how to program a sevcon gen4

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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 08 2021 12:44pm

I recall that the precharge system is sometimes finicky--did you check the pre-charge settings window? If the relay is not closing then the conditions for closure aren't being met, or the relay may not be operable by the Sevcon--I think it doesn't like PWM controlled relay economizers, like Gigavac sometimes has.

As a workaround, I think you might be able to disable the precharge and do it yourself.

Another super kludgey approach we used to do if this can't be disabled and you're in a hurry, you can turn on the key switch, let it precharge, wait till the precharge circuit has disengaged (the DC voltage will start dropping slowly), and at that time turn on your relay manually. If you don't wait too long and the timing is correct, the system will startup normally without error.

CAUTION: If you close the relay too early it will connect the battery to the precharge circuit and possibly damage it, that's the only way I have ever damaged a Sevcon, so I take no responsibility here.

There is a Sevcon troubleshooting thread somethere around here you can dig around.

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by Pajda » Apr 08 2021 1:43pm

That is a good point, can you please send us contactor setting window screen and what type of relay/contactor do you use?

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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 08 2021 2:33pm

everythingisawave wrote:
Apr 08 2021 12:44pm
I recall that the precharge system is sometimes finicky--did you check the pre-charge settings window? If the relay is not closing then the conditions for closure aren't being met, or the relay may not be operable by the Sevcon--I think it doesn't like PWM controlled relay economizers, like Gigavac sometimes has.

As a workaround, I think you might be able to disable the precharge and do it yourself.

Another super kludgey approach we used to do if this can't be disabled and you're in a hurry, you can turn on the key switch, let it precharge, wait till the precharge circuit has disengaged (the DC voltage will start dropping slowly), and at that time turn on your relay manually. If you don't wait too long and the timing is correct, the system will startup normally without error.

CAUTION: If you close the relay too early it will connect the battery to the precharge circuit and possibly damage it, that's the only way I have ever damaged a Sevcon, so I take no responsibility here.

There is a Sevcon troubleshooting thread somethere around here you can dig around.
Also: also check that you aren't drawing any other power from the bus during precharge.

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 08 2021 2:56pm

The contactor I am using is a 12-24V contactor (Kilovac EV200 I believe). It had a built-in economizer which was causing issues back when I first installed it a few weeks ago. So I took it apart and removed the circuit board so now the wires just go straight to the coil. My pull-in voltage is set to 16V with 12V for holding. The precharge level is 85%. I tried lowering the precharge to 75% and 70% but still no luck last night. I've noticed that every time I power on the controller the info window shows 3 errors:
1. precharge fail (the one I'm stuck with now)
2. power supply critical (not sure about this one since the battery is charged and I've changed the voltage cutbacks)
3. preop (the unit is just in preoperational mode)
My contactor is using contactor out #1, so it's just connected to pins 3 and 4 on the gen4.

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by Pajda » Apr 08 2021 3:58pm

Hmm.. you can also try to use small automotive 12V relay connected to Sevcon contactor output and so your Kilovac contactor will be switched by it on another 12V power supply. This will show you if there is problem with the current draw of your EV200. But more probably there is still some bug in the contactor settings.

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 08 2021 4:41pm

I can try the smaller relay as a secondary switch as we have some in the lab, but would the contactor be what's causing the precharge fail? I feel like that would be something else, or am I wrong?

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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 08 2021 5:55pm

evc_motorcycle wrote:
Apr 08 2021 2:56pm
The contactor I am using is a 12-24V contactor (Kilovac EV200 I believe). It had a built-in economizer which was causing issues back when I first installed it a few weeks ago. So I took it apart and removed the circuit board so now the wires just go straight to the coil. My pull-in voltage is set to 16V with 12V for holding. The precharge level is 85%. I tried lowering the precharge to 75% and 70% but still no luck last night. I've noticed that every time I power on the controller the info window shows 3 errors:
1. precharge fail (the one I'm stuck with now)
2. power supply critical (not sure about this one since the battery is charged and I've changed the voltage cutbacks)
3. preop (the unit is just in preoperational mode)
My contactor is using contactor out #1, so it's just connected to pins 3 and 4 on the gen4.
Can't remember if the contactor will energize in pre-op? But yeah as @Padja said I would try swapping out the contactor to see, and also use a voltmeter to check if it is even making an effort to close the contactor. Sometimes the inrush of the larger contactors is quite high. If you're using a lab power supply you should double check that the current limit is enough too (silly mistake I've made before).

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by flippy » Apr 08 2021 5:58pm

in pre op the contactor will not engage.

try increasing the precharge time.

power supply critical error usually means the input it gets from the ignition is dicky. i have seen this with "scratchy" ignition switches as they are ment for 12V not 72V and the ignition contacts gets destroyed by pitting of the contacts.
try using a different switch or use a relay.
it uses that line to precharge so it does carry a bit of current during precharge and if the power is intermittent or the current flow changes a lot like with a dicky connection it can error out.
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darseygodwin   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by darseygodwin » Apr 08 2021 6:08pm

Deleted the redundant post, flippy already answered it better.

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 08 2021 7:33pm

Thank you all for the suggestions. I hadn't considered a worn-out keyswitch. I will definitely try swapping out both that and the contactor next time I'm in the lab. If the keyswitch is in fact the issue then I will put a relay in the loop to take some of the load off the keywitch. When I measure the voltage from one side of the keyswitch to B- I get the full 56V, but when I measure from B- to B+ (with the contactor open), it is usually around 36-40V because the precharge isn't working correctly. I tried using a power supply initially, but had too many issues with tripping the overcurrent protection, so I switched to an extra kart pack we had in the lab. With regards to increasing the charge time, I don't believe I know where that parameter is located. Is that the "pull-in time" in the contactor branch?

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by Pajda » Apr 10 2021 7:22am

Here you can see all contactor settings in older DVT 1.10 (licenced), as I mentioned before DVT software evolved during times and newer versions have more or different setting possibilities. But you could alway be able to set all parameters thru the "console" if you know their ID.

Also I must say that I have never worked with the oldest DVT (the one which did not need a licence) and so it is possible that some errors can be caused due to this outdated DVT.
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evc_motorcycle   1 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 10 2021 9:12am

I am using DVT 1.0 (it is the only version we were able to get a copy of) and several of the GUI screens look different, such as the contactor one. I haven't used the command line for editing parameters, but I'm assuming all I need is the object dictionary and I just look up the address and write a new value to it? Is it right that the old version of DVT would still support writing to those addresses, even though they don't show up in the helper window?

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by buddhafragt » Apr 12 2021 5:30am

Hi,
someone have the "CANopen utilities add-in" for Excel??
I try to generate a Object Database from the Master Object Dictionary.xls, but I got a error message, the add-in is not installed... :roll:

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Ingo   1 W

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by Ingo » Apr 13 2021 1:49pm

ZALO wrote:
Dec 26 2020 4:54pm
I used this kit and I do not recommend the Emrax LV motor version
can you give me the dfc file for this motor ?

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 14 2021 9:36pm

Hi everyone, I am super excited to say that I have the 1302 spinning up successfully with the Sevcon Gen4!!! Turns out that there was a single parameter (minimum capacitor precharge voltage) that does not show up in the helper window in DVT 1.0. Once I fixed this value (and used the motor phase order procedure) the motor spun! I've also added in an automotive relay on the keyswitch to avoid wear over time. The next few weeks will be tweaking and tuning and working on the actual installation process as the motor and all wiring is currently on a table. Thanks so much to everyone who gave input these past few weeks. I could not have progressed this far without your advice. I'm looking forward to posting more updates in other parts of the electric motorcycle forum! :D

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by flippy » Apr 15 2021 2:13am

Called it. Good job finding it.
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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 15 2021 2:12pm

evc_motorcycle wrote:
Apr 14 2021 9:36pm
Hi everyone, I am super excited to say that I have the 1302 spinning up successfully with the Sevcon Gen4!!! Turns out that there was a single parameter (minimum capacitor precharge voltage) that does not show up in the helper window in DVT 1.0. Once I fixed this value (and used the motor phase order procedure) the motor spun! I've also added in an automotive relay on the keyswitch to avoid wear over time. The next few weeks will be tweaking and tuning and working on the actual installation process as the motor and all wiring is currently on a table. Thanks so much to everyone who gave input these past few weeks. I could not have progressed this far without your advice. I'm looking forward to posting more updates in other parts of the electric motorcycle forum! :D
How did you do with the encoder calibration?

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 15 2021 5:16pm

I used the procedure outlined in one of the Sevcon manuals to determine the phase order of the motor we're using and which wire was sine and which was cosine. Once it was hooked up I followed the directions in another post on this forum and ran the encoder commision script. After graphing my voltage vectors (finally non-zero!) I got what is pictured below, and figured that since the line is close to the y-axis then the current offset was okay.
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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 16 2021 2:16am

evc_motorcycle wrote:
Apr 15 2021 5:16pm
I used the procedure outlined in one of the Sevcon manuals to determine the phase order of the motor we're using and which wire was sine and which was cosine. Once it was hooked up I followed the directions in another post on this forum and ran the encoder commision script. After graphing my voltage vectors (finally non-zero!) I got what is pictured below, and figured that since the line is close to the y-axis then the current offset was okay.
That's how it is usually done but I'm curious about why it didn't work the first time, as we had provided suggestions about that and wondered what changed.

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by flippy » Apr 16 2021 5:33am

we really need to make a single (Read only) topic strictly on how to operate and commission a motor on a sevcon.
there is plenty of experience here but its quite spread out over the forum.

prehaps add some google drive links to a collection of DCF's and other files that might be of use. no need to learn to commision a motor and dick around with DCF's for days when someone else already did it on that motor.

if we can gather a bunch of links to existing posts i (or someone else) can mash them all together into a single topic/post for easy reference.
The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten

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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 16 2021 5:42am

flippy wrote:
Apr 16 2021 5:33am
we really need to make a single (Read only) topic strictly on how to operate and commission a motor on a sevcon.
there is plenty of experience here but its quite spread out over the forum.

prehaps add some google drive links to a collection of DCF's and other files that might be of use. no need to learn to commision a motor and dick around with DCF's for days when someone else already did it on that motor.

if we can gather a bunch of links to existing posts i (or someone else) can mash them all together into a single topic/post for easy reference.
Good idea, a wiki would be great but would take more work.

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by j bjork » Apr 16 2021 5:43am

flippy wrote:
Apr 16 2021 5:33am
we really need to make a single (Read only) topic strictly on how to operate and commission a motor on a sevcon.
there is plenty of experience here but its quite spread out over the forum.

prehaps add some google drive links to a collection of DCF's and other files that might be of use. no need to learn to commision a motor and dick around with DCF's for days when someone else already did it on that motor.

if we can gather a bunch of links to existing posts i (or someone else) can mash them all together into a single topic/post for easy reference.
:bigthumb:

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by Pajda » Apr 16 2021 8:16am

evc_motorcycle wrote:
Apr 15 2021 5:16pm
I used the procedure outlined in one of the Sevcon manuals to determine the phase order of the motor we're using and which wire was sine and which was cosine. Once it was hooked up I followed the directions in another post on this forum and ran the encoder commision script. After graphing my voltage vectors (finally non-zero!) I got what is pictured below, and figured that since the line is close to the y-axis then the current offset was okay.
nice, btw. what is the Encoder offset value for your ME1302?

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by evc_motorcycle » Apr 16 2021 9:43am

Hi everythingisawave, I believe that the only things that changed between my weird (kind-of) circular graph and the one I recently posted were the firmware on my controller and the order of my sin-cos wires. I had determined the correct color association, but then plugged them into pins 35/21 in the wrong order :roll: . There was also a bad connection between the +5V supply and the ME1302 encoder, so that wire had to be replaced.
After those few things, the instructions here: viewtopic.php?t=88647 were what I used. Our dynamometer is currently out-of-commission, so I used the method with setting 0 torque and spinning the motor with a power drill.

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everythingisawave   100 mW

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Re: how to program a sevcon gen4

Post by everythingisawave » Apr 16 2021 10:17am

evc_motorcycle wrote:
Apr 16 2021 9:43am
Hi everythingisawave, I believe that the only things that changed between my weird (kind-of) circular graph and the one I recently posted were the firmware on my controller and the order of my sin-cos wires. I had determined the correct color association, but then plugged them into pins 35/21 in the wrong order :roll: . There was also a bad connection between the +5V supply and the ME1302 encoder, so that wire had to be replaced.
After those few things, the instructions here: viewtopic.php?t=88647 were what I used. Our dynamometer is currently out-of-commission, so I used the method with setting 0 torque and spinning the motor with a power drill.
OK thanks. Looks like bad power connection would have done it, and also earlier on not enabling the forward switch during calibration, perhaps. Lessons learned..

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