50KW controller with field weakening

Hi all!!!

I have now been on a few test runs of the Fazer build (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1553731#p1553731)

It is power limited by the controller (20kw), the motor can easily do 30 or even 40kw peak for brief periods. I am looking for a controller that can handle this (400amps at 100Vdc, max voltage 118V) and also supports "field weakening". At the moment, top speed is 65mph, would be good to push this past 70 to keep up with traffic on motorways.

The extra power would be nice as well. As its a hub motor, I can't really change the gearing, and there are only a few different tyre options that change the outside diameter for the better. I dont want to ruin the dynamics of the bike with too large a rear wheel

I have spend hours looking around for a BLDC motor controller, and all I have found is Sevcon (very hard to program and Gen4Size 6 doesn't have high enough voltage limit) and loads of others from controller manufactures that do not exist anymore, or no longer sell to the public.

Currently running Kelly KLS8080i 400A but I also have a KHB12101 1000A controller, but that would need a fair amount of work to fit, and is not a sine wave controller like the KLS, efficiency etc will suffer.

I have pinged an email across to The Axiom controller guys, as that may work.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Hi ,
i have heard of OEM for controllers known as Phaserunner , although non rated to what your application is , they may have a bigger unit which may suffice.

The Phaserunner is a compact state-of-the-art field oriented motor controller (FOC) from Grin Technologies based around the sophisticated control electronics from Accelerated Systems Inc. of Toronto. It is ideally suited for running brushless motors for electric vehicles in the 500-2000 watt power range, and once you have experienced the smooth response of a FOC with a torque throttle it's hard to go back to a the setup you had before. This controller was designed as a universal device that can fit on almost any bicycle frame and handle almost any motor system. You can power it from a 24V battery or a 72V battery, and run your phase current to peaks of over 90 amps, though the continuous current capability without additional heatsinking is typically 45-50A. The wiring is paired down to the bare basics for a nice clutter-free installation; including a throttle plug, a Cycle Analyst plug, cable to your motor, and a cable to your battery pack.

FEATURES
Remote on/off switch compatible
Direct plug for both V2 and V3 Cycle Analysts
Proportional regen available through throttle signal or stand alone wire
Works both Sensored and Sensorless, and even with very high eRPMs
Waterproof, 100% potted electronics
Fully programmable parameters (regen voltage, max phase and battery currents etc.)
Field Weakening allows you to run motors faster than normal back-emf limit
Higher motor efficiency at low speeds / high torques
Torque based throttle command (no twitchy throttle with powerful system)
Operating voltage range from 20V to 90V (21S Li-Ion, 24s LiFe)
Automatic thermal rollback to prevent controller overheating


just a thought

tony

Thanks Tony, I will ping them a message and see if they can do something out of the ordinary.

The KHB controller will require tank modifications, which I am reluctant to do if it doesn't give me more top speed

Though it's true the Sevcon isn't easy to program it does meet all your other requests.
It supports up to 28S though 116V which is why Zero charges their batteries to 4.15V a cell. At 28S you could get the 50kW you want with a Gen 4 Size 6.

Your other choice would be trying to find a Mobipus 96400 but the issue with them is that quite a few important parameters are hidden behind a time key pass code which needs to be paid for per hour.

If you decide to opt for a Sevcon I'm selling a brand new Size 6 with an IXXAT cable and DVT software.

Alexanderfoti said:

As its a hub motor, I can't really change the gearing, and there are only a few different tyre options that change the outside diameter for the better. I dont want to ruin the dynamics of the bike with too large a rear wheel

Click to expand...

If you can fit both a larger diameter front and rear wheel, the only effect on the behavior of your motorcycle will be for the better.

c70r said:

Though it's true the Sevcon isn't easy to program it does meet all your other requests.
It supports up to 28S though 116V which is why Zero charges their batteries to 4.15V a cell. At 28S you could get the 50kW you want with a Gen 4 Size 6.

Your other choice would be trying to find a Mobipus 96400 but the issue with them is that quite a few important parameters are hidden behind a time key pass code which needs to be paid for per hour.

If you decide to opt for a Sevcon I'm selling a brand new Size 6 with an IXXAT cable and DVT software.

Click to expand...

The problem is, that during regen, I allow cell voltages to go to 4.19 per cell.

At the moment I charge to 4.15v per cell with 28S (116.2).

I may be persuaded to use a sevcon as it seems like it would work. Could you give me assistance on programming?

If you're willing to DIY, and don't mind the size of the powerstage, you could use an EV controller's powerstage and the Lebowski brain board. It's been done by several people for various projects, and works fine, and is relatively easy to setup compared to something like a Sevcon. (and doesn't require expensive hardware and software to program it, either, just a serial connection and a terminal program--the software is all on the brain chip). The Lebowski code is even available if you're a programmer and wish to modify it.

While the EV powerstages are large (and heavy because of the heatsinks) they are well-designed.

I have a thread in progress for doing this with a Honda IMA inverter, but it isn't enough power for what you want. Threads on DIY Electric Car and Openinverter.org and elsewhere are for other EV controllers (Prius, Tesla, etc), and Arber333 has an Aptera/Volt project here on ES.

Alexanderfoti said:

c70r said:

Though it's true the Sevcon isn't easy to program it does meet all your other requests.
It supports up to 28S though 116V which is why Zero charges their batteries to 4.15V a cell. At 28S you could get the 50kW you want with a Gen 4 Size 6.

Your other choice would be trying to find a Mobipus 96400 but the issue with them is that quite a few important parameters are hidden behind a time key pass code which needs to be paid for per hour.

If you decide to opt for a Sevcon I'm selling a brand new Size 6 with an IXXAT cable and DVT software.

Click to expand...

The problem is, that during regen, I allow cell voltages to go to 4.19 per cell.

At the moment I charge to 4.15v per cell with 28S (116.2).

I may be persuaded to use a sevcon as it seems like it would work. Could you give me assistance on programming?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I have no experience with Sevcon and haven't redeemed the software to see how it is exactly, only went with Sevcon due to seeing so many successful motorcycle builds with them and speaking with their owners they were willing to share their dcf files to atleast have something to start with.

amberwolf said:

If you're willing to DIY, and don't mind the size of the powerstage, you could use an EV controller's powerstage and the Lebowski brain board. It's been done by several people for various projects, and works fine, and is relatively easy to setup compared to something like a Sevcon. (and doesn't require expensive hardware and software to program it, either, just a serial connection and a terminal program--the software is all on the brain chip). The Lebowski code is even available if you're a programmer and wish to modify it.

While the EV powerstages are large (and heavy because of the heatsinks) they are well-designed.

I have a thread in progress for doing this with a Honda IMA inverter, but it isn't enough power for what you want. Threads on DIY Electric Car and Openinverter.org and elsewhere are for other EV controllers (Prius, Tesla, etc), and Arber333 has an Aptera/Volt project here on ES.

Click to expand...

That is not a bad idea. However, its a steep learning curve for me. I have quite a bit of experience with electronics, but all quite basic. I have done some cursory research and it looks like fitting the whole power stage and brain board etc onto the bike will be quite difficult. I will give it some more thought though, thank you.

c70r said:

Unfortunately I have no experience with Sevcon and haven't redeemed the software to see how it is exactly, only went with Sevcon due to seeing so many successful motorcycle builds with them and speaking with their owners they were willing to share their dcf files to atleast have something to start with.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Its a good price for both the items, but I am in the middle of moving so cannot take a risk on something like that at the moment. Especially considering I have a Kelly KBL sitting around that will likely give me the power levels I want, but without field weakening (and cool throttle curves and other stuff the Sevcon gives).

I think the best way around getting a sevcon to work, is to install it, access it via the software, then employ a company just to program it and get the thing running properly. Once they have done the hard work, I can probably tweak the settings in the DCF that they have made to customise things.

And, if I say so myself, the Lebowski setup has good field weakening. :wink: