Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Oct 28 2021 2:28pm

Who is the troll here? The guy giving relevant and important information "me", who has experienced running from law enforcement multiple times, and also answers someone's question about how ebikes are being used in NYC.

Or the guy whos feelings are hurt because I dare run from the police and then goes ahead and posts showing his disagreement without any relevant information just with a rolling eyes smiley? Oh my, I ran from the police on an electric bike.

Like it or not, most of us are all riding illegal motorcycles in most places and talking about law enforcement is a very relevant topic. If you stop for police in NYC they will impound your bike, rape you with multiple tickets, especially driving with no insurance which you will lose your drivers license, etc. They may even lie and say you were recklessly driving which is a criminal charge, just like riding with no insurance is. You will get raped, you will get your bike impounded.

Or do you simply just do a quick 180 degree turn, and run off freely into the sunset and avoid all of this? You can even do this without them even knowing if you know they are trying to stop you if done smart.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Nov 01 2021 3:00pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Oct 26 2021 3:50pm
Rix wrote:
Oct 26 2021 1:42pm
But if you want to legally run it in full power mood on any roadway, highway or alleyway, then you will want to plate the surron, in Idaho, all you need is a Speedo, head light and tailight with break light, and horn. Thats it.
So basically all it needs is a break light added. What did the actual registration involve?
DMV inspection. I did mine at the DMV HQ off of State Street the last time I went through this process. My family tells me the DMV in Garden City can do the inspection also. I don't have any experience with the DMV in your neck of the woods.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 01 2021 3:37pm

Rix wrote:
Nov 01 2021 3:00pm
DMV inspection. I did mine at the DMV HQ off of State Street the last time I went through this process. My family tells me the DMV in Garden City can do the inspection also. I don't have any experience with the DMV in your neck of the woods.
Thanks Rix.

My DMV is only about 30 miles from there. But they insisted I had to have a Certificate of Origin.

What all did you have to show them? I assume some form of ownership or proof of purchase? Insurance?

Perhaps my DMV is more familiar with these type of vehicles now, and if not it's good that I can tell them it's been done.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Nov 01 2021 6:25pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Nov 01 2021 3:37pm
Rix wrote:
Nov 01 2021 3:00pm
DMV inspection. I did mine at the DMV HQ off of State Street the last time I went through this process. My family tells me the DMV in Garden City can do the inspection also. I don't have any experience with the DMV in your neck of the woods.
Thanks Rix.

My DMV is only about 30 miles from there. But they insisted I had to have a Certificate of Origin.

What all did you have to show them? I assume some form of ownership or proof of purchase? Insurance?

Perhaps my DMV is more familiar with these type of vehicles now, and if not it's good that I can tell them it's been done.
I see your problem now. So I plated my 08 KTM SXF250 back in 2013, and I did have the MSO and was able to insure it because it had a 17digit VIN. I have not actually tried to plate my SurRon. I apologize for the misrepresentation. I figured the process would be the same, but I never considered the VIN and MSO issue.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 01 2021 7:33pm

Hey fellow surronsters, if someone has 21/18 wheel setup, what's your experience with range and power decrease, is it really noticeable? I have Nuc 24f with 60v/52ah battery, 54 sprocket fwiw. Also I guess I have to run lifting linkage to keep the right geometry?
Thanks!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Nov 01 2021 7:41pm

I have a 21/19 setup (real MX rims, not the OEM 19" rim.) A wide 19" tire is as tall as a 21" tire so it keeps the bike level. I don't think you can get an 18" tire w/ a diameter as large as a 19". Not one that will still fit inside the swingarm at least. So, yes, I think you'd need a rear raising link if you wanted to keep the steering geometry the same.

Edit: I don't really notice a power decrease. I'm running a 60T rear. W/ a Nuc24F it does throttle wheelies at will. Still goes plenty fast so I'll replace w/ a 64T someday.
Don't know about the range difference. I don't think the wheels make too big a difference. I ride the crap out of it offroad w/ the Nuc24F so that's hard on range no matter how you cut it. I'm also running TuBliss in the rear w/ low pressure. That probably makes a much larger difference in range than the wheel diameter.
Surron (heavily modded), X160 (kid's), '21 Freeride E-XC

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Nov 01 2021 7:57pm

Want to Buy: stock Sur-Ron 19" front wheel in new or good condition shipped to 24060 USA ..

lots of ppl upgrade their wheels so if anyone wants to sell me a stock front wheel plz let me know:)
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 01 2021 11:38pm

Rix wrote:
Nov 01 2021 6:25pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Nov 01 2021 3:37pm
Rix wrote:
Nov 01 2021 3:00pm
DMV inspection. I did mine at the DMV HQ off of State Street the last time I went through this process. My family tells me the DMV in Garden City can do the inspection also. I don't have any experience with the DMV in your neck of the woods.
Thanks Rix.

My DMV is only about 30 miles from there. But they insisted I had to have a Certificate of Origin.

What all did you have to show them? I assume some form of ownership or proof of purchase? Insurance?

Perhaps my DMV is more familiar with these type of vehicles now, and if not it's good that I can tell them it's been done.
I see your problem now. So I plated my 08 KTM SXF250 back in 2013, and I did have the MSO and was able to insure it because it had a 17digit VIN. I have not actually tried to plate my SurRon. I apologize for the misrepresentation. I figured the process would be the same, but I never considered the VIN and MSO issue.
No problem and thanks for the explanation! Makes sense.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 02 2021 1:49pm

smdub wrote:
Nov 01 2021 7:41pm
I have a 21/19 setup (real MX rims, not the OEM 19" rim.) A wide 19" tire is as tall as a 21" tire so it keeps the bike level. I don't think you can get an 18" tire w/ a diameter as large as a 19". Not one that will still fit inside the swingarm at least. So, yes, I think you'd need a rear raising link if you wanted to keep the steering geometry the same.

Edit: I don't really notice a power decrease. I'm running a 60T rear. W/ a Nuc24F it does throttle wheelies at will. Still goes plenty fast so I'll replace w/ a 64T someday.
Don't know about the range difference. I don't think the wheels make too big a difference. I ride the crap out of it offroad w/ the Nuc24F so that's hard on range no matter how you cut it. I'm also running TuBliss in the rear w/ low pressure. That probably makes a much larger difference in range than the wheel diameter.
Thanks m8, that's very helpful!
I guess 54T will not be enough for those large wheel, so have to get at least 60T. Btw what's your top speed with the current setup, I understand it's not the priority, but just for the sake of it :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Nov 02 2021 2:26pm

I think it goes almost 50mph w/ my setup. The larger wheel diameter and sprocket somewhat cancel each other. The 72V battery ups that by ~20% and field weakening w/ the Nuc 24F can take it even farther if enabled. I never go that fast on single track.

My rear tire is prob 10% taller than stock. So would requite a 10% larger sprocket to keep everything equal. 48T -> 53T.
Surron (heavily modded), X160 (kid's), '21 Freeride E-XC

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 02 2021 8:15pm

smdub wrote:
Nov 02 2021 2:26pm
I think it goes almost 50mph w/ my setup. The larger wheel diameter and sprocket somewhat cancel each other. The 72V battery ups that by ~20% and field weakening w/ the Nuc 24F can take it even farther if enabled. I never go that fast on single track.

My rear tire is prob 10% taller than stock. So would requite a 10% larger sprocket to keep everything equal. 48T -> 53T.
Thanks! 50mph is plenty. And I guess 60T is the way to go if I want to save the same torque I have now with 54T.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 02 2021 8:18pm

Have another question before finally pulling the trigger on the 21/18 setup: what rear rim size is preferable for the Sur ron, more heavier but also stickier 2.15'' or lighter and more agile 1.85''?
FWIW, I will probably go with Dunlop MX33 90/100-18 for heavier off-road and Shinko SR241 3.5-18 for trails and pavement.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Nov 02 2021 8:49pm

A 3.5" SR251 is a *TIGHT* fit. You will have to dish the wheel a lot. That MX33 is even wider. You're going to need to shave the right side knobs off.
Why not a 19" rear? Any MX tire will be avail in that size (of course) and the SR251 is also avail in 19s.
Surron (heavily modded), X160 (kid's), '21 Freeride E-XC

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 02 2021 9:44pm

smdub wrote:
Nov 02 2021 8:49pm
A 3.5" SR251 is a *TIGHT* fit. You will have to dish the wheel a lot. That MX33 is even wider. You're going to need to shave the right side knobs off.
Why not a 19" rear? Any MX tire will be avail in that size (of course) and the SR251 is also avail in 19s.
Now I'm confused :(
I thought 3.5''-18 pretty much equals 90/100-18 and 90/100-18 is what Woodys Wheel Works recommends for his 18'' wheel. He even said no offset needed for SR241, and just 1/8'' for MX33. Shaving the knobs is not an option for me btw.
As to why the 18'', mainly because it's smaller and lighter, and with lifting link it's easier to have the bike's geometry in check, but that's just from the research and not first hand experience.
https://chargedcycleworks.com/pages/sur ... nd-weights. here's also some info about fitment, and it seems like mx33-18 should fit, probably with some dishing and footpeg adjustment/removal, though.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 02 2021 9:56pm

Speaking of not wanting to shave knobs off - The number one thing I wish for my Sur Ron is a wider swing arm. I want to run 4" or even 5" bicycle fat tires.

I've seen a few like this:
https://www.surronpitstop.com/forum/com ... -and-seats

But as far as I can tell, I can't actually buy one anywhere. Anyone out there know a solution? Anyone hack an off-the-shelf dirt bike swing arm to fit or something?

Fabricating one would be a really fun project, but I don't think I have time to get to it in the foreseeable future.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 02 2021 11:37pm

smdub wrote:
Nov 01 2021 7:41pm
I'm also running TuBliss in the rear w/ low pressure. That probably makes a much larger difference in range than the wheel diameter.
I've started researching Nuetech TuBliss and it seems they are lighter than standard tube not to mention HD ones? How do you feel about them, are they worth it? Is it hard to switch tires when running tubliss?

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Chalo » Nov 03 2021 12:36am

SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 02 2021 11:37pm
smdub wrote:
Nov 01 2021 7:41pm
I'm also running TuBliss in the rear w/ low pressure. That probably makes a much larger difference in range than the wheel diameter.
I've started researching Nuetech TuBliss and it seems they are lighter than standard tube not to mention HD ones? How do you feel about them, are they worth it? Is it hard to switch tires when running tubliss?
It's horseshit; don't trouble yourself about it.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SolarBeaver » Nov 03 2021 1:18am

Chalo wrote:
Nov 03 2021 12:36am
SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 02 2021 11:37pm
smdub wrote:
Nov 01 2021 7:41pm
I'm also running TuBliss in the rear w/ low pressure. That probably makes a much larger difference in range than the wheel diameter.
I've started researching Nuetech TuBliss and it seems they are lighter than standard tube not to mention HD ones? How do you feel about them, are they worth it? Is it hard to switch tires when running tubliss?
It's horseshit; don't trouble yourself about it.
Why so? On paper it seems great...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Nov 03 2021 1:24am

SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 02 2021 9:44pm
smdub wrote:
Nov 02 2021 8:49pm
A 3.5" SR251 is a *TIGHT* fit. You will have to dish the wheel a lot. That MX33 is even wider. You're going to need to shave the right side knobs off.
Why not a 19" rear? Any MX tire will be avail in that size (of course) and the SR251 is also avail in 19s.
Now I'm confused :(
I thought 3.5''-18 pretty much equals 90/100-18 and 90/100-18 is what Woodys Wheel Works recommends for his 18'' wheel. He even said no offset needed for SR241, and just 1/8'' for MX33. Shaving the knobs is not an option for me btw.
As to why the 18'', mainly because it's smaller and lighter, and with lifting link it's easier to have the bike's geometry in check, but that's just from the research and not first hand experience.
https://chargedcycleworks.com/pages/sur ... nd-weights. here's also some info about fitment, and it seems like mx33-18 should fit, probably with some dishing and footpeg adjustment/removal, though.
Well the 3.00x18" shinko 244 is 3.5" wide on 2.15 rim so you cant trust manufactures sizing, they are all different in reality.
That combo fits fine on a centered rim.
I see just over 4" tire clearance in the swingarm, dished wheel required.
Move the bottom kickstand spring anchor to the top & use a shorter bolt for the bottom to gain more clearance there.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 03 2021 1:25am

SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 03 2021 1:18am
Chalo wrote:
Nov 03 2021 12:36am
SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 02 2021 11:37pm
smdub wrote:
Nov 01 2021 7:41pm
I'm also running TuBliss in the rear w/ low pressure. That probably makes a much larger difference in range than the wheel diameter.
I've started researching Nuetech TuBliss and it seems they are lighter than standard tube not to mention HD ones? How do you feel about them, are they worth it? Is it hard to switch tires when running tubliss?
It's horseshit; don't trouble yourself about it.
Why so? On paper it seems great...
Other people report liking them in this thread. Maybe try searching for more opinions?

Personally I've been running tubeless (not TuBliss) for years and couldn't be happier.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Chalo » Nov 03 2021 1:50am

SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 03 2021 1:18am
Chalo wrote:
Nov 03 2021 12:36am
SolarBeaver wrote:
Nov 02 2021 11:37pm
I've started researching Nuetech TuBliss and it seems they are lighter than standard tube not to mention HD ones? How do you feel about them, are they worth it? Is it hard to switch tires when running tubliss?
It's horseshit; don't trouble yourself about it.
Why so? On paper it seems great...
Adding tires to a tire makes it heavier and slower and more complicated to service. Tubeless is already a non-benefit, trading fixing flats in the field for dicking around with your tires constantly and making a huge mess.

It's like folks assume nobody has been thinking about these things for the last 150 years.

Whatever you think is the awesome new thing for your bike? It's been tried. A long, long time ago, and it was found to be lacking/sucking. That's why your bike didn't already have it.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 03 2021 1:56am

Chalo wrote:
Nov 03 2021 1:50am
Tubeless is already a non-benefit, trading fixing flats in the field for dicking around with your tires constantly and making a huge mess.
To use your vernacular that is horseshit. Sounds like someone who doesn't have much experience going tubeless. You can't buy a high-end bicycle these days that tubeless isn't standard.

I was going through inner tubes like clean socks - tearing stem after stem. Now I haven't needed a single tube in years, and I've only had to add some fluid once in over two years from the initial conversion.

Plus, tubeless can seal punctures on the trail. There are many many advantages. Another is reduced spinning mass and allows for lower pressure than you can run on a tube.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Chalo » Nov 03 2021 2:00am

Dude, I have had at least a dozen coworkers for years now, who constantly dick around with their tubeless horseshit and make huge messes. These are pro mechanics! I can't even imagine the abominations that The Public come up with.

You're in denial. In twenty years you're going to be making fun of yourself for having fallen for it.

P.S. - The lowest pressure you can run in a tubed or tubeless tire is what keeps the rim from bashing the ground. That the same pressure either way. Stop repeating lies somebody told you.
Last edited by Chalo on Nov 03 2021 2:04am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 03 2021 2:03am

Chalo wrote:
Nov 03 2021 2:00am
Dude, I have had at least a dozen coworkers for years now, who constantly dick around with their tubeless horseshit and make huge messes. These are pro mechanics! I can't even imagine the abominations that The Public come up with.

You're in denial. In twenty years you're going to be making fun of yourself for having fallen for it.
Dude - just cause you must of been around people who must not of known what they are doing.

My Yeti - cost nearly $10k came tubeless. No issue with it in years. Only one squirt from a syringe needed. No big mess or deal.

My Sur Ron has had no issues with tubeless in years. Same thing - only one squirt from a syringe.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Chalo » Nov 03 2021 2:06am

I deal with ex-tubeless stuff on the daily. Covered with heavy, sticky scabs. The tires will barely tear off the rim. No thanks.

I stand by my prediction that you'll make fun of yourself for buying the hype.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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