New York DMV Abandoned vehicle/vessel

marty

1 MW
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
2,810
Location
Buffalo, New York USA
Here are most wonderful instructions from Motor Vehicles on how to get a title to a abandoned car.
View attachment abandoned_vehicle_vessel.pdf

I have done this a few times before. At the end of the project I get a nice new title from Motor Vehicles. Then I sell the car. Now I am stuck. :? 2015 Kia Forte. Looks like a nice sporty 2 door car. Color is Black. Front is a little smashed up. Interior is dirty. Dirty like.... needs a 40 hour cleaning. Mechanically might have some issues but with out the key, kind of hard to guess if it runs? I can put it in neutral with a screw driver and push it. Steering wheel don't lock because car starts with a button. Car is parked outside at my shop.

History - My neighbor is a low budget car dealer. Think he buys cars for $100 and junks them for $200. This car was way too nice for scrap, so that is why I bought it.

Time line:
3/9/20 Purchase car from my neighbor. He said car was in a garage and owner left the country. That explains why both windows are about 1 inch down. Windows don't work because there is no key.

3/11/20 Xxxxxxx County Sheriff came to look at car and confirm that it was not stolen. Note the words not stolen on page 2 of Incident Report.

5/6/20 letter from Xxxxxxxxxx Town Attorney stating that the Town of Xxxxxxxxxx has no interest in this car.

8/12/20 Mail $10 and Motor Vehicles form MV15 [REQUEST FOR CERTIFIED DMV RECORDS]

Receive Abstract of Title Record. See HYUNDAI;LEASE as Current Owner.

9/12/20 Mail letter to Hyundai Motor Finance. Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested. Got proof of delivery but no reply to letter.
Copy text of letter:
September 12, 2020

CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

Hyundai Motor Finance
PO Box 20829
Fountain Valley, CA 92728

Re: 2015 KIA Forte, Vehicle Number Kxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hyundai People,
Writing to you because [Hyundai, Lease] is listed as current owner on New York
State abstract of title record, which I have enclosed. Vehicle is in my possession. I
am requesting that the proof of ownership of this car be properly transferred to
myself Martin Xxxxxxxx.

If your company or registrant wants this 2015 KIA Forte? Please contact me to
make arrangements to remove car from my storage location.

Please contact me with any questions regarding this matter.

Love,
Martin Xxxxxxxx

When I have done this in the past. The Certified Letter is returned to me because the owner is dead or moved away. I send this letter to Motor Vehicles as per their instructions:
If your letter to the previous owner is returned as undeliverable by the Post Office, DO NOT OPEN IT. You will need to send it to us,

10/19/20 Monday. Spent 1/2 a day on the phone with the Hyundai Company people. Finally got the Impound Team department. Talked to the impound Guy. This must be the guy who retrieves cars from impound lots. He ask what was the name of my shop? Told him that my shop really doesn't really have a name. I call it Marty's Play House. Impound Guy told me that car has a "Repo Order" That makes me a bit nervous because I have watched the car repossession show on TV. Don't think I would do well fighting with a large tow truck driver. Impound Guy asked how much I wanted for the car? I said $10,000 He said value of car is $6075 and most he can pay is $1675. Said that I would be happy with $1675. He said he would check with his boss and get back to me.

10/21/20 Today. No call back from Impound Guy. Called twice and left a message. I am thinking that the Hyundai Company has got more to worry about then a car with no key.

Any one got any ideas on how to get something in writing from the Hyundai Company saying they have no interest in this car? Wondering how to get Hyundai's legal department involved with this? Lawyers like to write letters. Hyundai and Kia are a bit related. They both in Korea.

If all else fails? Will remove the doors, engine, transmission, all heavy mechanical parts, and cut the body up with a reciprocating saw. Don't have a cutting torch. Could borrow one. Gas tank is not something I want to think about. Way too much work for a few hundred in scrap metal. Did call some junk yards. They won't buy a car with no title.

Anyone want to buy a 3000 pound push car? The horn works :)
 
Mechanic's lien?

Never did this before. I have been watching Judge Judy. I do own the tires on the car. Possession is nine-tenths of the law.

Story time...... Saw a really nice plastic pallet in the trash. Took it. Neighbor walking his dog yelled at me and said "I saw it first" and it was his pallet. Different neighbor witnessed the dispute. He said "Possession is nine-tenths of the law."
NEL_298526.jpg
 
So, you are currently in possession of a car valued at $6,000, you are aware of and have spoken to the registered owner, and intent to part it out? That is grand theft auto, hope you get a good cellmate.

You do not ask them for help, you offer to help them. "You have a car under your ownership, for which I have a storage/services invoice for (amazingly enough, just over the amount they were willing to pay for the car). The vehicle has been abandoned on my lot for over 90 days, and according to (name State) law (name statute number) I am entitled to claim the property in lieu of re-imbursement. If I receive no reply to this certified letter within (legally stipulated time period) I shall claim the property as payment for services rendered.

That should do it, you need to research the specific language in your local statute and quote it. You may want to make the amount owed slightly less than the $1600 stated maximum they would pay in order to give them a profit for taking action. If you tell them you want $6000 for a car they value at $1600 then there is no reason for them to take any action, there is no profit for them.

Asking for more you will need a court ruling to obtain a title, ask for less and they may just sign the title over to you, or just cut you a check.
 
AngryBob said:
The vehicle has been abandoned on my lot for over 90 days, and according to (name State) law (name statute number) I am entitled to claim the property in lieu of re-imbursement.
Wonder if there is such a law? So now you want me to go to the law library and look for laws? Had a lawyer. Every time I would ask him a question? He would tell me to go to the law library. We got Charles B. Sears Law Library - University at Buffalo Libraries
https://law.lib.buffalo.edu/
I would also go to another law library downtown. Librarians are very helpful.

Had a similar idea? With Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested, proof of delivery, and all that USPS stuff, there is no proof of what is in the envelope. Why not hire a Process Server? Here in NY anybody can be a Process Server. When I need to serve somebody I can hire anyone except myself. I usually use my wife. She works for kisses. Real Process Servers charge about $75.

See that some states require a license to be a Process Server.
Process server license requirements by state
https://www.serve-now.com/articles/135/process-server-license

Hire a Process Server in the Fountain Valley, CA 92728 area. Have Him/Her hand deliver a letter to ? Hold on. How do you hand deliver a letter to a PO Box? Answer you don't.

Next project:
How to Serve an Individual With a Post Office Box
https://www.serve-now.com/articles/2390/how-to-serve-an-individual-with-a-post-office-box

OK.. if I ever figure out where this Hyundai Motor Finance Company is. Could hire a Process Server to hand deliver a letter that says something like.

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE. [Please take notice is how all these letters start] Due to your failure to reply to my CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED letter dated September 12, 2020, copy of which is attached to, and made a part of this letter. If I do not receive a reply within 30 days. I will assume that your company has no interest in 2015 KIA Forte, Vehicle Number Kxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which is in my possession, and I will continue my efforts to obtain a title with New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. Finders keepers losers weepers. :) [Or something like that]

After the Process Server delivers the letter He/She mails me a Affidavit of Service stating that they delivered my letter.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/understanding-your-affidavit-of-service
Affidavit of Service Form

Typically prepared by the process server, an affidavit of service form is often an official court form that can be obtained from the court clerk or various online sources. The document usually includes the following information:

The name of the person served
The date, time, and place the person was served
The manner in which the person was served
A description of the document or documents served
The name and signature of the process server

Anyone in the Fountain Valley, CA 92728 area want to make $75?
 
Almost every US jurisdiction has a similar 90-day, abandoned property law. Go to your local Courthouse, Clerk of Courts office, BE NICE, BE FRIENDLY, BE POLITE, and they will direct you to a terminal where you can read and print out, for a moderate printing fee, usually $1 per page, the entire law. Also relevant forms and procedures, including how to fill out the form.

The tradesman's lien is ONLY available to the tradesman. This CANNOT be transferred in most any jurisdiction. The tradesman can designate another to act in his behalf, but any monies paid or title transferred must go to him. Prior arrangements can be made for subsequent deals. Suggest you get this in writing, as when you are done the car increases greatly in value.

Do NOT repeat NOT mention any transfer of ownership to you by the tradesman, prior to obtaining title. This would be an illegal transaction, he currently has no clear title.

There will be specific language on how to notify the current owner. Process server not relevant. May need to post an ad in the local newspaper. Whatever the law stipulates, that is what you must do. It is usually a matter of making a reasonable, verifiable effort as opposed to actually establishing communication.

The language of the statute is not exactly clear, easy English, but it is not Latin. If you get it and can't figure it out, post it here and I will decipher it for you. Make sure it is for the jurisdiction where the tradesman's lot where the car was parked it located.
 
Take a look at the PDF file posted in the first post of this topic.
abandoned_vehicle_vessel.pdf
In the past I remember posting an ad in the local newspaper. Not seeing that in the NYS Abandoned vehicle/vessel instructions.

Thanks for the advise of not buying cars with no title. Will change story as to why car is at my shop. Due to issues with the tires. Need air in the 4 tires so car can be pushed. I do own the air in the tires. Finding a key for the wheel locks was a project.
20200309_164434_1000w.jpg
Here https://www.hmfusa.com/contact-us I see TX and CA addresses. Going to forget about the letter I sent to the CA address. Will send the same (Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested) letter to the GA address listed on Abstract of Title Record.

Here are words on the Abstract of Title Record.
HYUNDAI;LEASE
TITLING;TRUST

Will address letter like this:
Hyundai Lease
Attn. Titling Trust Department
GA address......

Hopefully the letter will get to the big room full of file cabinets in Georgia, where they keep the titles for all the leased cars.
 
marty said:
markz said:
break them off the stud.
Are you thinking to hit the wheel lock with a Engineer's Hammer or some hammer like that? Hard smack and ya think the stud will crack because it is hardened metal? Remind me to NEVER ask you to remove a wheel from one of my cars.

Sometimes this is not possible, in the case you need to save something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6ozmQ2OqtQ&pbjreload=101

Otherwise, when I run across a wheel lock on a car in a junk yard to get at a shock, calipers, rotors then I take a piece of pipe with a nice snug fit over the wheel lock and it snaps off real easy, takes seconds.

Of course others have more time to deal with the problem, take a grinder to it for socket fitment, or grab a welder, or order something online and wait.
 
Don't know if you are still looking at this but, coupla things.

The letter you got from the police saying it is not stolen. Good, but NOT what the law specifies, "have no interest". That is a very different thing, and specific wording is important. Just off the top of my head, "interest" would include things like unpaid parking tickets, which with late charges and fines can mushroom dramatically. $1500 for a $2 dollar ticket is quite possible, I have seen it done. Solved that problem for less than $100, with the correct form, see below.

Now, on the letter to the company. Law states what to do if the letter is returned undeliverable, presumably also if you get some sort of abandonment statement in writing. However, nothing on if the letter is accepted with no reply. Gonna go back to my favorite source of legal information, the clerk of courts office. ALL paperwork goes through here, ALL forms come from here, they can't give legal advice, but they CAN, and WILL, tell you what forms you need for damn near any situation and how to fill them out and where to send them. Also note that M-37 form mentioned. Your situation is not new, it has happened before, and there is a form for that. Show them you have Correctly performed all required steps, including the new, corrected letter from the police, bring all documents, and request their expertise on getting the correct form which they can supply. Mention you can't afford a lawyer, in general lawyers treat the clerks like crap and they do not like their uppity behinds. They also deal with obnoxious aholes all day long and being nice, polite, appreciative, and friendly will go a LOOONG way with them.

i would be leary of scrapping it out as you have identified yourself and business location with specific details about the car to the registered owner, this could get very problematic.

Now, if you were to ask the city to haul it to the impound lot, where they charge $50/day or more, plus towing, and inform the company this will be done within a specified time frame, and the city will contact them for payment of storage fees, you may get some sort of positive response from the company.

It is all about LEVERAGE. Right now you are storing it for free.
 
The vehicle would just go to auction, in which you can bid on it and win the auction if the bid is right.

Edit - Actually now with covid, who knows if auctions are operating or not. Not all can easily switch to online, and if they do they still need the auction lot open for people to look at the vehicles.


AngryBob said:
Now, if you were to ask the city to haul it to the impound lot, where they charge $50/day or more, plus towing, and inform the company this will be done within a specified time frame, and the city will contact them for payment of storage fees, you may get some sort of positive response from the company.

It is all about LEVERAGE. Right now you are storing it for free.
 
AngryBob said:
The letter you got from the police saying it is not stolen. Good, but NOT what the law specifies, "have no interest". That is a very different thing, and specific wording is important. Just off the top of my head, "interest" would include things like unpaid parking tickets, which with late charges and fines can mushroom dramatically. $1500 for a $2 dollar ticket is quite possible, I have seen it done. Solved that problem for less than $100, with the correct form, see below.

marty said:
3/11/20 Xxxxxxx County Sheriff came to look at car and confirm that it was not stolen. Note the words not stolen on page 2 of Incident Report.

5/6/20 letter from Xxxxxxxxxx Town Attorney stating that the Town of Xxxxxxxxxx has no interest in this car.

Town has no police. Just a Constable who does not return phone calls or answer emails. Might be a virus thing? County Sheriff no write letters. I asked. That is why I got a letter of no interest from the Town Attorney.
 
Sorry Marty, I missed that detail about the Town Attorney.

I do not put my location in my profile due to specific security concerns on this website, regarding a matter which you are aware of.

I live quite some distance away, my son would actually be very interested if nearby.

As for the city selling the car at auction, they have no rights that you do not possess, and would have to obtain a title. What they do have, is somebody who knows what form to file.

My suggestion was to inform the leasing company that they could be looking at significant charges, from a government entity with access to forms and an attorney on staff, in order to motivate them to take action. At this point they do not really care, and writing the car off as a loss is likely more profitable than reclaiming it for a small amount of cash, or essentially giving it away. You want to show them it would not be.
 
Update:

9/23/21 Mail letter to Hyundai. Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested. Got proof of delivery but no reply to letter.
Copy text of letter:
September 23, 2021


CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

HYUNDAI / LEASE
TITLING; TRUST
PO BOX 105299
ATLANTA GA 30348

Re: 2015 KIA Forte, Vehicle Number Kxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Hyundai People,

Writing to you because [Hyundai, Lease] is listed as current owner on New York State abstract of title record, which I have enclosed. Vehicle is in my possession. I am requesting that the proof of ownership of this car be properly transferred to myself Martin Xxxxxxxx.

If your company or registrant wants this 2015 KIA Forte? Please contact me to make arrangements to remove car from my storage location.

Please contact me with any questions regarding this matter.


Love,
Martin Xxxxxxxx

The other letter I sent in 2020 was to the wrong address. Correct address is as above. That's the address on the Abstract of Title Record.

Think that the Hyundai company has enough problems and this car would just add to them. Thinking I could mail them a 100 letters and they would not reply.
 
Now I am thinking if I hire a process server in the ATLANTA GA area to hand deliver a letter to the Hyundai company, I would have proof that I notified them of my intent to cut their car in small pieces and sell the metal for scrap. Or get the Title from Motor Vehicles.

Process server is just a guy who hand delivers a letter for $75 or so.

Problem is that a process server can not serve a PO Box.

Find this form:
Change of Address or Boxholder Request Format — Process Servers
https://about.usps.com/who/legal/foia/documents/coa-or-boxholder-form.pdf

Changed the form around a little with a word program. On 12/21/21 mailed it to:

POSTMASTER
ATLANTA GA 30348

Got no reply :(

Now I am wondering where is the Postmaster? Think each city has a Postmaster?

Where is the Postmaster for ATLANTA GA 30348? Think this might be a simple question for any post office in the Atlanta Georgia area. I tried calling a few of them and the phone just rings.
 
Idea?

Forget the Hyundai, Atlanta Georgia, clowns. Lets try the internet?

Hyundai Motor America
10550 Talbert Ave
Fountain Valley, CA 92708

How to get something in writing from Hyundai, stating that they have no interest in my car?
 
OK another fun hour on the phone.

Hyundai Recovery Department
855-869-4477

At this point they think I am a impound yard. I explain I am not. Just a guy with a shop and no sign. Girl said someone will get back to me. They said the same thing way back when, before the virus.

Happy to announce that Covid is no more :)

Now what to charge for storage? Give me a $1000 or $2000 and I be a happy camper.
 
4/21/22 Girl from Kia Motor Finance called and ask how much I wanted for the car. I said $1675, same as Hyundai said they would give me before the virus. She said a tow truck would be calling me in a few hours. This girl sounded real. She gave me her extension number and name.

Hired neighbor to help me push the car into my shop to prevent some sneaky tow truck operator from taking car in the dark. Yea brakes are stuck from the car sitting 2 years outside.

Got a old one of these. Think it's 8 feet long.
johnson-bar.jpg

Most wonderful tool to get the stuck wheels turning.

No tow truck call :(

4/26/22 Call https://www.kiafinance.com/ Endless pressing buttons. I have no account number. Computer asks for 5 digit extension number. Kia Motor Finance Girl gave me a 4 digit extension number. Would someone please tell me what number to add to my 4 digits! Finally get Kia Motor Finance Girl I spoke to on 4/21/22. She's very polite and business like then she hangs up in the middle of a sentence. COME ON YO FROCKEN GIRL. THAT'S NO WAY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS. Yes I hate girls, but that's another issue.

At the moment the phone hung up. I QUIT. I give up. I don't want this car any more. Easiest thing to do at this point is to call the police and ask them to tow the abandoned car away. That would be too easy.

4/30/22 Pay flat bed guy $180 to move car 20 miles to friends shop. Flat Bed Guy has great knowledge of impound lots, mechanic liens, and getting the title to abandoned cars. He said he has a girl who does the paper work for him. He offered to give me her phone number.

He explain how Paper Work Girl gets the title. Do mechanic lien, Somehow buy the car from your self at a auction. Send papers to motor vehicles and get the title.

What I would do? Play lawyer and harass HYUNDAI / LEASE people till they write me a letter saying they have no interest in this car.

Another issue with this wonderful little 2 door sporty car. ~~~~Turbocharger~~~~ Mice or some type of rodent made a funny looking fluffy ball of white stuffing they pulled out of something some where in the car. Picture a fluff ball the size of a foot ball in the center of the trunk.

Cat Boy emailed pictures of the car in it's new home.

Cat Boy you should fold the back seat down so the cats can go in the trunk and look for mice.
 

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