Extra wide bottom brackets for battery box clearance

[Chalo]

Yeah I definately want to keep it pedalable. One of my bikes has a 150mm bb and that works fine...

Now if I could just find a SYMetrical 150mm BB, or 130mm BB with wide cranks.

The 132.5mm BB from Sick Bike Parts is symmetrical. I used it to fix up a bike for a big guy not too long ago.

The threaded spindle BB you found is for bikes that take a one-piece crank, like old cruisers. A threaded BB shell can't be made to work with them.

There is a kind of cheap crank I sometimes get for economical repairs. It has a strange combination of highly flared arms and an inboard-mounted single ring. I don't know if that would buy you enough room for your battery box, but it's pretty wide pedal spacing you can get with relatively normal chainline from the ring.

On one of my bikes that uses a three-piece BMX crank, I put spacing washers between the chainwheel and the crankarm to increase the tread width without changing the chainline. If you wanted to do something like that, you could accomplish it by using Profile cranks which have a 175mm spindle available, and which use a bolt rather than a pin to transmit torque. My bike which is set up that way has 160mm of clear space between the insides of the crank ends. It sounds like that's not as much room as you need.

I really doubt you'll be able to pedal effectively around a battery box 7-1/2" wide, even if you can make the cranks work. I know I would not be able to do it. You need that space for your legs, which have priority over batteries. When I mount a frame bag 2" wide, my knees brush against it when I pedal normally.

 

[The Stig]

I figured out how to fit the battery box so I could go with tighter crank spacing. I think it'll be ok with such a wide battery box, this will be a 3000w ebike so pedaling will not be the primary drive. And the saddle will be lower than normal so that makes it a bit easier to open the knees wider.

I think I will go with the 131.5mm cartridge BB from sick bike parts.
Or this(if that would work?):
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=80&osCsid=jc5ue89assni6stqfshu8p64n1


And wide crank arms. It seems sickbikeparts.com dont carrry them so I'll get em from piratecycles1.com, who are 40 mins away from me, if they ever respond.

 

[Chalo]

Or this(if that would work?):
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=80

That will do, if your bottom bracket shell is 73mm wide. There is a cheaper one in the same length for 68mm shells. You'll have to round up cups and bearings from another BB.

My thinking is that if you're pedaling around a large obstacle and putting your saddle too low, you might as well use footpegs and not pedals. Pedal cyclists don't need e-motorcyclists complicating matters further for them.

 

[The Stig]

Yeah its 73mm wide(ID of threads is ~33mm). I'm not sure how to refer to that part of the frame in emails... Standard(IS?) 73mm wide bottom bracket shell?

Unless sickbikeparts has all necessary parts I'll probably go with the cartridge BB, he said it would fit with spacers. Plus, I don't know where to find wide ISIS cranks that could be shipped to me quick. I doubt cyclone ships stuff fast.

Which pedal cyclists don't need matters complicated?? :?


BTW I just discovered something else I urgently need to address today:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8781&p=757807#p757807

 

[jateureka]

You can pick up 130 - 132mm wide axle square taper BB's on ebay, like this one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bicycle-...238982?pt=AU_Cycling_New_&hash=item4d0bba46c6

Edit: that one is for 68mm shell.

 

[Drunkskunk]

What kind of frame is this going on? the Fat/snow/sand bike frames use a 100mm bottom bracket spacing, and have some fairly wide spindles. If you can change the bearing housing, a whole world of extra wide cranks opens up.

 

[jateureka]

The Phil Wood BB's have stainless steel spindle but are fairly $$ and you need to buy the tool also. Go up to 68 x 135mm wide , symetrical http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html

 

[Chalo]

The Phil Wood BB's have stainless steel spindle but are fairly $$ and you need to buy the tool also.

And you have to glue them in; their design is such that they can't be tightened correctly without damaging them. It's a retarded design and definitely not worth a price premium.

 

[The Stig]

Yeah no spendy phill woods products... Although funny thing is, one of their prototype v10 fatbikes inspired my build. I asked if I could by the prototype and they told me $25k for one and $35k for the other


@drunkskunk:
The bike is going to be a Downhill eFatbike. about 2kw in the rear and 500w in the front. 200mm travel front and rear. 26x4.8 tires.

The frame has a 73mm wide BB shell. I don't know how I would widen that, if thats what you mean.

 

[Kingfish]

The Phil Wood BB's have stainless steel spindle but are fairly $$ and you need to buy the tool also.

And you have to glue them in; their design is such that they can't be tightened correctly without damaging them. It's a retarded design and definitely not worth a price premium.

Glue them in? I never considered Locktite Blue as "glue", though technically you are correct. When you look at how we apply Locktite Threadlocker in any industry, is it safe to presume we are "gluing" our assemblies together, or are we assuaging vibration which can loosen uncaptured fasteners? I think the argument is a slim one - and I wouldn't leap to use it as a fulcrum to disparage quality workmanship and safety.

Conversely - How many people use Locktite on their disc rotors screws and hub nuts? How many use Red on manifolds and other critical automotive assemblies? You do realize that in doing so - you are "gluing".

FWIW - I've been running the same Phil Wood BB for all my 2WD miles and not had one single issue with it.

Opinions are your own, though it's more interesting if we stick to the facts please.
~KF
EDIT: Correcting Browser Autocorrection...

 

[Chalo]

Using Loctite as a threadlocker on a torqued fastener is a crutch, but it's legit-- because the fastener is still attached by means of loaded threads.

The Phil BB can't be tightened without damage, so the threadlocker in that case is the only thing holding it on. It's not a backup against loosening from overload or vibration; it's the sole method used to retain the BB.

That's a retarded design, and nobody else in the business is willing to use such hokey engineering to attach a BB. They (Phil) are using puckey to do the job that should be done by a lockring or a shoulder on the thread. There is no preload on the threads of the retaining rings.

 

[Kingfish]

I think that is a very thin line you are walking - really splitting the hairs and counting angels on the head of a pin.

The PW BB I installed is tightened down best I could having approximate torque without the benefit of a wrench - doing so that binding does not occur. Here's the PW BB installation notes. The very fine Left- and Right-hand machine threads of each side tends to keep the "pucks" from wandering during forward pedaling which is good design - and standard for all normal frames using BBs. The Locktite (which PW supplies) is applied to prevent wandering by virtue of backpedaling. Relatively speaking, the axle nut of the 9C hub drive at 14Mx2 is more course than the BB threads: The hub axle nuts see more force to wander out of position than the BB, and on cross-country I carry the wrench just in case cos it's happened. Can you argue that after 4k miles on my PW BB that I'm at risk with a retarded design that's never required maintenance?

There are better fish to fry. Let's go find and dine on them together

Here, take my lucky pole; it's a good one! KF

 

[LSBW]

What kind of frame is this going on? the Fat/snow/sand bike frames use a 100mm bottom bracket spacing, and have some fairly wide spindles. If you can change the bearing housing, a whole world of extra wide cranks opens up.

+1. This is what I just ordered for my next DIY frame:

http://www.bikesonline.com/truvativ-giga-pipe-team-dh-100-100e-x-148mm-isis-bottom-bracket.htm

http://www.bikesonline.com/truvativ-touro-crankset-170mm-crankarms-silver-36-50t.htm

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BB2010

 

[Drunkskunk]

Yeah no spendy phill woods products... Although funny thing is, one of their prototype v10 fatbikes inspired my build. I asked if I could by the prototype and they told me $25k for one and $35k for the other


@drunkskunk:
The bike is going to be a Downhill eFatbike. about 2kw in the rear and 500w in the front. 200mm travel front and rear. 26x4.8 tires.

The frame has a 73mm wide BB shell. I don't know how I would widen that, if thats what you mean.

What frame are you using? I'm interested to see this build. If you're going full suspension on a fat bike, that would make it probably #4 in the world.

 

[The Stig]

Bionicon ironwood. it has a two piece rear swing arm so I can why did it with new parts. something like number #8-10. as far as being a downhill bike and electric it should be number one in the world

 

[ABritInNY]

I have the same problem now on my EEB build, my 24s1p 30ah battery came in 2cm too wide from the manufacturer, and now my VP 100mm x 145mm (fatbike) sq taper BB is hitting the expanded battery compartment. I found an 83-110mm x 170mm BB from I think Greece? cyclone part, and it took weeks to arrive and cost near $50! now I see this topic had a link http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=214&osCsid=8cpeh9ln0c673j4043l4ero0s4 for the same one for half the price and tho I've yet to install and check the clearances, If it does need a longer spindle they do have a 206mm one, http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=114&osCsid=8cpeh9ln0c673j4043l4ero0s4 but it says it'll need to be changed from 68mm to 100mm shell which will prob cost a fair amt more.
Still I'm hoping 170mm spindle works for clearance, as I think 206mm will be very wide to pedal with. Is there any way to safely further spread a 2 pc shimano cranks, curved crankarms a lil if necessary?

 

[Chalo]

Is there any way to safely further spread a 2 pc shimano cranks, curved crankarms a lil if necessary?

No.

Surly Mr. Whirly is a modern splined big-spindle crank that has a number of different spindle widths and spider offsets available, including some intended for fatbikes.

 

[ABritInNY]

Is there any way to safely further spread a 2 pc shimano cranks, curved crankarms a lil if necessary?

No.

Surly Mr. Whirly is a modern splined big-spindle crank that has a number of different spindle widths and spider offsets available, including some intended for fatbikes.

That's a shame that would've been the easiest answer to my problem, switching my 104mm 42t chainring to a smaller one, perhaps 38t, will help with clearances too, but the longer width spindle would make all other tinkering unnecessary, that's why I bought the 170mm spindle, it was the longest I could find, aside from a custom made and very exp Phil woods one.
In prelim measuring it's hard to see if the extra 2.5 cm length will suffice, since it's an adjustable 3pc one with cups and bearings, good for any 83-110mm BB size, rather than a fixed 100mm, 1pc version w/a shell, like the VP 100 x 145mm one, currently installed on the bike that needs replacing. Because of these problems, I ride with my pedals both down acting as foot pegs, for electric drive only BUT I really want the bicycle part working PROPERLY! and not just for show, that's why the enlarged Q factor and chain-line issues really concern me, and I want to get it right. As I'm far from being a bike mechanic my progress is understandably slow.
Just wish there was an easy way to extend a spindles length by a couple CM each side, with the same kind of idea as pedal extenders? They could attach on the spindle instead of threading into the crank-arm, or perhaps even an old bang on cotter pin type thing could work? The current way seems a lot of hassle, I'm surprised no one has come up with an easy solution to this.

 

[cwah]

I have the same problem tooo!

 

[Marin]

On the frame I'm working on the bottom bracket, 148mm, clears the battery box fine but hits the mid drive motor, there is a 170mm in the mail that I hope will fix the problem without making another.