Questions From A New Member

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dragon

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Joined
Feb 2, 2023
Messages
58
Location
Calgary, AB
Hi everyone, new member here & I have a lot of newbie questions but I'll just start with 2 questions haha.

I have a Gio Demon (Daymak EM2/Emmo Zone/etc electric bike/scooter/motorcycle 72v, 2000w hub motor, etc) that I will eventually post an upgrade/mod thread about. I've owned it for less than a year & I was able to license & register it as a 50cc scooter/moped so I plan to upgrade the hub motor & controller later this year. It currently has SLA batteries so first step will be a lithium battery pack.

1) Can a lithium battery pack (in it's own steel case) be installed on its end or its side?
(In case later on down the road I buy a 2nd lithium battery pack & stack them side-by-side to double range)

2) Can these e-bikes/motorcycles with a hub motor be towed using a motorcycle dolly like in the attached photo?

TIA
 

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When you tow the bike it will generate some power. The rpm and voltage are proportional so if you tow it faster than it is designed to spin then it can produce more voltage than the controller is designed for. Since the controller is not trying to regen its not going to be producing a lot of energy but I think the voltage is your main concern.

The safest bet would be to unplug the motor when you tow it.
 
DanGT86 said:
When you tow the bike it will generate some power. The rpm and voltage are proportional so if you tow it faster than it is designed to spin then it can produce more voltage than the controller is designed for. Since the controller is not trying to regen its not going to be producing a lot of energy but I think the voltage is your main concern.

The safest bet would be to unplug the motor when you tow it.
Click to expand...
Thank you DanGT86, to be clear do you mean disconnect both the phase wires & hall connector?
Would shutting off the breaker suffice?
If I kept my towing speed equal to the normal speed I ride the bike at, then would I be okay without unplugging anything?
Max distance I was planning to tow like this would be a few miles, just between home, work & storage facility when needed.
 
Since there's no liquid in the lithium batteries they can be mounted on their side from the info I've seen.

I'm looking to get an Daymak EM2 and have a question : Whats the top speed you can get on the flats with it? I've read its between 50- 60kph with the 2000watt motor.
 
E-Moto Tuner said:
Since there's no liquid in the lithium batteries they can be mounted on their side from the info I've seen.

I'm looking to get an Daymak EM2 and have a question : Whats the top speed you can get on the flats with it? I've read its between 50- 60kph with the 2000watt motor.
Click to expand...
Thanks that's what I'm assuming but wanted further confirmation from people smarter than me.

My bike has the electric governor removed so the usable top speed is about 65kph
I have had it up 79-81 kph drafting behind big trucks on flat stretches of road when the traffic lights cooperated.
IMG_4499.PNG

The only reason I got the gio demon was because it was the cheapest motorcycle-looking e-bike available locally that had a VIN so I could legally register it as a 50cc moped/scooter.
I intended to upgrade & mod it after I registered it so I wanted to spend as little as possible upfront.
The Gio Demon / Daymak EM2 / Tao Leo / Emmo Zone / Armada Commander / etc are pretty much the same, just different flavours.
I've heard the Tao Leo & Emmo Zone's have higher top speeds out of the box.
 
dragon said:
Thank you DanGT86, to be clear do you mean disconnect both the phase wires & hall connector?
Would shutting off the breaker suffice?
If I kept my towing speed equal to the normal speed I ride the bike at, then would I be okay without unplugging anything?
Max distance I was planning to tow like this would be a few miles, just between home, work & storage facility when needed.
Click to expand...

I was meaning just the phase wires. The halls shouldn't generate anything.

The breaker would keep anything from trying to backfeed your battery. I was more concerned with the motor generating voltage above some of the ratings of the components in the controller. If you are under the max speed you normally I would think it's likely ok. Still seems safer to unplug the phase wires just to be sure.

My first ebike had a cycle analyst display/computer on it. With the power off you could roll the bike across the ground and the screen would flicker due to the voltage generated by the hub. Grin ended up warrantying that device and said some of them had been damaged from the voltage flickering right around the minimum turn on voltage of the device.

There are also some circuits in cheap motor controllers that can be damaged if the voltage is too low for an extended period of time.

After learning of these things I am always a bit cautious about feeding a device random changing voltage.
 
Hi
the generating of hub has been answered already, so i want to comment on another aspect you wrote about:
I would refrain from adding another battery parallel later on.
too much hazzle to get it right..
Rule of thumb:
always parallel your cells first then series them.

I would rather up the voltage and re-gear ( if that is possible) later eventhough mixing old and new cells is not a very good thing too.

flo
 
Thank you @DanGT86 & @flob for your information.

I guess I'll look at getting a single 72v 50 or 60Ah battery instead of a 30Ah one now & a second one later (prob from aliexpress since building my own battery pack is beyond my current comfort level)

To allow quick disconnect of the hub motor for towing & facilitate easier tire changes, I thought about placing connectors by the swingarm. Maybe using XT90 or XT150 for the hall wires? Though I feel more comfortable with crimp connectors than soldered connectors.

After a battery upgrade, it would be the hub motor & controller.
The bike has a 16" 260 qs hub motor so I'm planning to upgrade to the 17" version of the 260 hub motor.
(going up to a 17" option will give me better & more tire options)
I've narrowed down my motor choices to 4k - 6k. For my current situation, no need to step up to 8k or higher motor.

The controller is where I'm constantly flipping back & forth. At the moment my 2 leading choices are a votol em200 & fardriver ND72530.
 
dragon said:
E-Moto Tuner said:
Since there's no liquid in the lithium batteries they can be mounted on their side from the info I've seen.

I'm looking to get an Daymak EM2 and have a question : Whats the top speed you can get on the flats with it? I've read its between 50- 60kph with the 2000watt motor.
Click to expand...
Thanks that's what I'm assuming but wanted further confirmation from people smarter than me.

My bike has the electric governor removed so the usable top speed is about 65kph
I have had it up 79-81 kph drafting behind big trucks on flat stretches of road when the traffic lights cooperated.
IMG_4499.PNG

The only reason I got the gio demon was because it was the cheapest motorcycle-looking e-bike available locally that had a VIN so I could legally register it as a 50cc moped/scooter.
I intended to upgrade & mod it after I registered it so I wanted to spend as little as possible upfront.
The Gio Demon / Daymak EM2 / Tao Leo / Emmo Zone / Armada Commander / etc are pretty much the same, just different flavours.
I've heard the Tao Leo & Emmo Zone's have higher top speeds out of the box.
Click to expand...

81 drafting is pretty good. Guess you used the bluetooth app to remove the governer, heard the app is pretty good for tweaking settings. How much do you weigh may I ask? with the variation on top speeds I would guess the riders weight would expain the 10kph differences I've seen.
 
E-Moto Tuner said:
81 drafting is pretty good. Guess you used the bluetooth app to remove the governer, heard the app is pretty good for tweaking settings. How much do you weigh may I ask? with the variation on top speeds I would guess the riders weight would expain the 10kph differences I've seen.
Click to expand...

No problem, I haven't stepped on a weight scale in decades lol but I'm venturing I'm around 145lbs?

The Gio Demon bike I have doesn't have a bluetooth app that I'm aware of so not options to tinker with settings.
I thought I had 6 - 12v 20Ah batteries but found out I have 6 - 12v 22.3Ah batteries so a hair better than the standard SLA offerings. (must have had a battery shortage at the factory when it was build during covid)

The Speed governor on/off procedure as told by the shop I bought it from:
Pull the front brake lever and twist the throttle to full at the same time, and hold them there.
While you keep them held, turn the key on, count to ten slowly, then shut it off...
then release the lever and throttle....
This procedure will toggle the speed governor on & off.

I was only given this procedure after I told them I registered & insured it.
I was told the speedometer display itself was limited to 32 kph. That was true as I tested it.
While mounting some warranty replacement panels, I unplugged 1 connector behind the headlights & voila the speedometer now displays full speed & it was within 1-2kph of my gps on my phone.
 
dragon said:
E-Moto Tuner said:
81 drafting is pretty good. Guess you used the bluetooth app to remove the governer, heard the app is pretty good for tweaking settings. How much do you weigh may I ask? with the variation on top speeds I would guess the riders weight would expain the 10kph differences I've seen.
Click to expand...

No problem, I haven't stepped on a weight scale in decades lol but I'm venturing I'm around 145lbs?

The Gio Demon bike I have doesn't have a bluetooth app that I'm aware of so not options to tinker with settings.
I thought I had 6 - 12v 20Ah batteries but found out I have 6 - 12v 22.3Ah batteries so a hair better than the standard SLA offerings. (must have had a battery shortage at the factory when it was build during covid)

The Speed governor on/off procedure as told by the shop I bought it from:
Pull the front brake lever and twist the throttle to full at the same time, and hold them there.
While you keep them held, turn the key on, count to ten slowly, then shut it off...
then release the lever and throttle....
This procedure will toggle the speed governor on & off.

I was only given this procedure after I told them I registered & insured it.
I was told the speedometer display itself was limited to 32 kph. That was true as I tested it.
While mounting some warranty replacement panels, I unplugged 1 connector behind the headlights & voila the speedometer now displays full speed & it was within 1-2kph of my gps on my phone.
Click to expand...

Interesting way to turn off the governor on the non bluetooth model and good to know. If you get a chance to take a pic of that 1 connector that unlocked the speedo that would be great too. On other bikes I've heard you can tweak a potentiometer in the gauge display but the connector tip on your style bike is much easier.

For your future hub motor swap to 17" will you have to get a new swing arm as well or do you have enough room to use the stock one?
 
I'm guessing it all depends on how the controllers are set up from the factory. A tech at the shop I bought the bike from said there was no way he knew or heard of getting the speedometer show anything over 32kph. I'll eventually get around to posting a mod/build thread so I'll dig through some photos to see what I have.

Regarding the swing arm, as far as I can tell, should be able to swap a new hub motor into the existing swing arm though won't know for sure until parts are in hand to test fit.
 
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