chinese e scooter missing battery pack

jaye50

100 µW
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
9
hi guys, i'm new to the forum, and relatively new to e scooters. i won a bid on a storage unit at auction and a chinese electric scooter was one of the items in the unit. but the battery pack was missing. the scooter has absolutely no english markings except for on the side it has "xspeed sansi" every other single marking is in chinese. is anyone here familiar with this brand of scooter? does anyone know what type battery pack it uses? or even how many batteries should be in the pack? it looks relatively new, and the tires don't look used.

i would greatly appreciate any help that can be given, i'll try to post some pictures. thanks again.

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That looks like one of the mid size ones. Prob was 48v lead acid, but maybe 60v. You could start with 3 lead acid for 36v, and see if it runs, then try 4. Better than starting high and working down.
 
i think it's 48... that's what the charger is rated... not sure if it's the charger that came with the scooter tho... or an aftermarket one... altho the writing on it is in chinese also.... the charger is marked 48v 12ah... so that means that i need (4) 12v 12ah batteries?? and should the batteries be wired in "series"?? wow... i've been doing research for the last 3 days... and i think i'm beginning to understand the lingo.. lol i just don't want to make a mistake and ruin what has the potential to be a great buy... and one more question... if i get (4) new batteries how long should i charge them initially??
 
The AH capacity of the batteries isn't tied to the charger. It's odd to see the output labeled "AH" though, instead of "A" (for amps). Also 12 amps is kind of a high charger output, especially for smaller batteries. You may just be seeing what kind of batteries came OEM with the scooter, with the actual charger output more like 54(?) volts and 4 or so amps... If you can fit four, say, 15-20AH 12V batteries in there, that should be fine. And yes, they'd be wired in series, making the voltage 48 (actually more like 53 when charged) and the capacity whatever it says on EACH battery (not all of them added together). Make sure the batteries are all identical, at least in voltage and capacity. You might want to look for cheap, small SLA UPS type batteries in the 12AH area to start, then if the scooter actually works well you can get gel or AGM batteries. Or if you want real capacity and life, lithium cells. I suggest you start cheap, though, as Chinese scooters are NOT known for quality or reliability...
 
Sometimes SLA chargers are marked with the Ah rather than the A, because the SLA don't handle overcurrent during charging well (they vent, which dries them out and they fail). So if they print the Ah on the charger the end user just matches the one with the other and no worries about having the wrong one or figuring out what A charger works with what battery without blowing it up :oops: .

It's not universal, and it's not a perfect solution, but it helps. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
Sometimes SLA chargers are marked with the Ah rather than the A, because the SLA don't handle overcurrent during charging well (they vent, which dries them out and they fail). So if they print the Ah on the charger the end user just matches the one with the other and no worries about having the wrong one or figuring out what A charger works with what battery without blowing it up :oops: .

It's not universal, and it's not a perfect solution, but it helps. ;)

I've never seen that, but that may be because I've only owned one really cheap Chinese scooter - an XM-3000. I also owned a lovely Italian Oxygen Lepton, and a not so lovely ZEV 5000LA (Chinese but not cheap).
 
Re the battery size, you could go a little bigger, say 14ah, and it won't hurt anything if that's what's around. 10ah would work in a pinch, but would die really quickly anyways from the loads, separate from the charger thing.
 
there are plenty of 12v 12ah 4 pack sales on ebay so i think i'll grab one of those... the 10ah are cheaper... but i'm glad you told me that they would die much faster... so i'll just bite the bullet and get what's needed... i live about 8 miles in the country... away from town... 16 miles round trip plus whatever riding around in town i'd have to do... so i'm not sure just how practical an e scooter will be... but it's a nice little project... not sure what i'm going to do with it... my granddaughter is too young for it... but i'll let you guys know what happens when i get the batteries... you don't know how grateful i am for the help.... again... thanks much...
 
jaye50 said:
live about 8 miles in the country... away from town... 16 miles round trip plus whatever riding around in town i'd have to do...
Better bring your charger, and let it charge up while you're at your destination, or you won't get back home. ;) (you might not anyway, depending on terrain and wind and speeds ridden at. Based on typical SLA performance, I'd guesstimate around you'd generally need 1Ah per mile, or more).
 
Yup. You either need to find a reliable place to charge in town for at least an hour, or just test the thing with the SLA batteries and then get a larger capacity lithium pack and charger. Given that, if the 10AH batteries are a lot cheaper, you may want to get them. You can always use whatever SLA batteries you get to later make a home power outage UPS, to run lights and maybe a TV or fan...
 
jaye50 said:
is anyone here familiar with this brand of scooter? does anyone know what type battery pack it uses? or even how many batteries should be in the pack? it looks relatively new, and the tires don't look used.

i would greatly appreciate any help that can be given, i'll try to post some pictures. thanks again.

First thing: Open the scooter, you'll have to remove both the rear plastics and the front ones. Pretty straight forward to do, just a few screws to remove.

Secondly: look at the sticker on the controller box (it should be an aluminum box with many wires, usually located under the seat, at the very rear of the machine: the supported voltages should be written on it.

Third: look at the sticker on the DC/DC converter (this device's purpose is to convert the 48 or 60V of the battery into 12V for the lights, the horn, etc). It is a smaller aluminum box, with 3 wires (most of the time yellow/red/black) usually located on the front of the scooter, behing the front lights: the supported voltages should be written on it too.

Take the lowest voltage of the two as your reference. For example, lets say that your controller can support 60V but your DC/DC converter can support only 48V, then you'll have to find a 48V battery.

Once you'll have the voltage you need, then come back here and I'll tell you the next steps. If possible, post some pictures of the controller and the DC/DC converter to show me just so I can make sure :)

Don't purchase batteries just yet since you're not sure of anything, and don't expect to use this charger, you'll probably better purchasing a new one, those things are cheap and easy to find anyway. There's no point in guessing your scooter specs, especially when it takes just a few dozens of minutes to actually check them.
 
i'm a jr college basketball coach and we're deeply involved in preparing for conference playoffs right now... so i'm busy up the ying yang... lol.... but just as soon as i get a free moment i'll post those pics of the controller and the converter for you... i took the trim off and the seat out as soon as i got it... and i think i remember the markings on the controller being in chinese also... but i'll check and see... thanks for your reply...
 
well... we lost in the conference playoffs... and then the next month or so was tied up in recruiting for next season... but we've finally got the team set... so i find myself with time on my hands... i got the batteries... 12v 12ah... four of them... but when putting them in i found that whoever had the scooter did some creative splicing... he has the charger port wires spliced into the supply line to the controller for some reason... and when i hooked the batteries up in series and plugged them into the connector that's supposed to plug into the power pack... absolutely nothing happens...

when the charger is hooked into the charger port and plugged into a power source... the scooter comes to life... i can't find an exact schematic of this particular scooter (sansi)... but every wiring diagram i see shows every component of the scooter having it's own dedicated lines coming out of the controller... i have no idea why they spliced the charging port into the main power lines...

anyway the scooter is at a friends now... i took it there as i felt two heads were better than one... and he has a electronics background... but it turns out that when it comes to expertise... everyone is a legend in his own mind... he's stumped also... and then to avoid looking as if he didn't know... he started coming up with some truly off the wall theories... so i shut it down for the day... when i go back tomorrow i'll take some pics of the wiring and splices...

again... thanks guys
 
Was the charger installed on the scooter? Maybe someone attempted to implement an onboard charger, and ended up with a setup that requires the charger to be continuously in the circuit...
 
no... not installed on the scooter... it's separate and still connects through the female charger port...

the entire battery pack apparatus was gone... and the power plug inserted in the compartment through a hole cut in the wall... even the lock apparatus is gone and disconnected... as i said... i'll try to get some pics... but do you know of a site where i can see some pics of just how the battery pack is "supposed" to be hooked up?
 
If the scooter comes on when the charger gets plugged in, then something is wrong with how the batteries are hooked up. Did you get the series connections right to where it's putting out the right pack voltage before it's connected to the controller?
And it's not anything special having the charger spliced into the mains. The charger has to connect to the pack at the same spots. I would guess the drawback would be it might be running thru the main circuit breaker now, so wouldn't charge if the switch is flipped. (You found the main circuit breaker under the seat somewhere maybe?)
 
jaye50 said:
no... not installed on the scooter... it's separate and still connects through the female charger port...

the entire battery pack apparatus was gone... and the power plug inserted in the compartment through a hole cut in the wall... even the lock apparatus is gone and disconnected... as i said... i'll try to get some pics... but do you know of a site where i can see some pics of just how the battery pack is "supposed" to be hooked up?

I don't know if there is a site specifically for your scooter, so I drew up a simplified schematics for you:
Untitled.png

This is the bare minimum you'll need for connecting your battery to the controller. If everthing works when the charger is plugged it means that all the other stuff is already working properly, so no need to check the other wires right now.

So check that everything is wired according to this drawing.
You might not have a circuit breaker, some scooter are not equipped with those, but most of them are. If you do have one, you can make sure it is not faulty just by plugging the 2 wires that are passing through it both on the same side (doesn't matter which side), in order to bypass the breaker temporarily.
 
if it has a 48v charger you can get a 14S lipo battery. its a direct replacement for 4 lead acids.
just make sure it can handle the load. so no aliexpress batteries.
 
Dui said:
jaye50 said:
no... not installed on the scooter... it's separate and still connects through the female charger port...

the entire battery pack apparatus was gone... and the power plug inserted in the compartment through a hole cut in the wall... even the lock apparatus is gone and disconnected... as i said... i'll try to get some pics... but do you know of a site where i can see some pics of just how the battery pack is "supposed" to be hooked up?

I don't know if there is a site specifically for your scooter, so I drew up a simplified schematics for you:
Untitled.png

This is the bare minimum you'll need for connecting your battery to the controller. If everthing works when the charger is plugged it means that all the other stuff is already working properly, so no need to check the other wires right now.

So check that everything is wired according to this drawing.
You might not have a circuit breaker, some scooter are not equipped with those, but most of them are. If you do have one, you can make sure it is not faulty just by plugging the 2 wires that are passing through it both on the same side (doesn't matter which side), in order to bypass the breaker temporarily.

ok... that simplifies it a lot... there is no circuit breaker on the circuit... but that's not a biggie... i see that the charger port is pretty much wired into the main hot and negative... and that they all go into the speed controller together... i'm going to give this a try... and if i don't get power i'm going to get a new speed controller... thanx...
 
one more question... how do i tell the wattage of the scoot motor... i'm going to buy a new controller... but don't i need to buy a controller that matches the scooter motor wattage?
 
jaye50 said:
one more question... how do i tell the wattage of the scoot motor... i'm going to buy a new controller... but don't i need to buy a controller that matches the scooter motor wattage?
It doesn't have to match, but if the controller is rated too high, you could overheat and fry the motor. The existing controller should have markings on it. That would be a good way to tell. Most of those style scooters can handle 1000W.
 
fechter said:
It doesn't have to match, but if the controller is rated too high, you could overheat and fry the motor.

Unless your controller is programmable, in which case you can tell it the max battery and phase amps to use for your particular application.

M
 
you guys just don't know how much i appreciate your help... this is a beautiful scoot... has absolutely no wear... and i got it for a song... it's destined for my granddaughter when she reaches 14... from what i'm reading top speed is about 20-25mph... which should be safe for her... and it's a full size scoot so it should be with her through her teens... and even go to college with her... one thing... with the proliferation of scooters... i'm surprised that there aren't more repair shops... i live close to a college town... (ga southern university) and i can't believe that there is not one scooter repair shop in the whole town... and only one dealer... a honda dealer that sells scoots as an afterthought.... :lol:

anyway... i'll let you guys know if i fail or succeed... the parts should be here in about a week..
 
jaye50 said:
ok... that simplifies it a lot... there is no circuit breaker on the circuit... but that's not a biggie... i see that the charger port is pretty much wired into the main hot and negative... and that they all go into the speed controller together... i'm going to give this a try... and if i don't get power i'm going to get a new speed controller... thanx...

Does the motor turn when plugged to the charger?
If yes, then the motor controller has no problem.

Did you measure your battery's voltages?
Can you provide some pictures of what you've done so far?
 
... reading top speed is about 20-25mph... which should be safe for her...

Hi,
I have a similar scooter, and I would like to say that this speed is far from safe. Keep in mind that if car or people pop out suddenly in front of you, you can't stop without falling. I had an incident last summer and from that moment I'm always with a jacket with protectors, special gloves and knee-protectors (lightweight for a bicycle). It's a little funny for the people around, but better for me :mrgreen:
 
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