Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
AZeBikeGuy   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by AZeBikeGuy » Jan 20 2022 9:01am

A fat-tire sur-ron would be sweet for AZ sugar sand and deep gravel washes... not so sure I'd like to give up much travel but it does bring a bit of saliva thinking about it

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 20 2022 1:11pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 19 2022 10:07pm
I know rockin' a mullet is nothing new, but a fatty on my Sur Ron is new to me!

Image

So my Killah has been uselessly worn out for far too long. Bought a fatty air shock for $100 - delivered.

Yes it has less travel, but the fat tire alone makes it more plush than running the pointless worn out shocks and for now at least have a shock that actually functions.

The tire feels like squeezing on a Dodgeball - oh baby! :flame:

Rolls over all obstacles much better of course, while helping keep the front from diving down..

It's currently super icy out on the roads. Riding the fatty with the same conditions as the last ride but I didn't loose control on the front once - compared to several times prior.

Lost control on the back a few times, but it is much less of a problem than when you loose control of the front wheel since it kind of just gets dragged behind you. Versus when the front wheel is sliding sideways it very much wants you to immediately eat shit.

Only downside is it messed with the geometry a tad - feels a bit more squirrelly but overall still more stable (really only noticeable when going slow). Overall it's only an 1" taller in the front. But looks like I can restore a bit of the slacker feel by changing to a longer handlebar stem length.

I guess If I run a taller tire in the back (say also an 1" taller) I guess I would get the slacker back?

I think I'm actually going to run the same tire in the back with the help of a machined extender for the swing arm - it only needs to be like an inch or two longer. I welcome any thoughts and suggestions on the idea. I'd just try it, but I'll need to have a new wheel built to do it.
Nicely done.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 20 2022 9:57pm

Cheburator wrote:
Jan 20 2022 3:19am
3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 19 2022 10:07pm
I guess If I run a taller tire in the back (say also an 1" taller) I guess I would get the slacker back?
You can use Rear Suspension Linkage Riser to fix the geometry.

https://www.warp9racing.com/product/sur ... age-riser/
Can someone confirm that those risers increases the height of the rear axle above the ground? There doesn’t appear to really be a description for them.
AZeBikeGuy wrote:
Jan 20 2022 9:01am
A fat-tire sur-ron would be sweet for AZ sugar sand and deep gravel washes... not so sure I'd like to give up much travel but it does bring a bit of saliva thinking about it
I’ve been dreaming of it for way too long now and to get 3/4 of the way there only cost me $100! Not to mention the wheel I borrowed from my fat bike.

I say 3/4 of the way because often for my conditions loosing control over the front wheel is harder to recover than from losing control of the rear wheel. In fact, in the snow, I intentionally loose control in the back - it's part of the fun!

I did loose travel but a fat tire makes up quite a bit of it - for the type of riding I do at least.

I’ve never come close to bottoming out the rear suspension, so should be fine for my purposes having a fat wheel in the back like I plan.

I just love the way fat bikes handle. They mob over everything like they just don’t give a shit and super fun on corning. That combined with the power of a Firefly and overall reduced weight puts a smile on my face thinking about it.
Rix wrote:
Jan 20 2022 1:11pm
Nicely done.
Thanks Rix!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Jan 20 2022 10:08pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 20 2022 9:57pm
Can someone confirm that those risers increases the height of the rear axle above the ground?
No. Axle to ground dimension is controlled by the radius of your wheel.
These links change the geometry of the shock/swingarm/frame so that the static position of the frame is lifted relative to what it was before. They can also change linkage travel/force ratios.
Surron (heavily modded), X160 (kid's), '21 Freeride E-XC

AZeBikeGuy   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by AZeBikeGuy » Jan 21 2022 9:27am

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 20 2022 9:57pm
...
I just love the way fat bikes handle. They mob over everything like they just don’t give a shit and super fun on corning. That combined with the power of a Firefly and overall reduced weight puts a smile on my face thinking about it.
...
True that!

I've long said that most anyone that's given the fat tires an honest chance never want to go back... for some reason a lot of guys coming from MTB's won't even give them a chance, very prejudiced... I guess folks just don't like change

I just don't find any downsides... they are a little heavier but not enough to offset all the many benefits of the ginormous contact patch

I even have a hard time convincing some of the converts to run them at low enough pressures to get the full benefits - they just can't get their head wrapped around even 10-12psi...

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jan 21 2022 9:31am

Nucular Mount/Cover. Pre Order Price 49,90€ for 10 slots.
appreciate given feedback in daily and offroad suitability.
It will be extended 5mm as you can see in the picture to make it snug fit to the bashplate.
The Grid is bolted and can be exchanged. For example in Winter conditions to a closed on or both for the look.
Grid and a closed one behind. Will all provided on demand.
shipping worldwide 10€ for the 10slots.
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X-Nitro   10 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Jan 22 2022 5:54pm

Fat bike tires are much more susceptible to flats than m/c tires, and I wouldn't expect that their thin carcass or lightweight rim will hold up well to sur ron level of off-road abuse. Other than that have I noticed there is a lot of cross-wind steering interference with a fatty front when you are out on the open road...So after 2 sets of USD FAT dual-crown, spring forks, my 8yo fat street bike now wears Fox float 40 & surron 17" for urban riding...The surron 19 & 21" dual-sport are fun options when necessary.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 22 2022 6:42pm

X-Nitro wrote:
Jan 22 2022 5:54pm
Fat bike tires are much more susceptible to flats than m/c tires,
Well I run tubeless. Where I live I just have never had to ride home on a flat since going tubeless on all my rides. My Sur Ron MX tires have been tubeless for years, and so has my fat bike and Yeti.

Kind of a moot point when fat is at its’ greatest advantage as there is not much to give you a flat when the path is iced over and/or with snow on top.

Speaking of which, I went on the first powder ride with the new fatty front and it’s not even close to the MX tire. Absolutely night and day. I was going faster than ever and getting just as fishy with it as I liked. One of my funnest rides on the Sur Ron ever in-fact.

But if one was concerned about inner tube flats, I suppose they could bring a patch kit, hell, bring a whole spare inner tube?
X-Nitro wrote:
Jan 22 2022 5:54pm
and I wouldn't expect that their thin carcass or lightweight rim will hold up well to sur ron level of off-road abuse.
The combined weight of the Sur Ron and my weight are not really any different than a large person on a bike and they subjected to all kinds of abuse. I'm not one to go large on jumps so for my riding style I think I will be just fine.

If it’s a problem just build a beefier wheel set. Nothing stopping you from making it as heavy as you want.
X-Nitro wrote:
Jan 22 2022 5:54pm
Other than that have I noticed there is a lot of cross-wind steering interference with a fatty front when you are out on the open road...
Hmm never been an issue on my fat bike - but I live in the forested mountains.

There is no question the fat front is vastly better for my conditions for close to half of the year (some of fall + winter + some of the Spring Mud) but do what makes you happy.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 22 2022 9:11pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 21 2022 9:31am
Nucular Mount/Cover. Pre Order Price 49,90€ for 10 slots.
appreciate given feedback in daily and offroad suitability.
It will be extended 5mm as you can see in the picture to make it snug fit to the bashplate.
The Grid is bolted and can be exchanged. For example in Winter conditions to a closed on or both for the look.
Grid and a closed one behind. Will all provided on demand.
shipping worldwide 10€ for the 10slots.
Thats nice Merlin :bigthumb:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by DEHiCKA » Jan 31 2022 9:31am

Guys, anyone tried the Sur-ron version of the Nuc 24f controller on non Sur-ron bike?
I have found the pinouts from another Sur-ron direct replacement controller (Sintech).
If I connect Halls and Throttle to the 9PIN connector and Ignition (3rd pin) to the 8PIN connector,
will it be enough to run it?
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Surron 9PIN.png (154.78 KiB) Viewed 859 times
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QS120/QS138 Geared + custom 8-62T #420/ 9-60T #428
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X-Nitro   10 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Feb 03 2022 8:57pm

Have you looked thru the Nucular owners thread?
viewtopic.php?t=97163
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sendler2112 » Feb 05 2022 10:30pm

What are the changes in the Sur Ron for 2022? I see everybody likes the new brakes. Is there a new fork? Is it a keeper? New seat. Better headset. Anything new about the X controller since it came out? Wheels? Tires?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Feb 12 2022 1:35am

If your looking for a a fat rear tire, the 18x4.10" dual purpose Kenda k270 is 3.95" wide on a 2.15" rim.
Fits well with 5mm of left rim offset and has little 8mm knobs, looking like a fat mtb tire on steroids.
The 100/18 size k270 has big ass 14mm knobs (250cc tire) and will be 4.15" mounted on 2.15", a good heavy tire for 10kw+ bikes.
Tires arranged from left 4.10", 100/90 and 3.00" sr244 on the right.
reardualp.JPG
Rear dual purpose
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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Feb 23 2022 8:43pm

X-Nitro wrote:
Feb 12 2022 1:35am
...a good heavy tire for 10kw+ bikes.
Looks pretty dope. I'm actually leaning the other way; I'm fine with the stock power but want to dramatically reduce the weight.

It's not hard to imagine a 26" fat-bike tubeless tire and rim could easily be be 5-7 pounds lighter than a 18" 4" mx tire/rim. Add that to the savings in the front, probably looking at dropping over 10 pounds. Perhaps closer to 15 if you go with carbon rims. For a bike that size that's a huge difference not to mention it's all rolling mass.

In-fact, I dream of having a custom carbon fiber frame built (or perhaps build it myself, I have a CNC machine large enough to make the forms). Very much like the aluminum but of course lighter.

I should also like to have a custom battery built. But not for more power/range like everyone else seems to prefer. It's possible to have a bit more range while dropping another 10-pounds off.

More places to save weight like carbon fiber handle bars and so on. Then you are getting the Sur Ron in the same weight range as a typical e-bike - but with a Sur Ron mid-drive.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ggHawk » Feb 25 2022 5:48pm

Super light is certainly very appealing. The techniques you mentioned to get there are of course time consuming and expensive... but may be very entertaining to you. You'd definitely end up with a very cool bike.
I generally ride my e-bike (luna X1) much more often than my sur-ron for mostly that reason (also for the extra exercise). But on some rides, traction is a big issue. Some steep hills are very traction challenged. The X1 and the stock sur-ron fail miserably. My mod'd sur-ron with rear Shinko 525 cheater, eats them up.
Of course, what we all desperately desire is new battery tech that reduces that weight dramatically. It seems like they've had very large improvements in the labs for so many years. It's depressing how long it takes to bring them to market.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Feb 25 2022 6:06pm

ggHawk wrote:
Feb 25 2022 5:48pm
Super light is certainly very appealing. The techniques you mentioned to get there are of course time consuming and expensive... but may be very entertaining to you. You'd definitely end up with a very cool bike.
I generally ride my e-bike (luna X1) much more often than my sur-ron for mostly that reason (also for the extra exercise). But on some rides, traction is a big issue. Some steep hills are very traction challenged. The X1 and the stock sur-ron fail miserably. My mod'd sur-ron with rear Shinko 525 cheater, eats them up.
Of course, what we all desperately desire is new battery tech that reduces that weight dramatically. It seems like they've had very large improvements in the labs for so many years. It's depressing how long it takes to bring them to market.
Yeah - I mean that is what I love about the Sur Ron is the power to weight ratio. But I got to say, charging downhill on my full-carbon Yeti is much more fun than on a Sur Ron. It's like an extension to my body versus feeling like riding a vehicle. Not gonna get that light anytime soon, but that is the direction I am going in.

But you can easily drop off 10-15 pounds of rotating mass right off the bat, and for about the same cost as a Nuke -- not even including a new pack.

And for less than hot-rodded power (controller + new pack), you could easily drop 20+ pounds. Because a smaller pack would cost significantly less than a hot-rodded pack and bike wheels aren't very expensive.

I've got a serious mountain in my backyard and I've never had a problem with climbing the steepest trails I've managed to find, so not an issue for me now and adding a 4+ fatty in the back at 8-12psi would only improve traction - considerably.

Also, I don't know what you weigh - but if I weighed twice as much then I probably wold need more power to get up the steep stuff.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Feb 25 2022 6:08pm

true words. light is key, light is awesome...
but....

a soft knoby tire that eats some extra battery and current rips like a train uphill in lose or muddy conditions

i try to cheat myself a bit with

upgrading upgrading upgrading -> 70kg surron but except of a little bit of handling it masters mostly everything

its a heavy ass surron....but its a suuuuuper lightweight Enduro.

the only real hard or non upgradable issue is the wobbling af swingarm. all tries i saw until now is extend but still same design.(without tubes to prevent flexing)

at the end: i love my surron, with big ass battery, big ass tires and recently with a new battery cover that fits an extender battery very nice :D
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Feb 25 2022 6:11pm

Merlin wrote:
Feb 25 2022 6:08pm
at the end: i love my surron, with big ass battery, big ass tires and recently with a new battery cover that fits an extender battery very nice :D
I'm not saying everyone should go lighter. Just explaining why that is the direction I'm headed in. I have plenty of fun ripping now, and lighter with more traction would only make it more fun to me.

Do what makes you happy. Adding any significant weight to the Sur Ron would ruin much of its' appeal to me.

I don't really want an "MX enduro" - I want a 'downhill enduro" and also be able to rip a bit going *up* the mountain.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Feb 25 2022 6:20pm

i dont say what anyone else have to do....

setup your own bike for your own riding style.

some want it as a "downhill" machine.
some circling around a track in sx style.
and some are Enduro riders that have a passion for 4-6h rides, digging thru new territories :D

theres no BEST Surron. Theres also not THE best MX Bike. Lets say all differnt classes. Try to fit YOUR Bike to YOUR needs. :bigthumb:

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Feb 25 2022 6:26pm

Merlin wrote:
Feb 25 2022 6:20pm
and some are Enduro riders that have a passion for 4-6h rides, digging thru new territories :D
I already do go on long rides - and dropping more weight would only extend range.

I"ve been to the top of the mountain which is 28 miles there and back and 6,000+ vertical feet.
Merlin wrote:
Feb 25 2022 6:20pm
theres no BEST Surron. Theres also not THE best MX Bike. Lets say all differnt classes. Try to fit YOUR Bike to YOUR needs.
:bigthumb:

I agree. If I lived where it was mostly flat, I would want more power. But, I just need to get to the top of the mountain and I can ride as hard as I want to down where being light and nimble pays.

I basically just need a "lift" like a chair lift in a downhill bike park.

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ggHawk   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ggHawk » Feb 26 2022 3:58pm

Very nice cover Merlin!
I too need extra range sometimes. Some of our rides are 70+ miles.
Some hills in Colorado are VERY steep, and often loose. Big soft knobs make a Big difference.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Feb 28 2022 11:59am

Merlin wrote:
Feb 25 2022 6:08pm
true words. light is key, light is awesome...
but....

a soft knoby tire that eats some extra battery and current rips like a train uphill in lose or muddy conditions

i try to cheat myself a bit with

upgrading upgrading upgrading -> 70kg surron but except of a little bit of handling it masters mostly everything

its a heavy ass surron....but its a suuuuuper lightweight Enduro.

the only real hard or non upgradable issue is the wobbling af swingarm. all tries i saw until now is extend but still same design.(without tubes to prevent flexing)

at the end: i love my surron, with big ass battery, big ass tires and recently with a new battery cover that fits an extender battery very nice :D
Sweet SurRon Merlin, that could sway certain people from buying full on electric dirt bikes like the Alta and KTM.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Feb 28 2022 12:11pm

4,5kwh under the hood :P

thats good for 60miles gnarly offroad :bigthumb:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by tdirider » Feb 28 2022 3:10pm

Hey guys, could you share some list of places in Europe that sell Sur Ron bikes and parts online / internationally?
Excluding UK because of Brexit tax rules of course :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Feb 28 2022 6:49pm

tdirider wrote:
Feb 28 2022 3:10pm
Hey guys, could you share some list of places in Europe that sell Sur Ron bikes and parts online / internationally?
Excluding UK because of Brexit tax rules of course :)
Good to know these guys, not in UK :thumb:
https://www.surronshop.com/
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