New 80 volt push mowers

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Metallover   10 kW

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Metallover » Sep 10 2016 1:13pm

EDIT - Warren, didn't see you already posted these links. Thanks! Great stuff!

That video was actually really helpful. $45 for the motor!?

According the the manual here: http://www.greenworkstools.com/uploads/ ... _final.pdf

The part number for the motor is: 361011179

And it is available for $45 here: http://www.ordertree.com/greenworks/sun-361011179/

Additionally, the "PCB Board" (P/N 362011179) is only $12.50!! - http://www.ordertree.com/greenworks/sun-362011505b/

I ordered:

motor - $45
PCB Board - $12.50
Motor base - $5
Fan - $5
Switch box - $10
21" Blade - $15
Bolt to hold the blade on - $3
shipping was $12

Total was $107.50. Four of those items were on backorder. We'll see how long it takes to get in.

My plan is to bolt it all onto an old push mower deck and use some old LiPo batteries for power.

We'll see if there are any "gotchas" with their power system, or if I can just put 80V to the controller and go. If worse comes to worse, it looks like I could probably use my old Infineon controller from my first ebike.

I'm pretty excited! We'll see how long things are on backorder. This may be a winter project.

Also, maybe the parts are available even cheaper if we can find links directly to the manufacturer... But Greenworks has them pretty darn cheap already!
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Warren » Sep 10 2016 5:39pm

metalover,

Neat idea. You are clearly more ambitious than me. I will be fascinated to see if you or veloman can get this to run from a battery pack with just battery positive and negative connected. The battery pack has four female contacts, all are labeled. You can see where they have been chopped off in this photo.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q212 ... td8stn.jpg

The charger uses the two inner contacts for something. If you put a VOM on the outer plus and minus male contacts on the charger, you get a 2.5 volt reading, and the charger fan does not start. The mower only has three male contacts, the outer plus, and minus, and the one marked COM. You read full pack voltage, with a VOM on the outer two contacts of the pack. I get no readings with any other combination. Hope this helps.

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Sep 10 2016 10:34pm

Yes, I took mine apart tonight. Had to remove the 4 bolts holding the motor assembly to the deck.
Yellow wire is COM. I have a feeling I'll need to get a battery to parallel with mine. Tomorrow I can try and see if it starts with just battery positive and neg connected.

Metallover - I may do the same as you if this works out and I like the performance. Make a 40" walk behind. It looks like you ordered all the necessary parts.

I'm a bit disappointed that the fan doesn't hold the blade perfectly level. The fan is the fail point if you hit something hard. Should preserve the motor shaft. Decent design.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Sep 10 2016 11:14pm

I just tested with my 24s lifepo4 battery hooked up to pos and negative. Starts up but shuts down and beeps. So you need to figure out what that com wire is sending. I'm thinking I can use the stock battery for the com signal and only hook up my battery. I'm going to by the trimmer package with 2ah batt and charger. My current black n Decker 36v trimmer pisses me off with the auto feed which doesn't work reliably. And it's got less power than a month ago.. 120 lawns in the heat is killing it.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Warren » Sep 11 2016 9:22am

veloman,

I recall reading somebody's review saying you have to be careful not to tighten the blade nut too much, or it will warp the fan.

Our Greenworks string trimmer works well now. The string would hang up, until I figured out that you have to make sure that string for each side gets wrapped around it's own spool, like this.

http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/out ... c-57/#main

Winding the string on, using their instructions, both string sides would end up on one spool.

You might want to consider the Kobalt version, which is a bit different, but uses the same battery.

http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/out ... iew/16939/

Having the battery come in from the back would allow using the 4 amp battery, without throwing off the side-to-side balance. We used the 4 amp from our mower. I had to modify the strap attachment point to get it to hang level with the heavier battery sticking out the side, and if you lift it by the handholds, it is still out of balance.

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Metallover   10 kW

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Metallover » Sep 11 2016 12:56pm

veloman wrote:Yes, I took mine apart tonight. Had to remove the 4 bolts holding the motor assembly to the deck.
Yellow wire is COM. I have a feeling I'll need to get a battery to parallel with mine. Tomorrow I can try and see if it starts with just battery positive and neg connected.

Metallover - I may do the same as you if this works out and I like the performance. Make a 40" walk behind. It looks like you ordered all the necessary parts.

I'm a bit disappointed that the fan doesn't hold the blade perfectly level. The fan is the fail point if you hit something hard. Should preserve the motor shaft. Decent design.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking this!!! :) Put 2-3 systems together, mower the lawn in half the time!

A Greenworks battery in parallel wouldn't be the end of the world, since the batteries are pretty nice themselves. As others have said, some people use the batteries on ebikes.

The four pins..
Positive and negative are two.
The third is probably a thermistor. It could be the one that's only used for the charger.
The fourth could be some kind of low voltage cutoff or battery status pin. Hopefully something simple like a digital or analog input? Worst case it could be some kind of Serial (Single way?) (RS-232 or TTL).
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by dirkdiggler » Sep 12 2016 8:31pm

That motor is only $55 shipped! Would be nice to figure out the kv and see if there aren't some other uses for this. Does the motor wiring just have 3 phase wire and hall sensors?

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Sep 13 2016 2:12pm

I believe it's designed for a max of 2800rpm with 80volts. It may be useful for a <1000w mid drive. It's not that big, so I wouldn't expect a lot of power from it.
It has the 3 phase wires and a hall sensor set of wires.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by dirkdiggler » Sep 17 2016 12:32am

So you think 35 kv and max 15 amp? How small is it? Looks to me like a 80/100 from the pics. Would be fun if the controller did more than on/off for 12$. The motor might be good for kids toys as it looks well built and has super low kv.

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Sep 17 2016 2:18pm

I would guess it is 5-6lbs. The controller is what makes the mower so efficient. It senses thicker grass and ups the rpms/amps.

The 120v motor with brushes is 12lbs and pulls over 4kw on startup. I bought two and if I don't use both for mowing, I may put it on a bike. $31 for 4kw peak? I know everyone hates brushed motors but they are cheap, simple and strong.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Oct 04 2016 6:13pm

Heads up, Amazon has the blower for $73 now. I ordered one.

I just figured out how to fool the mower controller without draining the stock battery.
Connect your 20s battery to pos(left) and neg(right) when looking into battery compartment of mower. Connect communication tab of stock battery to middle tab in mower. Connect neg of stock battery to negative of your 20s battery.
This is almost like paralleling the batteries but not, since you don't connect pos battery leads. You could if both were the same exact voltage, but not necessary.

I don't plan on using the 2ah stock battery for mowing, just trimming and blowing.

This is not as simple, but a hell of a lot better than using a different, inefficiently applied controller.

Also, the mower draws 2.4amps when not cutting. I'm not sure how Warren averaged 174watts while mowing.
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Metallover   10 kW

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Metallover » Oct 04 2016 6:25pm

Awesome info!! Thanks for sharing! Did you take a measurement of the voltage between the neg and com pins when you were running?

Half of my greenworks mower parts order was out of stock. I emailed ordertree after a couple weeks and they said it should be back in stock 10/23/16. I guess I'll wait a while.

Also, have you guys heard of camelcamelcamel.com? It is an amazon price tracking site. If you make an account, you can set up price alerts for anything.

Here is what they have on the 80v blower w/o battery

link - http://camelcamelcamel.com/GreenWorks-P ... ext=browse
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Oct 05 2016 12:59am

Yeh I set up alerts on camel after you posted about it here. I would like to find a dirt cheap battery that is bad and make a custom pack out of it. Since this 80v system is so new, not much available. I have alerts set on eBay too. I bought the attachment capable trimmer on eBay from CPO outlets. I'm a little disappointed the trimmer is so much heavier than my 36v black n Decker and the transmission head gets warm fast. Still have yet to really use it more than a few minutes. It does seem to have good power. The b&d can't be beat for light trimming around obstacles quickly, it's just so lightweight.

I will check the voltage between the comm and neg pins tomorrow. When not running it showed 75v. My battery was about 82v. Tomorrow I have two lawns to mow, this will be the real test. I'm anxious to see what power it pulls in heavy grass.

The 36v b&d sweeper is also really lightweight but won't cut it for leaves in grass. I hope the greenworks 80 blower is indeed a gas replacement.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Oct 05 2016 6:35pm

Well the mower did good. I had some thick grass and it never seemed to bog down. It appears to have two levels of power, but I could definitely be wrong. The first level is the standard low power for easy grass. Then it kicks up for thicker grass. I saw as high as 22amps draw on my battery. I used 5ah in 53 minutes. The front lawn was smaller and not nearly as thick as the back.

The attachment capable model trimmer has good power, but I can't get over the weight and length. It just takes significantly more time to maneuver. I'm also not use to the counter clockwise string direction, so I needed to reverse my trimming route. Edging was tedious. It clearly spins slower than my B&D and because of that, it gets caught on the grass more, and the head gets pushed around a lot more. It's harder to do a straight edge. The bump feed worked well. The noise was enough that I'm thinking of using ear protection (which I haven't with all my other equipment). The gear transmission heads makes a lot of noise. The 2ah battery seemed to last a good while thankfully. But ultimately, I am keeping my 36v B&D for most trimming jobs. The Greenworks 80v trimmer is best for those thick overgrown weeds/grass that needs big power. For lawns which I regularly service, it is definitely faster and less physically tiring to use the B&D. Maybe I just need more time on the Greenworks. I've gotten really good with the B&D, I just wish the motor could handle more without burning out.

After I got home, the 80v blower was on my doorstep. This thing looks like a bazooka, it's funny. Weight is okay, and blowers don't need the agility of a trimmer. I tested it in my backyard. The 3 power levels are nice. I can see not needing the high setting unless I'm blowing leaves on grass. It certainly has some thrust and pushes back. I think this tool will definitely reduce my work time on some jobs that require blowing a lot of clippings or leaf work. Noise is stated at 60db and I don't feel the need for hearing protection unless maybe on a big job with all high speed setting use.

Day 2 update: the bazooka blower is awesome. Nice variable speed trigger, and I usually leave it on setting two. It probably already saved me 5 minutes today. Blew down a driveway with acorns and debris. Blew heavy grass clippings up and out of the street, over the curb and back on the lawn. This thing just makes me laugh every time I pick it up. Only used 1/3 of the battery with 3 lawns.

The mower continues to eat through 18" tall weeds/grass with no complaints. Granted, when the weeds get that tall, it's not super thick, but still takes some power. I'm pretty sure you could cut lawns all day with two 10ah batteries. I need more customers. It stayed in low speed mode on one of my regular yards with 6" grass.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Oct 19 2016 1:13pm

The price on the 80v Greenworks string trimmer (motor is in the head, not attachment capable) with 2ah battery and charger has dropped to $154. I decided to buy it since I think it will be quieter, less vibration and lighter than the attachment capable one I recently bought. And i wanted another battery. Considering the battery sells for $110 alone, this was a really good deal.
Thanks to camelcamelcamel.com for the alert.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing ... dition=all

BTW, the mower has been kicking a$$. I ripped through 2 feet of thick grass and weeds yesterday with it. Before I started that overgrown area I was worried and mad I didn't bring my hand brush cutter. But the mower went to lunch very nicely on it. Barely slowed down only in the thickest area. It was way overgrown like that because the last lawn crews left it. Customer was very concerned that it would be cut this time.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Metallover » Oct 19 2016 4:43pm

I got a notification that my mower parts have shipped from OrderTree. I will probably end up getting a battery some day. I'll post a bunch of pics when I dig into the project. :)
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by veloman » Oct 21 2016 10:47am

Yeah I got my motor and parts the other day. The motor looks really good for a mid-drive setup and is only 5lbs. The only question is which hall wires are which? Will have to open up the motor to find out, and I'm a little hesitant to that right now.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by gogo » Oct 21 2016 12:35pm

veloman wrote:Yeah I got my motor and parts the other day. The motor looks really good for a mid-drive setup and is only 5lbs. The only question is which hall wires are which? Will have to open up the motor to find out, and I'm a little hesitant to that right now.
You should be able to use the flow-chart for 3-phase combos while using a controller at low power?

What's the shaft diameter and flat length? The internal threads on the shaft is a nice feature.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by MrDude_1 » Oct 21 2016 1:03pm

I wonder if that shaft means that "standard" briggs-straton motor accessories would fit on it.

Really that looks ideal for a kids gokart too.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Warren » Oct 21 2016 1:26pm

It would definitely need a two stage reduction.

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by xtian999 » Oct 21 2016 5:32pm

Wondering how easy it would be to drive a scooter sprocket with that 80v chainsaw?
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by dustNbone » Oct 21 2016 8:15pm

It would be interesting to tach the blade, mowers usually spin pretty fast. A small Briggs power peaks a bit over 3,000 RPM if I remember right.

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by MrDude_1 » Oct 21 2016 9:22pm

dustNbone wrote:It would be interesting to tach the blade, mowers usually spin pretty fast. A small Briggs power peaks a bit over 3,000 RPM if I remember right.
you're correct. the peak of the 4 to 6hp briggs motors is right around 3200 or so... and most accessories take this into account.
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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Warren » Oct 22 2016 9:04am

From a lawnmower group site.

"The maximum blade tip speed for homeowner mowers is 19,000 FPM. This has been the OPEI standards for many years. When these products came under the stds of the CPSC a few yrs ago, they used the same std. I remember when the engine rpms were lowered to comply with this std. Quality of cut has suffered since."

For the 20" diameter blade on the Greenworks, that comes to 3629 rpm. I suspect it is somewhat less.

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Re: New 80 volt push mowers

Post by Metallover » Oct 23 2016 9:00pm

I have pictures of all my parts. Installing this on a gas mower deck 'should' be a piece of cake. The holes from the gas engine might even line up with the electric motor mount. The only thing I'm missing is the connector between the ESC and the battery. I'll need to figure out how to mount the switch too. I ended up ordering one of the 80V trimmers with the 2Ah battery.

The ESC has 4 plugs: 5 wires to the halls, 3 motor phases, 3 wires to the handlebar switch, and 3 wires to the battery. It looks like the controller uses 6 IRFB4115 FETs. There is a thermal pad between the FETs and the heatsink. There's a big relay mounted on the pcb, near where the battery connections come in. It has a temperature sensor in the middle of the FETs. The front of the board is potted in, but the back of the board is bare. I didn't take the board off the heat sink.

The 'fan' part is [probably] necessary to mount the Greenworks blade. The fan and the blade have what I assume to be proprietary grooves in them.

Post describing where and what parts I have - viewtopic.php?p=1221623#p1221623

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