Kelly KBS Controller keep cutting out?

[Spacey]

So I bought one of those KBS 35Amp 48V Brushless mini controllers

http://kellycontroller.com/kbs4810135a24-48v-mini-brushless-dc-controller-p-504.html

Used it on the 9C 2807 which worked ok but seemed to cut off sometimes...then next morning didn't work at all. So today I put on a Mac 500W motor and the controller just keeps on cutting out when it hits a decent speed.

I have tried every parameter in the controller program but am getting the feeling that it is topping out its digital speed maybe? 40,000digital rpm? The controller is barely warm to the touch when used.

Damn annoying as this Mac motor just wants to fly at 48V. Any ideas?

Just figured out if I set it to 'Torque' mode it cuts out at a slower speed....if I set it to 'Speed' mode it cuts out at a higher speed, so maybe the Torque, Balanced and Speed modes are timing advances., but bike is pretty unusable with this controller lol....oh well only another $100 down the drain

 

[itchynackers]

Sounds like its trying to command too many amps from the battery. What battery are you using?

 

[Spacey]

16 cell 16ah Headway Pack, no BMS taht would restrict.

It is a weird one this....will do more investigation tomorrow.

 

[Spacey]

I have to say ...great support from Kelly on this. They emailed me back right away and sent the diagram for wiring the BMC/Mac Phase settings. Pretty sure that is how I wired it...will take apart again but have a funny feeling the controller has been cooking my 9C Hall sensors and now maybe the Mac motor sensors.

I could however be completely wrong.

 

[neptronix]

Are you running it at 35amps? or less?
I have heard that the kelly controllers are generally kind of overrated.

I don't think you are maxing out the RPM remember that the planetary gear ratio is 5:1, so if you've got 500 wheel RPM, the motor is spinning at roughly 2,500RPM..

Let me know how this goes.. i too am interested in the Kelly controller for a softer start as the infineon dumps out way too much power when you just barely tickle the throttle..

 

[Spacey]

I think that I just have the hall/phase wires wrong. I thought there was only 6 options as the Hall and Phase wires had to match I.e whatever you did to the Hall configuration you had to do to the phase configuration.

Looks like I now have to test all 36 different wiring configurations grrr!!!

Neptronix could you be a good sport and have a look at your Infineon controller to Mac motor hall/phase configuration...you could save me a lot of stress he he

 

[neptronix]

I think that I just have the hall/phase wires wrong. I thought there was only 6 options as the Hall and Phase wires had to match I.e whatever you did to the Hall configuration you had to do to the phase configuration.

Looks like I now have to test all 36 different wiring configurations grrr!!!

Neptronix could you be a good sport and have a look at your Infineon controller to Mac motor hall/phase configuration...you could save me a lot of stress he he

on my infineon:

blue to yellow
yellow to blue
green to green

( there is shrinkwrap over the wires however that match the colors up )

As for the hall colors, they all correspond to each other. I can't be much help there.

Kelly should have some kind of diagram for you. They do make special controllers for the BMC, after all.

 

[Spacey]

Well I have tried that configuration earlier and it was a big no go

Hall and Phase the same

B to B ........ No Go
G to Y
Y to G

B to B .........No Go
G to G
Y to Y

B to Y ..........No Go
G to B
Y to B

B to Y ..........No Go
G to G
Y to B

B to G .........No Go
G to Y
Y to B

B to G .........No Go
G to B
Y to Y

I did try this combination which had no torque but silly high speed but really rough at slow speed but smooth at high speed, totally useless though and made the controller hot so did not use.

Hall: Phase

Y to G Y to G
B to B B to Y
G to Y G to B

Looks like I will have to try all 36 combinations bwahahaha

 

[auraslip]

Hey spacey,
This thread might be relevant! http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18802&start=0#p274189

With a sensorless controller every phase wire combo is either forward or reverse. ie All 6 combos are correct, 3 are forward 3 are reverse. To change the direction you just swap 2 and only 2 (any 2) of the phase wires. Once that soaks in the light bulb will turn on.

Guess what? It works exactly the same for sensored motors, so you just need to find the right hall combo. The way to try wiring your hall sensored motor and keep your sanity and keep it simple is as follows:

1. Connect phase wires
2. Try the 6 combos of hall wires, keeping phase wires the same. There will be one correct
combination, and you just need to find out if it's forward or reverse. If it's forward you're
done. If it's reverse go to #3. If you don't get a good forward or reverse in these 6, you
have a problem elsewhere, not in the wiring combos.
3. To change direction, swap 2 and only 2 (any 2) phase wires, and try till you hit the right combo.

BUT this is a MAC motor, and IIRC it's similar to a BMC

I wish it was always that easy.
With neutrally timed motors, you may be correct.

With inherently advanced timing (BMC motors), it's another story and all 36 combinations may be necessary. I've gone through all 36 and only one works properly.

I didn't doubt what you said about BMC. That's probably why Kelly has special controllers for them.

Maybe the kelly controller is incompatible with this motor?

 

[Spacey]

Auraslip:

Good link to thread, I was thinking the same thing that 36 combinations is over the top....but I did try ALL of them on this Infineon controller.

3 of them move forward but are severely limited in it creates a lot of noise and has no torque whilst getting the controller hot. Out of all the 36 combinations not one of them was correct!

I'm going to try and resurrect another Infineon controller the same model as neptronix uses on his MAC 500W Geared motor...which is the motor I am using (trying to) now. Will also try the Kelly in all combinations as well....man time limits, stress, awkward customers and now this lol.

 

[Spacey]

Ok, so I hook it up to a standard ebike.ca 12 fet 40amp controller that I managed to resurect from the dead (broken on/off switch would you believe) and the Mac 500W motor works first time.

So I must have a dud 6 fet infineon controller....oh the dramas.

 

[neptronix]

...weird....

I'll tell you this about controllers VS the MAC / BMC motors..
They have an extremely low winding resistance. I have heard that this can screw with stall detection on controllers.

Just a theory.... maybe that's what's happening with your kelly..

 

[Spacey]

Yeah not got the best feeling about the Kelly, just figured out that the Infineon 12 Fet 40 amp was running on 72V before so I took out one of the resistors to put it back to 488V running. I might have taken out the wrong one and it thinks the battery is low?

The other 6Fet infineon I have no idea why that doesn;t work.

The Lyen 40amp Sensorless seems to have finally given me a glimpse of the torque but again cuts out ... need to do more testing but is late so will have to be for tomorrow.