Microwaving my mind

8 results for 'microwave' in topic titles. Interesting. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=microwave&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search


I Was reading for a few hours yesterday and pondering the differences for 'cooking' food with microwaves vs other normal means. Isn't it true that when broken down to their core elements, a simple fire heating metal which heats food, or a current thru an element which radiates heat to food, are no different than the 'electromagnetic' waves induced by a microwave? I'm talking in a thermodynamic sense, particularly for food.


I went looking to confirm/deny a claim that microwaves destroy food and are unhealthy for the user. I should have known there would be no easy and direct scientific answer. Instead just subjective back and forth. Sure there's some good points, but I'm still not convinced one way or another.

Honestly it starts to look like arguments against microwaves use poor reasoning?

As the name suggests, “microwave ovens” use microwaves. These microwaves, which are a form of electromagnetic field (EMF) generated by a magnetron, vibrate at a speed of 2.4 billion times per second. This causes the water molecules in the food to resonate at very high frequencies and generate heat.

Conventional heating of food is a different, much more gentler process altogether. Heat is transferred by convection from the outside to the inside.

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Anyone see the problems?
Anyone researched this themselves? I'm @ upwards of a dozen links of contradicting opinion. It seems ridiculous there are no conclusive simple repeatable experiments? No real definitive chemical/molecular scientific conclusions either?


I actually think this guy is on to something. :lol: He's rather satirical, kinda irreverant,
but if you really think about it. . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JauYH0omKIA
[youtube]JauYH0omKIA[/youtube]

https://www.google.com/#q=water+consciousness
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=water+consciousness
Also, I would suggest investigation into water consciousness, since water molecules are directly relevant to the subject, and consciousness is typically used to carry out any experimentation. . . .

https://www.google.com/#q=Dean+Radin
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dean+Radin
Further on human consciousness, I suggest Dr Dean Radin and similar.

The concept of QM will be helpful also. . . .
https://www.google.com/#q=quantum+mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=quantum+mechanics

Thanks!

Not really sure what you're asking...

This looks to me like an example of your reverse research. Starting with the conclusion that microwaves damage food and looking for evidence to support?

The magnet top gyroscope interaction is exactly was you would expect. While the flux lines are symmetrical on the spinning brass gyroscope mass (when it's in the center) it has no net change in flux on the disk as it spins so no eddy currents.

When it's off to the side, it's no longer a symmetrical field in the disk, it has flux lines cutting through it changing flux density through the disk as it spins so it rapidly eddy brakes it. That guy is kinda lacking some core EM basics to be confused by it.

With respect to food heating, it's a game of thermal kinetics. However you make the molecular vibration happen doesn't matter, just various degrees of uneven rates of vibration happen from microwaving food. If you don't burn your mouth when you eat it after microwaving you dodged the risk.

I've seen ants survive several minutes in there while cooking. Cockroaches, dunno. :?

The fingers said:

I've seen ants survive several minutes in there while cooking. Cockroaches, dunno. :?

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They turn into the cockroach that ate Cincinati.

[youtube]NtEpqlrwX5c[/youtube]

I think there is some evidence that the faster you cook food, the more the nutritional value is messed up. This may be more the high temp the food is cooked to, than the speed though. Steam a vegetable to crisp done, better than boiling it to mush. deep frying potaotes to a temp of 500 degrees is kind of harsh compare to baking at 350.

So easy to nuke food to death in one serving quantities. Or,, you can just stop doing that. Pay attention, nuke food one min, then wait two, then finish off with 30 seconds. Instead of bringing the ends of a burrito to 500 degrees, just to get the middle warm.

In larger size quantities, I often find the stove faster than a microwave, for something like 4 cups of liquid.

Thanks for the replies guys. Damn microwaves. There's so many articles with 'scientific' claims of how they harm food, but none ever laterally compare with other cooking forms at the same time / in the same way.

I came to the same conclusion, though I would honestly expect easy empirical evidence on how (if at all) effects from a magnetron's EM would differ in 'cooking' VS conventional methods. That lead to looking at claimed tests of 'boiled water in microwave kills plants', but those claims haven't been widely studied or repeated.

Not only that, when I came across 'water consciousness', it added the realization that perhaps even a double blind study into EM boiled water and plants may have other major variables. After ending on Dean Radin's studies It all just so quickly escalated to something deeply quantum, imo. . . At which point I resolved to the same simple but somewhat incomplete/unbacked conclusion you guys shared. Mind-successfully-microwaved

Also, LFP I agree with your explanation in the physical of that guys test with the huge magnet . . . but somehow I don't think that's what he was getting at. I've watched some others of his and he trends toward some interestingly deep thinking. Entertaining if nothing else, and he's obviously educated too which is good. More I learn the less I know :/

This:

nutspecial said:

At which point I resolved to the same simple but somewhat incomplete/unbacked conclusion you guys shared.

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Kudos! Incomplete ("I don't know yet") *is the only* actual conclusion that can be reached given the evidence provided.

As LFP pointed out, you're adding energy to increase the jiggle, no matter how you cook something. It's going to come down to how different compounds decay/interact with each other at specific temperatures and EM wavelengths.

On a lighter note, this:

dogman dan said:

bringing the ends of a burrito to 500 degrees, just to get the middle warm.

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...made me spit coffee at my monitor

That is exactly how people ruin the nutrition of their food in a microwave. By overheating the edges. You gotta cook, let it sit a min, then cook some more. Stir too if its a food that can stir.

This one reminds me of people against chemical fertilizers. Don't get me wrong, chemicals can seriously screw up the soil biology, but the plant itself simply does not care what the source of the nitrogen molecule was.

Like the microwave, you just have to avoid overcooking,,, nothing kills a plant like a good phosphorous burn on its roots. But put it on as weak as it is in natural fertilizers, and you don't do that. Nor do you kill off the soil biology.

Heated up some mashed potatoes and gravy leftovers in the microwave. After 2 minutes the butter melted and the gravy was boiling but the potatoes were still cold. Had to stir it up so it could be eaten warm throughout. :|
Of course my wife said she knew that baked potatoes take longer to cook than other food in the microwave, but mashed potatoes? I guess mashing doesn't have any effect on cooking times. :?

Cooking in and covering with glass plates/bowls etc seems to help, and finding the appropriate match of cook time and power level based on mass and water content. I specifically sourced an analog make, with mech dials for time and power level. Way easier/ time efficient and potentially more robust than digi.

I think 'mine' has been goin strong for about 15yrs. Dials for the win



There is the one major difference with microwaves vs conventional- they supposedly act only on water molecules. It's the way they're tuned to resonate particularly with such, that transforms the energy into heat. Cooking forms such as convection and fuller spectrum thermal radiation act on all the molecules indiscriminately afaik. . . .

Would still like to see some real definitive science on the differences. Especially including how intention plays roles with matter manipulation.

Water that kills a plant is easy to find. In fact, as a professional horticulturist, I'd say I killed more plants with water than any other thing.

dogman dan said:

Water that kills a plant is easy to find. In fact, as a professional horticulturist, I'd say I killed more plants with water than any other thing.

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Water that kills. There is indeed such a thing as 'Dead Water.' Perhaps you've heard of nitrogen fertilizer. From time to time there's the news stories of mass dieoffs of fish. It's common that this proves to be because of the nitrogen in the water runoff. The effect is the same as putting a salt water fish in fresh water, the fish drown.

A guy who lived next door to me said that the reason we have such lawn trouble is our local water isn't suited to growing grass. I didn't really understand his explanation of why plants but not grass could grow on it, had to do with the grass finding it mildly acidic, but he had a degree in agriculture.

Microwave ovens are good for making bike batteries:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=85023

When you heat food by any means, microwave, fire, solar, whatever, if the temperature of the food exceeds some value, components of it will break down or react to form new substances. Burning food until it's charred is known to create unhealthy compounds. Some nutrients like vitamins, enzymes, etc. will break down at relatively low temperatures.

Yup, this is the same conclusion I reached too! However, being this spectrum of EM is supposed to primarily affect only water molecules, there could be some interesting implications. None scientifically verified afaik, good or bad. There have been studies of the effects on food in general (incomplete afaik), but I'd like to see deeper and more fully conclusive tests on the more logical first subject, water alone.

It's only of interest, because I'm unsure of practical implications, but freezing tests are quite interesting. Water samples subjected to different effects supposedly are easily observed (normal microscope) to be variably changed when transformed to their solid form. . . . I would assume a flawed crystaline structure would potentially indicate molecular or even subatomic flaws? Too bad the subatomic enters into quantum physics and field theory. . .

Exposing water to a strong magnetic field is supposed to do magical things too. It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to test some of these ideas.