New Bafang SWX02 48V500W with 30A KT Controller and LCD03 Max Speed Issue.

[JINEK77]

Hi everyone, hope im posting at the right place for advice.
Previous Setup
Batt: 48V29ish(AH) Sanyo
Controller: see attached (JH48V6G-36/48V 15/17A +/-1A)
Display: see attached (EN06-Ignore the E08. Hall sensor was dmg on the 350w therefore the 500w)
Motor: see attached (Bafang 48V350W)
Thumb Throttle Only. No PAS used.
Max speed result from the above setup=37-38km/hr on flat with fully charged battery on 16inch rim

Recently bought a new Bafang 48V500W hub motor to see if I can go faster than 37-38km/hr with all the above same setup. Nothing changes. Everything was bought from the same supplier which I have been supporting online. The only thing I did was switched the motor core from the 350W with the new 500W so that I don't have to build a new rear wheel since supplier said the hub housing and cover for both are the same.
Ok, when I try to run the 500W, everything went smoothly. No jerks or funny sound from the motor. Everything worked like how it should be, BUT the speed of this 500W didnt want to go pass 30-31km/hr. So I guess maybe I should try to get a new controller with higher amp output, so I did.

I bought a new 30A KT Controller with LCD03
Same thing, bike runs fine. With much better torque this time BUT the speed stays the same. it didnt want to go pass 30-31km/hr. I tried a few P1 setting like 46, 100, 102 (5.1 ratio x 20magnets) and also 146 and also with combination of P2-0 to 6 etc which the supplier advised. Nothing I do seems to make the bike go any faster. So the next alternative I did was put my wife's 14inch 36V350W motor on and try to see what happen. Surprisingly, the bike can go abt 34-35km/hr. Does hall phase angle got to do with anything here? Bafang motor mostly come in 120dg. Not sure what is the angle for KT controllers. The supplier sells 18A controller with 120dg phase angle stated on it for 500W motor but I think 18A is a little lacking, that is why i went ahead with 30A KT from another supplier instead.
Note: My wife's motor doesnt state the hall phase angle on it. Its a generic one that comes with her bike. Only says 36V48V.
Please let me know what other information you guys needed with this. Any input is much appreciated! Ride safe everyone!

 

[docw009]

Motors should have different windings when offered with 20" rims versus 29* rims, You want the higher speed windings for same wheel sizes. Did you buy the the motor with the 20" wheel already built? Then they should have put in a fast winding,.

For example, I have AK100H motors, one rated for 328 rpm and several for 260 rpm. I All have 20" wheels and used with KT controllers. The 328 rpm motor has a no load speed near 50 km/hour with a 25A controller, while the 260 rpm motors have a no load speed near 40 kph with a 20A controller. I do not think the amperage of the controller matters, as this is no load speed. WIth a load, the speeds are slower, but I don't know how slow,

 

[amberwolf]

Assuming:

-- the motor is physically capable of spinning fast enough (goes at least 20% faster when off the ground than you need it to take you when riding)
-- the controller can supply enough current to the motor to go that speed (it takes significantly more power to increase speed the same increment the faster you are going).
-- the battery is able to supply the current the new controller needs without sagging in voltage (which decreases the available max speed)
then the system will go the speed you want.


If the wheel does spin about 20% faster offground than when riding, but neither speed is as fast as you want to go, then the system is working as it should, but:
--the motor isn't wound for the speed you want
or
--the battery voltage isn't high enough to spin the motor as fast as you want


You can go to ebikes.ca and use their motor simulator to experiment and see how these interactions work, and to find out how much power it actually takes to go the speed you want under your specific riding conditions. .

 

[JINEK77]

Motors should have different windings when offered with 20" rims versus 29* rims, You want the higher speed windings for same wheel sizes. Did you buy the the motor with the 20" wheel already built? Then they should have put in a fast winding,.

For example, I have AK100H motors, one rated for 328 rpm and several for 260 rpm. I All have 20" wheels and used with KT controllers. The 328 rpm motor has a no load speed near 50 km/hour with a 25A controller, while the 260 rpm motors have a no load speed near 40 kph with a 20A controller. I do not think the amperage of the controller matters, as this is no load speed. WIth a load, the speeds are slower, but I don't know how slow,

Yeah I know about rpm on motor. For my case, every variables remain the same. KT 30A controller+LDC03, 48V29AH Batt
The only thing i swap out was the motor core. 350w was running 40-41km with load. 500w was running 30-31km with load. I have uploaded the spec from supplier. The 500w is suppose to run faster, not slower. That is the issue here. I too highly doubt the issue is with the controller though. I bought it motor only without wheel. I have both SWX02 48v350w and SWX02 48v500w but the 350w on longer work and i couldnt find replacement circuit board with hall sensor for it.

 

[JINEK77]

Assuming:

-- the motor is physically capable of spinning fast enough (goes at least 20% faster when off the ground than you need it to take you when riding)
-- the controller can supply enough current to the motor to go that speed (it takes significantly more power to increase speed the same increment the faster you are going).
-- the battery is able to supply the current the new controller needs without sagging in voltage (which decreases the available max speed)
then the system will go the speed you want.


If the wheel does spin about 20% faster offground than when riding, but neither speed is as fast as you want to go, then the system is working as it should, but:
--the motor isn't wound for the speed you want
or
--the battery voltage isn't high enough to spin the motor as fast as you want


You can go to ebikes.ca and use their motor simulator to experiment and see how these interactions work, and to find out how much power it actually takes to go the speed you want under your specific riding conditions. .

I understand your point. motor simulator being simulator, can only simulate this much compare to real world application. When I was using the 48V350W, the real world speed obtainable was 5-6km faster with load. 5-6km is quite significant for motor of this size. Im worried this 48V500W motor was wind for the intention of load carrying instead of high speed.

 

[AGS]

You have a reasonably fast wind motor SWX02 (10). Your biggest problem is that you are running it in a 16” wheel, so the gearing is limiting your top speed. You should have very good acceleration though.

I have an identical motor and controller. I’m using a 52 volt battery, but most importantly it is mounted in a much bigger wheel. The outside diameter of my tyre is 29” and my top speed is over 30mph.

I had to oil cool mine at that power level in a large diameter wheel, but I think you will be ok with no oil on your 16” wheel.

I also think the StokeM-02 is the closest motor in the Grin simulator. I think it was an SWX02 mounted as a mid drive several years ago.

P1 should be 100 and P2 should be 1.

 

[JINEK77]

You have a fast wind motor SWX02 (10), so that’s good. Your problem is that you are running it in a 16” wheel, so the gearing is limiting your top speed. You should have very good acceleration though.

I have an identical motor and controller. I’m using a 52 volt battery, but most importantly it is mounted in a much bigger wheel. The outside diameter of my tyre is 29” and my top speed is over 30mph.

I had to oil cool mine at that power level in a large diameter wheel, but I think you will be ok with no oil on your 16” wheel.

I also think the StokeM-02 is the closest motor in the Grin simulator. I think it was an SWX02 mounted as a mid drive several years ago.

P1 should be 100 and P2 should be 1.

Yeah I think I might have accidentally figured it out. As advertised, the 500w or most 500W on 20in wheel can go about 35-40ish km/hr. In terms of % decrease in overall speed between 20 and 16 inch wheel is about 1.25 or -25%. As advertised, you can achieve 38-42km/hr on 20inch wheel. -25% on 16inch would come to 33km/hr which is close to what I am getting. Thank you for everyone's input and time. I did get tons of acceleration which is awesome lol. I guess If i need to reach 40km/hr on my 16inch, I will need an even faster wind motor? Is there such motor for 48V battery?

 

[AGS]

I just looked at your photos and your original 350 watt motor is an 08 turn wind. So that should be faster than your new 10 turn wind 500 watt motor.

 

[JINEK77]

Oh really? Nice, i always thought 10T has higher speed and lesser torque. Thanks for your time in looking at this matter. Cheers mate!

 

[JINEK77]

Yeah I think I might have accidentally figured it out. As advertised, the 500w or most 500W on 20in wheel can go about 35-40ish km/hr. In terms of % decrease in overall speed between 20 and 16 inch wheel is about 1.25 or -25%. As advertised, you can achieve 38-42km/hr on 20inch wheel. -25% on 16inch would come to 33km/hr which is close to what I am getting. Thank you for everyone's input and time. I did get tons of acceleration which is awesome lol. I guess If i need to reach 40km/hr on my 16inch, I will need an even faster wind motor? Is there such motor for 48V battery?

Oil cool is possible with no leaking issue or shorting for hub motor such as this?

 

[AGS]

I managed oil cool my motor with minimal leakage. Others have had problems keeping the oil in and it ended up all over their brake disc. I used loctite flange sealant on the cover and axle. The only leakage I get is some weeping through the motor wiring that appears on the motor connector.

ATF won’t conduct electricity, so is safe to use.

According to the grin simulator, your motors won’t overheat with your small wheel size. I fitted a temperature sensor in my motor to keep an eye on things. Mine will definitely overheat without oil.

 

[JINEK77]

No oil seepage from geared side? You could try silicon it from the internal side of the hub where the wire pass through the axle. But then again, with total gaps sealed, would "pressure" force the oil to weep out from weak spot? Just a thought. Btw, Im trying to find a hub that can push pass 40km on my 16inch without upgrading the battery to 52-60. If i do, I think oil cool is a must like you.

 

[AGS]

The only way to increase your top speed is to increase voltage. Some people have pushed an SWX02 to 72 volts. But I don’t have the room on my frame for a 72 volt battery.