronics and focused on corrosion

So one kind of sounds like cosmoline, the other sounds like PB blaster. Sweet

... I have not tried that particular fuel treatment, but it's the most important thing to do with carbureted anything. Since I started treating my fuel

* Haven't had to rebuild the carburetor
* Haven't had hard starts
* Haven't had water fouled fuel

It's absolutely required for generators and boats*

... And finally the butt juice
By God I have no idea what that is ... but it's 2 oz of gel. I guess I'll try it and tell you if it burns.

-methods
 
My personal preference is to avoid anything with the word "Smart" in the name. All that bluetooth, programmable stuff is cool when it works but it also seems to be a major failure point. KISS.
 
Given the last DALY thread, maybe you could put a query in for what MOSFETs they are using before purchasing instead of buying and replacing them? Or even spec your own for a price adjustment? I often buy batteries and get given the option of generic vs. Samsung cells, etc.. Kind of contradicts your ready, Amazon stock preferred requirement, though.

Barring that, another option is to buy something that has already passed tear down in one forum or another.

Over-speccing on the maximum s count feels like it will help too. Even if you only use 16S, if it has16-20S support, and LiIon support, the components need to handle higher voltages than the cheaper 60V limit components.
 
methods said:
That is REALLY where I went wrong with DALY, I should have taken one of their 60A units. I only downsized in an attempt to have the BMS limits count toward my cabling protection. If you run a 60A BMS with 10AWG then you definitely have to add breakers or fuses
if it has multiple shunts, remove some to bring current limit down. it will detect a higher current than reality and shutdown proportionally sooner...but all the parts will still be rated for the higher current and be better able to handle the lower current.

alternately change teh shunt(s) to higher resistance units for the same effect.
 
methods said:
Yea, I have worked with this software before. The thing to know...

* ONLY LOGS TO PHONE
* NO MEMORY INSIDE BMS
* YOU WILL GET NO DATALOG UNLESS ACTIVELY CONNECTED
has serial output? got a grin cycle analogger? hmmm.....
 
Most fuel treatments are just pure fuel ethanol to pull as much water out of the fuel as possible, with maybe some other additives. Hope it works for you tho, rebuilding carbs sucks
 
Wow, does this 20A rated Ant BMS really have 120A rated MOSFETs?
https://youtu.be/Gh4ayxhsxKU

Maybe they don't actually make a 20A rated part, just program a more capable one to have a lower current limit.

Still doesn't fit Amazon Prime requirement, but I think Sriko Batteries stocks them in US and they sell on Amazon as non-Prime sometimes.
 
Now for the main event
Scrolling up to answer any posts

-methods
 
fechter said:
My personal preference is to avoid anything with the word "Smart" in the name. All that bluetooth, programmable stuff is cool when it works but it also seems to be a major failure point. KISS.


Troof - I wants no more SmarT bms's. No smart chargers, no smart BMS, no smart anything. I want stupid and reliable.



lnanek said:
Given the last DALY thread, maybe you could put a query in for what MOSFETs they are using before purchasing instead of buying and replacing them? Or even spec your own for a price adjustment? I often buy batteries and get given the option of generic vs. Samsung cells, etc.. Kind of contradicts your ready, Amazon stock preferred requirement, though.

Quite valid, and how we did it in the past. I no longer have the bandwidth for this or I would. I am at the point in the Revolution where I need to be able to point at something and say

* Buy that one
* It will arrive within 1-3 days
* They have consistent quality

What is missing from DALY is a LOT code - right? If they had simply followed something like ISO 9001 and kept track of that lot of BMS I could trust them to purge those from stock.

BUT

They did not... did they? So floating around in the market are anywhere from 0pcs to 1,000,000pcs of those totally dysfunctional and hazardous BMS. The only way to make right now would be to purge every single unit that even looked like that + run a new batch and test + send replacements to everyone who ever bought one. With all the middle men involved, an impossible task. With how cheap they sell them, possibly a bankrupting task.

F'ERS burned me, we will never do business again
Happy to supply the specific Amazon seller who sold me bunk goods. They even held my order up to make a fuss about how they were not rated for wiring Series OR Parallel. The Series part is important, the Parallel part is not. If you cant run those BMS on batteries that are paralleled then there is something FAR more wrong with them

So - tells me they already had people complaining
and - they are still selling

PAUSE (I am still upset about the whole thing)

lnanek said:
Barring that, another option is to buy something that has already passed tear down in one forum or another.

Over-speccing on the maximum s count feels like it will help too. Even if you only use 16S, if it has16-20S support, and LiIon support, the components need to handle higher voltages than the cheaper 60V limit components.

You have good ideas brother. Who am I talking to?
lnanek

Thank you lnanek, you are on point with this for sure. Definitely looking for something which has been proven true... trouble is... I have to get these on the cheaper since I have to buy so many. I literally need like 30pcs. I need to standardize and never think about this again.

Back to it

-methods
 
amberwolf said:
methods said:
That is REALLY where I went wrong with DALY, I should have taken one of their 60A units. I only downsized in an attempt to have the BMS limits count toward my cabling protection. If you run a 60A BMS with 10AWG then you definitely have to add breakers or fuses
if it has multiple shunts, remove some to bring current limit down. it will detect a higher current than reality and shutdown proportionally sooner...but all the parts will still be rated for the higher current and be better able to handle the lower current.

alternately change teh shunt(s) to higher resistance units for the same effect.

Valid point above



amberwolf said:
methods said:
Yea, I have worked with this software before. The thing to know...

* ONLY LOGS TO PHONE
* NO MEMORY INSIDE BMS
* YOU WILL GET NO DATALOG UNLESS ACTIVELY CONNECTED
has serial output? got a grin cycle analogger? hmmm.....

pffffffft!
That is the one product I can not get behind. Everyone needs to be able to rig up their own waterproof Arduino. My favorite is to build them into ABS or PVC pipe with IP67 connector

PXL_20210509_174014960_compress8-768x1024.jpg

-methods
 
Oh here we go
I am up for Cliff Jumping in Santa Cruz if anyone wants to check efficacy.

Reduced002.jpg

SE-IoT bro!
DIY Arduino Logger with cloud access

Jump-1024x576.png

-methods
 
I cant find the damn picture... Combing thru 4,444 AHHHHHH

Screenshot_20220924-202749-498x1024.png

Its methods waterproof logger

meh, that is all in the chunk of time that I was on the other server with the other website.
ONWARD

-methods
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Most fuel treatments are just pure fuel ethanol to pull as much water out of the fuel as possible, with maybe some other additives. Hope it works for you tho, rebuilding carbs sucks

Really?
I do not know how they work, only that they work. I was actually out hunting non-ethanol fuel, like dock fuel. Oh well, I believe you.

So
Since I started treating (with the regular stuff from oreillys auto) I have had zero trouble with the boat or generator, after YEARS of hard starts and fouled fuel living next to the ocean. We are super wet here

NOTE
I much prefer oreillys auto
I cant spell it tho, so I call out AutoZone when I mean to say Auto Parts Store. Dude, Autozone kinda sucks k?

-methods
 
lnanek said:
Wow, does this 20A rated Ant BMS really have 120A rated MOSFETs?
https://youtu.be/Gh4ayxhsxKU

Maybe they don't actually make a 20A rated part, just program a more capable one to have a lower current limit.

Still doesn't fit Amazon Prime requirement, but I think Sriko Batteries stocks them in US and they sell on Amazon as non-Prime sometimes.

I dont know, lets go see
Mosfet rating can fool you. This is the IDEAL bonding limit, so if you apply a liquid nitrogen cooling block and keep cranking up the current this in the fusing current at which they will fail. IR fets are regularly 350A+, but those will still overheat in a 20A controller

you know?

So anyway -
A lot impacts that 100A - 300A number like the package

Lets see what you have here

-methods
 
Watching the video from toilet voice to text

2.2mOhm super low! Must be lower voltage*

Notice only half the mosfets of the board are populated

Yeah that's a nice tear down we need more of those. Whoever populated that BMS used a smaller quantity of a higher quality. That's how we win for the revolution.

-methods
 
Anyhow to get back on topic... Anytime you are logging off the USB, uart, BLE, etc you are chugging battery current. It's also very myopic - single battery centric.

If you wanted to do this for 20 batteries you have to run a different bus. CAN, RS485, something that is not Master slave.

I don't want to talk about it.
BMS is with data logging are for tinkering and learning. After that they are for embedding and monitoring. There's a price to pay for that, and it drives you into larger format packs

5kw pack?
Sure, I would want BMS communication

1kw packs?
I do not want the BMS talking... Unless it is doing so in a way that doesn't suck... Like the. ISOLATED uart advertised earlier in this thread

Now
If I can focus, I can down select and get some ordering done. I have not even had my breakfast... And the plan is to start drinking whiskey at 10:00 a.m. after church is out

-methods
 
Actually I think I'm going to drop everything and go to Harbor Freight.

-methods
 
Absolutely love the thread and all your work Methods. Any recommendations on "Dumb" BMS'es with your learnings, so far?

methods said:
Really?
I do not know how they work, only that they work. I was actually out hunting non-ethanol fuel, like dock fuel. Oh well, I believe you.

So
Since I started treating (with the regular stuff from oreillys auto) I have had zero trouble with the boat or generator, after YEARS of hard starts and fouled fuel living next to the ocean. We are super wet here

NOTE
I much prefer oreillys auto
I cant spell it tho, so I call out AutoZone when I mean to say Auto Parts Store. Dude, Autozone kinda sucks k?

-methods

GRM to the rescue! Ethanol is a pretty good fuel that just has a ton of political BS floating around because the era it was mandated in (though it's been used in our gas since we finally began to ban lead in the 70s).
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/a-good-way-to-find-ethanol-free-fuel/217039/page1/

Also it's wierd how shops are like that. My local autozone is great and is the only shop that can test an alternator, and my old O'Reilieys was good too. The NAPA where I grew up once had a drag car who's team was the shop owner and all his workforce even! They're just so location dependent.
 
Well I am going to have to read about all of that. My understanding was that the fuel off the pump was hydroscopic (drawing water) and this is why I keep gumming up my carburetors etc.

So... Adding more ethanol is confusing for me

PXL_20221204_172917674.MP_compress58.jpg

Lets see... This came off of Amazon Prime, not Harbor Freight. Y E S it is the "real deal".

PXL_20221204_214405484_compress83.jpg

And...

PXL_20221204_222911397_compress5.jpg

LiFePo4?

PXL_20221204_222925847_compress60.jpg

I built the big 120Ah 4S for my boat. I left it sitting for months with the "smart" bms and it seems OK. Just not having to have the damn battery tender on the boat will be enough for me.

1C
120Ah = 120A
So... er... I am going to need about 4 or 5 of those to crank this 5.8L V8

-methods
 
42.png

29 44 31 17 55 02 18

-methods
 
methods said:
PXL_20221204_214405484_compress83.jpg

And...

PXL_20221204_222911397_compress5.jpg
Some time ago, I built a debris-recovery magnet bar out of an old bit of pallet-wood with strings on the end to pull it with, and some salvaged ceramic "sign magnets" screwed under it along it's length to pickup all the shards and shrapnel from grinding/cutting/welding/etc in my yard, so the dogs wouldn't get toe-owies from it; I drag it around the area after I work on stuff to pickup everything I can. The magnets are not as powerful as that one you have pictured, but a few passes seems to get everything anyway.

(I used ceramic magnets because they don't hold their fields as close to their surfaces, so they will pick up stuff from a longer distance away than a stronger neodymium type; then just use a lot of them so they would have a lot of surface area).
 
Somebody is spamming in on my account. Multiple edits.

-methods
 
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