Anyone used Turnigy 6374 149Kv, and other questions

B

BladeScraper

100 mW
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
39
I converted my Razor E100 to Brushless using a Scorpion HK4025-740Kv and am currently running 3s 7200mAh. I put my watt meter on and it read a peak of 1048W. It has tons of acceleration and can hit 20MPH, but the problem is that the motor gets very hot (180F+) after a 1 mile drive, and the ESC gets quite warm. Also the battery doesn't last very long. (1-1.5 miles only) The meter said I got a peak of 85A, most likely when climbing a hill.

One thing I love about this setup I have, is that I have the HobbyWing Platinum Pro 100A V3 ESC, and man what a good governor that thing has. I set it to about 60-70% and the speed when riding is absolutely constant. And if I want to go up a hill, I can either leave it at 60-70% and it keeps on going, or, I just go full throttle and is HAULS up the hill like you wouldn't believe. Motor just gets hot.


I want to convert to 12s (48v) LiPo and plan on using the Turnigy 6374 149Kv motor. I am gonna gear it to get a top speed of 20-25MPH and have a MASSIVE amount of haul-ass behind it. I'm not that heavy (about 125lbs) so weight really isn't a big concern to me. I plan to use 16,000mAh 12s (two sets of 6s 8000mAh in series, in parallel), and maybe eventually 32,000mAh 12s. About how much range will this probably get me, if its possible to estimate?


Has anyone used this motor, and if so, how is it? Power, amperage, heat, etc.? What ESC are you using for it?

Also, is there some sort of battery meter that I can use that will reach all the way to the handle bars and tell me what voltage my battery is at? Needs to be good up to 50.4v which is a fully charged 12s LiPo.


Also, is there a throttle you can buy that is spring loaded and will work with a RC ESC? (1000-2000ms pulse width)

Thanks
 
I assume. Your motor is working too hard to get you up to speed. The motor will spin fast but it's getting hot because their is not enough torque. At least I think.

I would suggest try running it at the 12S setup and use the 6374 SK3 motor. These motors have a great amount of torque and 12S voltage will make them fast.

The motor itself is a great motor but it's about twice the size of your 40mm motor.

As for the other questions. I'm not sure.

Show us some pictures of your setup. An E100 is an easy project :) Would like to see your setup.
 
lol yeah. no doubt its working too hard. It's not a very big motor :) the scooter is also quite heavy.

Theoretically with the 149Kv Turnigy (not taking into consideration inefficiency or load) it would do 7509RPM with 12s fully charged. Of course it won't be that much while being used (80% efficiency, and also the load will slow it down, and also voltage sag, sigh). I used a go-kart speed calculator and after taking into consideration inefficiency, theoretically it could do 25MPH with a 12T sprocket on the motor. Or 20MPH with a 11T. That is, though, at 100% throttle, and still not taking load and voltage sag into consideration. It would be more like 20MPH with 12T, and 16-17MPH with 11T. I would probably go to 13T for 25MPH.

I will make a new thread and post pics, I just want to get feedback on this motor in this thread :) Just, when you see how I mounted the sprocket to the motor, please don't laugh at me :lol:


I'm really liking this forum. Very quick responses and good people so far :)
 
If there is room for the 63mm diameter motor, you will be very happy with it. When going from a 40mm diameter motor, you have moved the airgap of the magnets about 50% farther away from the shaft, so the leverage of however many watts you are applying will dramatically improve the torque. The extra copper mass will handle the heat well, but there will likely be less heat in the first place due to the diameter swap.

Buy or borrow a Castle Creations ESC, they have data-logging, and it allows you to see exactly whats going on (peak amps, voltage ripple, etc). I would suggest charging the batteries to only 4.10V per cell (49-ish volts at 12S), to help prevent damage to whatever ESC you are using. Your current ESC seems to be working fine, but the low-ESR capacitors are less than $2 each, I'd install two more as cheap insurance, since my 100A Castle ESC was roughly $120.

My experience was with an electric bike friction drive (link in my sig below), but the components were the same. Several guys experimented with the 50mm's (which worked), but they got hot sometimes. Swap to the 63mm, and it was all good (your improvement should be even better). The lower Kv even allowed for higher volts, which then lowered the amps (and the amp-heat) even more.
 
it's a 63mm... but... yes, that's the goal :mrgreen:

I am going to gear it for medium speed and insane torque. I could go to 40MPH with the right gearing, but then I would need to get it registered which I don't want to do (and can't). :)
 
BladeScraper said:
I converted my Razor E100 to Brushless using a Scorpion HK4025-740Kv and am currently running 3s 7200mAh. I put my watt meter on and it read a peak of 1048W. It has tons of acceleration and can hit 20MPH, but the problem is that the motor gets very hot (180F+) after a 1 mile drive, and the ESC gets quite warm. Also the battery doesn't last very long. (1-1.5 miles only) The meter said I got a peak of 85A, most likely when climbing a hill.

One thing I love about this setup I have, is that I have the HobbyWing Platinum Pro 100A V3 ESC, and man what a good governor that thing has. I set it to about 60-70% and the speed when riding is absolutely constant. And if I want to go up a hill, I can either leave it at 60-70% and it keeps on going, or, I just go full throttle and is HAULS up the hill like you wouldn't believe. Motor just gets hot.


I want to convert to 12s (48v) LiPo and plan on using the Turnigy 6374 149Kv motor. I am gonna gear it to get a top speed of 20-25MPH and have a MASSIVE amount of haul-ass behind it. I'm not that heavy (about 125lbs) so weight really isn't a big concern to me. I plan to use 16,000mAh 12s (two sets of 6s 8000mAh in series, in parallel), and maybe eventually 32,000mAh 12s. About how much range will this probably get me, if its possible to estimate?


Has anyone used this motor, and if so, how is it? Power, amperage, heat, etc.? What ESC are you using for it?



Also, is there some sort of battery meter that I can use that will reach all the way to the handle bars and tell me what voltage my battery is at? Needs to be good up to 50.4v which is a fully charged 12s LiPo.


Also, is there a throttle you can buy that is spring loaded and will work with a RC ESC? (1000-2000ms pulse width)

Thanks
Click to expand...
seems you're not getting near the milage as people here with skateboards. Typically people are getting a mile per amphour but that's on 6s. I didn't read what gearing you're using but people are getting that range with 85mm wheels and 2:1 or 3:1 gearing.
 
i think your only problem is a lack of volts but hopefully someone else who knows more will tell you for sure why youre getting hot and awful range

I don't think you're under geared but the math is not within me at this moment.

that Scorpion motor you have does 70 amps continuous and 2450watts and I strongly doubt it should be getting hot. Infact the turnigy 6374 is only rated to 2250 watts and also 70 amps. Why bother switching?!!!!!! The scorpion you have is really nice and I want it! hopefully you haven't cooked it's magnets. your scorpion is really a 50mm by turnigy's measuring too.

I'm guessing the low voltage you're using is causing the heat. I think maybe without the volts you're having to rely fully on amps to meet the demands and amps=heat. I'd keep that great motor on and just up your voltage to something as low as even 6s. 3s is really low.
The turnigy is rated for 12s and the scorpion is rated to only ten but...I wonder how it would do on 12s. Lately I heard the winding enamel is probably the same for a 4s or 12s motor (maybe thicker?) and it's the mechanics of spinning so fast on 12s that is limiting..and maybe if you put some nicer ceramic bearings in you could be fine.
 
Here's my problems with the 4025:

1. Tooooooo fast. It's 740Kv. No doubt the heat is lack of voltage... but I can't run it any faster. Running 12s would make it turn 28,000 RPM, which according to a calculator would do 84MPH :p Even 6s would give me over 40MPH... all I want is ~20-25 and high torque... the only way I can get that speed is on 3s... but that eats battery for dinner and the motor gets hot enough to cook an egg :mrgreen:

If I could get it custom wound to 150-175Kv it would be great... but the stator is already packed with copper and I just don't think you could fit any more... (less Kv needs more windings)


2. Shaft. I NEED a 8mm shaft desperately. The 4025 has a 6mm shaft, and the sprockets I need are 8mm. Surplus supply has 5/16 bore which is just under 8mm. Get a 8mm drill bit, drill them out, boom, done. They come with a pre-made hole for a set screw as well. They have 11T all the way to 18T or more. They have 1/4 bore, but that is too big for a 6mm shaft. I don't want any wobbles... remember, you can make a hole bigger, but you can't make one smaller.

Supposedly I could get a 8mm shaft for the Scorpion 4025 (since it has a 8mm internal, 6mm the rest of the way, shaft) but I'm still stuck with the high Kv. = bad. :)

3. Stator just ain't big enough for hill climbing. Only 40mm :( Stator on the 6374 is probably, what, 55mm or so? Way more torque there. 55mm is a big stator. And its very long too.... stator is probably like 50 or 60mm? TWICE of my 4025. I don't know how much more torque this would produce even at the same watts, but it's a lot more. IIRC, increasing the diameter will improve torque dramatically, if you keep the wattage the same. IIRC with the 6374 I should get 2 or 3 times the torque as the 4025 with the same wattage. And since the vehicle speed will be about the same (a little more), the hill climbing ability will be unbelievable.





I have been taking it pretty easy on the Scorp with its current setup. Mild hills (except one that I go on for about 100 ft to get to my house, otherwise thats all) and the rest flat. There are tons of very steep hills in my neighbourhood, I have been avoiding them completely because I know it will not survive. Battery would die before I got done with the second hill. Lol. And if I got more batteries, the motor or ESC would burst into flames :shock:






Now, that that is out of the way, does anyone here wind RC motors, and do you think you can get it as low as 150KV :)
 
What gear ratio do u effectively have I wonder with those big wheels.

But u say it has lots of torque anyway

My question is related to your watts and torque Relationship. Watts are watts regardless of their make-up. they equal power and composed of torque x Rpms. With more gear ratio the motor will spin faster and youll get the watts that way. That speed will be converted to torque through the gearing. I'd have though with the appropriate gearing for the high kv you'd be just the same as a low kv with less gearing.

Maybe youre limited with the gearing and can't find a moor pulley big enough

You can turn any wattage motor into lots of torque with the right gearing

You can make ur motor a lower kv with the same amount of copper if the windings are thinner. Or u could retwrminate it wye. And u can do it outside the can from what I read with an led n battery. But a bigger gear sounds easier


I
 
The problem with bigger gears are that there are none that will fit. 47t is what there is, and there's all there is. Mainly because if you had a bigger gear, it would be bigger than the wheel is. Which would be very very bad obviously.


The main thing is, if I got a bigger motor, I COULD gear it higher for more speed if desired. If I geared the 4025 lower there would be less heat, more torque (though it really don't need more when just carrying me) and all would be cool. If I geared it any higher it would burn up and kill the batteries in two seconds. If I geared the 6374 higher, I would get more speed and since its such a big motor running on such a high voltage, as long as I wasn't stupid I wouldn't heat anything up very much at all.



I want the torque the 6374 can provide because I plan to be carrying my RC heli stuff to where I fly my helicopters (0.5 miles away to the nearest, or 2.75 niles to the bigger one). And they are quite large, and heavy. I want to be able to gear it to 20-25MPH and have a massive amount of torque. My 4025 is geared for 20MPH, and has massive torque, but it gets HOT.... because I am pushing it 20A above its maximum current rating. In order to get 20MPH and NOT get hot, I need a more torquey motor, with higher voltage, and less amps. Max I should draw with the 6374 is probably 50-70A at FULL acceleration from zero, and 30-40A at full throttle cruising, and 20A at cruising at a governed RPM.
 
BladeScraper said:
The problem with bigger gears are that there are none that will fit. 47t is what there is, and there's all there is. Mainly because if you had a bigger gear, it would be bigger than the wheel is. Which would be very very bad obviously.
ok that makes sense but how about a smaller gear on the motor instead then?


The main thing is, if I got a bigger motor, I COULD gear it higher for more speed if desired. If I geared the 4025 lower there would be less heat, more torque (though it really don't need more when just carrying me) and all would be cool. If I geared it any higher it would burn up and kill the batteries in two seconds. If I geared the 6374 higher, I would get more speed and since its such a big motor running on such a high voltage, as long as I wasn't stupid I wouldn't heat anything up very much at all.
all this talk of bigger and smaller is confusing me. a bigger gear in my mind means rpm reduction at the wheel. but you could fit the same size pulley on either motor I imagine. These two motors are very similar in their ability to produce watts meaning take amps and volts, the size is bigger for the 6374 but it must have lower quality enamel on the wire otherwise it would be able to take more amps and produce more watts. it does produce more torque DIRECTLY off the shaft and won't need the gearing the 700kv needs. the 6374 might not get as hot (and therefore a bit more efficient) due to its mass but the ultimate abilities are very similar except 6374 is stated to take a bit more voltage if wanted. the only real difference is the kv...which from my own looking and asking on here non-stop I don't think it's nearly as big a variable as the actual gearing. The low kv seemingly can produce more torque since more torque per amp but with it's high internal resistance due to such thin windings it ballances out and they're roughly the same...as long as you gear it right


I want the torque the 6374 can provide because I plan to be carrying my RC heli stuff to where I fly my helicopters (0.5 miles away to the nearest, or 2.75 niles to the bigger one). And they are quite large, and heavy. I want to be able to gear it to 20-25MPH and have a massive amount of torque. My 4025 is geared for 20MPH, and has massive torque, but it gets HOT.... because I am pushing it 20A above its maximum current rating. In order to get 20MPH and NOT get hot, I need a more torquey motor, with higher voltage, and less amps. Max I should draw with the 6374 is probably 50-70A at FULL acceleration from zero, and 30-40A at full throttle cruising, and 20A at cruising at a governed RPM.
Click to expand...

more torque can be achieved with gearing and not really the motor's kv like I was saying above the scorpion are expensive because of their ingredients and ability to perform as if they were bigger. I think I'm right on this and hopefully someone else will chime in
 
I am aware that the gearing gets torque and not Kv. But when you want more torque and you can't really do anything with gearing (in fact, in my case I actually have to go up to a 11t from 9t that I have now because 9t isn't available the way I need (8mm Bore and set screw), you can either go with a bigger motor of the same speed on the same voltage, get a same size motor with Lower Kv and increase voltage (decreasing amp), or get a bigger motor with lower Kv and higher voltage (what I want to do)


All of them will do the same in increasing torque, but lower Kv and higher voltage will give you the same or more torque (or watts) at less amps.


This is the way Rc helicopters are done. Small helicopters with 200-250mm blades use 3s, 360mm blades use 6s, 425-500mm blades use 6s, 550mm blades use 12s, and 700mm blades use 12s or 14s. If you tried getting the kind of power you get on a 700 with 12s (peaks of 15,000w have been seen), and tried to get that on 3s, you would be talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of amps. Some of the highest power 700's are already seeing peaks of 250A on 14s voltages!!




One good example of this comcept is a 360mm blade heli, in my OWN experience.

I have a 360mm heli called a Gaui X3. Originally I ran it on 3s LiPo, and when flying crazy I was seeing peaks of 100A. I cut the motor Kv in half, doubled the battery to 6s (cut capacity in half to keep weight the same) and I never saw peaks above 50A.


This concept, when applied to scooters, should give me more run time, assuming the same battery capacity, compared to a 6s system of similar power.


Right?


Ohms law states: I = P/V (current = power / volt)

2750w / (12 cells x 4v per cell) = 57.29A
2750W / (6 cells x 4v per cell) = 114.58A

:)
 
ohm's law states current = voltage/resistance
...but current = power / volts sounds legit too.




BladeScraper said:
I am aware that the gearing gets torque and not Kv. But when you want more torque and you can't really do anything with gearing (in fact, ok I hear you can't add a smaller pulley to the motorin my case I actually have to go up to a 11t from 9t that I have now because 9t isn't available the way I need (8mm Bore and set screw) I see 6mm shafts with lower teeth count at least...if you do decide to stay with the scorpion...dont know what type of pulley you need actually so maybe notou can either go with a bigger motor of the same speed on the same voltagewhen you say a bigger motor in my mind I'm thinking bigger amp and watt ability and the two motors look almost the same, get a same size motor with Lower Kv and increase voltage (decreasing amp), or get a bigger motor with lower Kv and higher voltage (what I want to do)


All of them will do the same in increasing torque, but lower Kv and higher voltage will give you the same or more torque (or watts) at less amps.


This is the way Rc helicopters are done. Small helicopters with 200-250mm blades use 3s, 360mm blades use 6s, 425-500mm blades use 6s, 550mm blades use 12s, and 700mm blades use 12s or 14s. If you tried getting the kind of power you get on a 700 with 12s (peaks of 15,000w have been seen), and tried to get that on 3s, you would be talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of amps. Some of the highest power 700's are already seeing peaks of 250A on 14s voltages!!




One good example of this comcept is a 360mm blade heli, in my OWN experience.

I have a 360mm heli called a Gaui X3. Originally I ran it on 3s LiPo, and when flying crazy I was seeing peaks of 100A. I cut the motor Kv in half, doubled the battery to 6s (cut capacity in half to keep weight the same) and I never saw peaks above 50A.


This concept, when applied to scooters, should give me more run time, assuming the same battery capacity, compared to a 6s system of similar power.


Right?


Ohms law states: I = P/V (current = power / volt)

2750w / (12 cells x 4v per cell) = 57.29A
2750W / (6 cells x 4v per cell) = 114.58A

:)
Click to expand...
 
All of the things used in Ohm's law equations can be used to find the other ones.

Since P = IC, then I = P / V, also V = P / I

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

Type any two options in those boxes and it solves for the other two :)
 
you know more about this than me and I appreciate your help with this. :D

I'm wondering about the equation you gave me on that webpage and the results I got.

with 30 volts and 700 watts the resistance was about 1.2
with 12 volts and 700 watts the resistance was about .2

I'm confused about resistance. I understand resistance as thin wires as apposed to thick. Passing amps through thin wires wastes energy. You want thicker wires to reduce the resistance. Or you can use volts. So how come the numbers above are showing more resistance with more volts? I'd have thought the resistance, and waste energy, would go down with more volt use and up with more amp use.

Is resistance ever good?

when is it appropriate to attach...the bunny with the pancake on its head? :pancake:
 
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