2012 Zero X with no battery

mcintyretj

100 W
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
140
Location
Seal Beach, California USA
Saw a street legal 2012 Zero X with no battery on Craig's List for $895 and thought it would make a good project. From what I read, the original battery was a 14s, 3 kw pack. Not sure this is correct. I hooked up one of my 15s batteries charged to 58 volts and all the 12v electronics (lights, display) seem to work just fine. The controller and motor look to be in good condition. I have seen some YouTube videos where the the original battery was replace and the BMS unit was bypassed so I know it can be done. Looking for more information and possibly a wire diagram for the 8 pin connector (to the BMS?). I have 4.2Kw of 15s batteries to do a test run but plan to build a 4.5 kw (14s?) battery. Here are some photos:

2012 Zero X.jpg

zero w 1.5 kw 15s battery.jpg

zero display on.jpg

zero controller and contactor.jpg

zero controller info.jpg

zero motor.jpg

120 amp connector.jpg

8 pin connector.jpg
 
Interfacing with that 8pin would require a bunch of work, as its meant to carry the coms data from the BMS to the vehicle controller computer.

I don't think its worth messing with if the battery you're going to power it with has its own BMS. That motor controller isn't hard to make run.
 
Thanks for the encouragement Luke. I was able to get the controller, motor, and throttle to work. I do not have garage so I work at the bottom of my condo stairs and push the bike out to a carport at night. Here is my first test without the throttle bypassed.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaXwgIack0g[/youtube]

There is a lot of information about the ALLTRAX AXE7245 controller on line. Just needed to connect the battery positive to the key switch (+57v), the throttle blue/white and white wires direct from the throttle cable to the 2 controller inputs. I used a small 24v battery to activate the relay (this used to turn on when I turned the key), but, I think I can just connect the battery negative to the right side of the relay. Here are the controller inputs and throttle wires.

controller inputs.jpg

throttle wires.jpg

throttle- only WhiteBlue and White wires connected.jpg


The relay below is rated for 200 amps and and a maximum of 30 volts to activate. I think there is a resistor that drops the voltage to allow the battery minus to be attached to the right side but am not sure.

200a relay 24v coil.jpg


Tomorrow I plan to bungee my 3, 15s batteries (4 KW total) and go for a test run.

4kw of 15s batteries.jpg
 
Nice score on the Zero with no Batt, every time I see them pop up online they are across the country from me!

Are those 15s batteries Kuberg Freerider batteries? Looks the shape lol

Sub'd
 
Today I loaded up the Zero with 3, 15s ebike batteries. This is about 4 KW of battery. My first run, I hit 45 mph on about 3/4 throttle. After that, I could only get the bike up to 35 mph. I figured that I had blown a fuse. I continued riding around the neighborhood for another mile at 25 mph. When I checked later, 2 of the three battery fuses had blown. I was still stoked with hitting 45 mph.

The battery box dimensions are 15"x 10"x 7" but it can be easily extended to 15"x 12"x 7 or even wider. My question is what voltage battery should I build? Should I stay with 14s or go 15s, 16s or 18s? I would like more speed (for PCH) but the Zero was put together by some people that know what they are doing, and, I do not. I plan to visit the scrap metal store and get some aluminum and start working on a battery box. I am thinking 540 Samsung 30q cells (15s x 36p). I am open to ideas for a battery for this bike.

Zero with batteries bungeed on.jpg

blown 40 amp fuse.jpg

blown 30 amp fuse.jpg
 
Update 11/4/2022

Final finished a battery and got out for a ride. This bike is a blast! I just did short spurts in the neighborhood but was able to hit 52 mph a few times. Here are some screen shots:

battery with top.jpg


bike with battery.jpg


50 mph screen shot.jpg


2012 zero ride 11-3-2022.jpg


So far all I have done is connect the throttle directly to the controller (with 60v plus). Also, while trying to figure out the wiring, I shorted out the 12v system. It now is on when I plug in the battery (with no key). In addition, I broke the 200 Amp, 24v activated relay which I replaced with a the same 200 amp relay but 60v activation. Now I have to route the key, shutoff switch along with the 12v system and the relay and get this bike to the DMV. They have to view the Vin to complete the registration. Any wiring tips or help are welcome. I have been dreaming about riding and owning this bike for a few years.


For those interested, here are some details on the battery build.

After looking at larger used cells like the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt and Toyota Prius. I decided to go with Samsung 25r cells and ordered 500 cells from Dhgate delivered for $1250.00 The final pack is a 30p,14s. On paper it is about 3.8KW. The 14 7/8" x 10" x 6 3/4" battery space is a challenge. Here are some photos:


5s battery section.jpg

battery box.jpg

battery box in bike.jpg


starting on the 30p, 14s battery.jpg

5s section.jpg

battery sections in box.jpg

connecting sections together.jpg

ground strap and copper pipe busbar.jpg

adding BMS.jpg

Now I need to figure out how the wire this bike. I am a novice at this and have already messed up creating sparks and shorts. Any advice is welcome. Here is where all the wires meet. Thanks for all the help!


wire connection.jpg
 
Update 11/23/2022

Got the Zero to the DMV for an inspection (Vin and Motor number check). Had to take off the bottom panel so the DMV official could view the motor number.

Zero getting inspected at the DMV-VIN and motor number.jpg

Since then, I have about 200 miles, mostly around town with some short road trips. My longest trip is 25 miles. Top speed starts to drop along with the battery voltage and I was topping out at 45 mph after 20 miles.

Also, since I live in a 2nd floor condo, I have been parking the bike under the stairs and charging at night. This is in violation of our HOA rules but my neighbors are are fine with it, so far. I just need to run an extension chord out the front door and down the stairs. I also rent part of a car port and tested out my Harbor Freight solar panel straight to battery. This work fine but is less than 100 watts. There is no place to plug in near the car ports. I would put the panels on the roof if I was the owner.


charging at home.jpg


solor charging with w a harborfreight 100 watt 4 pannel system.jpg


Still working out my onboard charging setup. I picked up a J1772 adapter on Ebay and have been using a pair of Meanwell HLG-320H-54A set to 58.8 volts and Max Amps.


J1772 to meanwell 240v adapter.jpg

charging on the road.jpg

charging with paralleled meanwell HLG 320H 54A power supplies.jpg




My plan is to mount these MeanWells on the bottom of the frame and the plug under the back of the seat. Then pick up a MeanWell NPP 1200 that I could throw in a backpack on road trips to get 1.8KW of charging. Each can do 120vac or 240vac. If you know of a better charger setup, let me know.



Meanwell NPP 1200.jpg
 
Very cool! Thanks for sharing!!!
 
OK, I have been having an issue with the Altrax 7245 controller cutting off power to the motor. It happens when I am just riding along, suddenly lose all power. There is no blinking codes showing on the controller, just a solid green LED. I assumed it might be a throttle issue, so, I rewired and re-crimped the throttle connections. I also tested the throttle and it seems to jump from 0 ohms quickly but then is liner to 4.95 K ohms. It ran well for a few days, then it started cutting out again. After I lose power, I wait awhile (10 min), plug and unplug the battery a few times, to get power back on. I can hear a click coming from the controller when power is back on. I have always made it back home but this makes riding a little stressful. I was think of ordering a communication cable and/or a new throttle. Any suggestions?

Even with the power cutting off, this bike is a blast to ride. It is so light and quick compared to my 500 pound bike. I got over 37 mile when I range tested. I also purchased this charger on eBay for $150.

zero moto charger 1500 watt 30 amps at 58 volts.jpg

It is working well and does 31 amps @58v. and fits in a small tail bag. I have been able to charge at many of the free local charging stations (gym, store, park...) so I do not need to push it under my stairs to charge much.

Screenshot 2022-12-20 213738.jpg


Screenshot 2022-12-20 214040.jpg


Also, If anyone is restoring this bike, it has it is a 420 chain with 133 links. If you get a clip-on style chain, you will need to adjust the chain guard.
 
I don't recall if the Altrax is like this, but some controllers will cease to output anything if a pot throttle changes overall resistance (not the output signal wire, but across the two main (5v / ground) leads.

Some will also cease to output if the throttle signal jumps during operation, such as you can get from a poor connection in a ocnnector or wire, or a bad wiper in a pot throttle.

Both of those types of controller only work with pot throttles, and do not work with hall throttles, because of those features. I've personally only seen this with brushed controllers, not brushless.


It could also be unrelated to the throttle, and be a battery problem--the battery sags enough to hit the Altrax LVC, then it shuts off, but once load is removed, the battery voltage goes back up so the controller might not give an error code because there isn't an error anymore.
 
Thanks Amberwolf, My battery does not sag much and the cutoff usually happens around 10 mph, either slowly accelerating or slowly decelerating. I have not been able to find much information on this form. The golfcart forms have good info on the Altrax controller. 0 to 5K ohm throttle faults seem common. One form said after a throttle fault there is a 700 second time out which seems very similar to my issue. The bike has not cutoff on the highway (40 mph+) but I get in the right lane at stop lights. It runs awesome when I go hard on the throttle off the line. I am looking at a Magura or the Sur ron replacement throttle to see if that would solve my problem.
 
If you know of a better charger setup, let me know.

You could go for 2 vertiv / emerson R48-2000e3s and program those to 58,5V, as shown here:

In series they would give you a 4KW charger at reasonable costs and a nice formfactor...
I'm charging my 105Ah battery in my govecs Go S 3.4 with two of those programmed to 42V each...
Makes nearly 1h of riding for 1 h charging. :cool:
 
Up date:

After getting a new throttle, and trying many different programing settings on the original controller, I still had the bike randomly shutting off. unplugging the battery and/or popping off the throttle connectors from the controller, then reconnecting seemed to work for a while, but, I was pushing the bike home too often, so, I decided to replace the controller with the recommended Alltrax SR 72500.


working on the zero in the family room.jpgprograming the controller downstairs.jpgboth controllers.jpg


Since then, everything has been running great! I've had stress free riding for the last month. I am still playing with the settings, but get 54 mph on a fully charged battery. After 30 miles, at mostly full throttle, I am down to 45 mph. I replaced the chain (had 4 inches of play with the motor full forward), and fixed the mirrors with super glue.


fixing mirrors with superglue.jpg



I had the bike in my living room for about 4 months, and my next door neighbor, decided to park his ebike in my charging spot (under the stairs), so I have been charging at public charging stations.




zero charging in Cypress after sunset.jpgwatt meter while charging the zero.jpg



I am currently using a mini GPS for my odometer until I can figure out how to wire the original.



Mini GPS.jpg


Besides getting the zero odometer to work, I am thinking of a 20s samsung 40t battery in the future. I might try a 15 tooth front sprocket.
Also, Jollmo, Thanks for the R48-2000e3s info. I am always looking for used chargers on ebay.
 
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9/18/2023 update

First, I kept getting ads for this Emerson R48-3000e3 power supply so I purchased one set at 58 volts for $89 from AliExpress. I did not think it would last. It is 1/3 the size and weight of my 1500w charger. After a few weeks I am very impressed.

Screenshot 2023-09-15 104149.jpg

emerson r48-3000.jpg

emerson r48-3000 parts.jpg


charger in new tail bag.jpg

charging at station.jpg

emerson r48-3000 on watt meter.jpg

Screenshot of emersonr48-3000 charger after 30 minutes.jpg


I had to purchase a longer tail bag and swap out Andersons for xt90 connectors. It also does not heat up much. Not sure if you can put 2 in series to make 116 volts. Thanks again jollmo!


I also purchased 4, 100 watt solar panels. I am am maxing out at 290 watts total, but, can get 2 kilowatts in my battery in 8 hours if I move the panels around on a sunny day.

zero charging in parking lot.jpg

zero solar charging in complex.jpg


Still thinking of making a 18s or 20s, Samsung 40t pack so I can go a little faster than 50 mph on PCH, where the speed limit is up to 60.
 
You can put 2 in series!
Just remove 1 screw on the back of the devices... (lower side)
 
Why you need to remove a screw on the vertiv?

I use two Huawei R4875G5 in series on a 2 phase setup and they work perfectly up to 117V and 8kw charging power.
They have a fully isolated Can-Bus so you can set them with one Can from an ESP32 and send values with your smart phone via Bluetooth.
My next step will be adding two vertiv R48-2000e3 to the third phase to give me up to 125A charging current and 10kw charging power for my 21S100Ah battery

20231017_175406.jpgScreenshot_20231017_175055.jpg
 
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"Why you need to remove a screw on the vertiv?"

No idea actually, most probably to separate GND from chassis?
I've been unable to get 84V without removing them, measured only the output of one of the vertivs...
Maybe it's enough to remove it from the second one in series...
Or maybe not at all, but I kind of had to do that.
(just saw, you use them on two separate phases, maybe it's needed, if you use two on only one outlet, what I did when testing my setup...)
 
I first tested the two Huawei with half the power on a single phase. They worked without any problem.

I will soon add the two vertiv for the third phase and will see if I have to change something.
 
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You can put 2 in series!
Just remove 1 screw on the back of the devices... (lower side)
Testet two vertiv R48-2000e3 in series today. Tested from the same phase and also from two different phases.
No problems getting voltage out of the two. Up to 117V was possible.

I also tried and removed the screw from underneath, but it doesn´t change anything.
The housing is still in the middle of the output voltage and with the same high resistance to the output voltage, even a multimeter can draw the voltage on the housing during measuring to near zero.

Connected the two housing with and without the screw insered and everything ist still working.
So for me no need to remove screws.
 
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