RIPPY SCOOT

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.
Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Hillhater » Oct 16 2021 4:52pm

RIPPERTON wrote:
Oct 15 2021 8:48pm
Lol click on the map, its off Coffs Harbour at the time of writing this.
Wow ! Spookey.
Reading this at 08:30 Sunday after a trip to the beach at Batemans bay to spot Wales with Binoculars.
And where is that ship at this very moment ?.......just off Batemans Bay !! :shock:
So litterally just a few (100) kms away from me !
Wish i could say i saw it , but i think its too far off shore even for bino’s to spot it.
..just another of lifes scary coincidences ?
It will be interesting to see how long between docking and landing on your doorstep .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Oct 17 2021 12:35am

Shes huggin the corner down near Mallacoota only 10 miles off shore.
StarMax said it was docking in Sydney but straight to Melbourne.
Cant see where next port is. Think the cells will get trucked up to Sydney.

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Oct 17 2021 8:31pm

Why am I obsessed with this ship. found itinerary.
It goes from Taiwan to Melbourne, THEN to Sydney, then to Brisbane........ :confused:
It just does this same route over and over, round and round.
Attachments
20211018_122410.jpg
20211018_122410.jpg (553.67 KiB) Viewed 681 times

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Oct 18 2021 2:46am

Shes had to go up the bloody Yarra how annoying.
Attachments
YARRA.jpg
YARRA.jpg (314.78 KiB) Viewed 669 times

User avatar
markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12306
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Canada and the USA

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by markz » Oct 18 2021 3:14am

How dirty are the waters there?

RIPPERTON wrote:
Oct 18 2021 2:46am
Shes had to go up the bloody Yarra how annoying.

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Oct 18 2021 3:24am

markz wrote:
Oct 18 2021 3:14am
How dirty are the waters there?
Well the Lebs go down there for a bath :lol:
But seriously, Most ships wont take on ballast water in a harbour cause its putrid.
They wait till they are in open seas. Thats how the Golden Ray capsized in Brunswick. She didnt have enough ballast water on board and went round a turn too fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVxuWOgcZHk

User avatar
jonescg   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4010
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by jonescg » Nov 07 2021 8:15pm

Hey Danny! I just happened to check in on Endless-sphere for the first time in a long while. Great to see another build happening.
I did try to buy LG cells, but got stuffed around by an Alibaba vendor who eventually refunded me. Seems they take your money and then go looking for cells. Once they decide they can't find them, they ask if you want something completely different instead...

In the end I opted for cylindrical cells, and that's been a bit of a journey, but just like my pouch cell development, is progressively getting better and better.

Over on the AEVA forum, Luke Kellett (necrogt) is building a battery using these large LG-like cells and is potting them into heatsinks which are cooled from a chill-plate below. He used the screw termination busbars system I used on all my pouch cell packs and it's looking pretty good.

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Hillhater » Nov 08 2021 1:42am

Rippy, ... have those cells been delivered yet ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 08 2021 1:56am

Hey Chris, thanks good feedback.
Im going to try an acetal chill plate on the aluminium busbars.
With close to 300km range they could get warm. The hub motor will need ventilating.
Ive checked with Toll and the cells have cleared customs and are just waiting for the courier to pick them up.
They probably only have one courier. I offered to pick them up from the depot but said tat wasnt possible.

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 08 2021 2:20am

RIPPERTON wrote:
Oct 01 2021 4:52pm
Rear brake line is piggy backed onto front brake master cylinder so both front and rear brakes are operated by one lever.
I really wouldn't do that if I were you. You'll have no way to control the repartition of braking power between front and back, it is likely that too much pressure will be applied on the rear wheel brake leading it to lock. Pressure will go where it's easier to go and you can't be sure that it will be the same today than whatever it was yesterday (a grippy piston, some slight bottleneck in a brake line, whatever).
Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Regen is overrated, it doesn't do all that much for range, and it tends to mess up the batteries after a while (even though your battery chemistry is a bit more tolerant to fast charge). You'll have plenty of range already with your gigantic battery so there's no real need for it anyway. My suggestion is to keep the original brake system and not use the regen, or maybe a slight slide regen (regen automatically activated on throttle release, simulating engine braking).
Don't sacrifice your safety for the sake of using a gadget.

That being said, now that I think about it, you could just use the pressure transducer on the regular rear brake line (meaning you connect everything the same way it was from factory, then just add the transducer directly on the rear brake line. When pressing the brake lever you'll use both the mechanical brake and the regen, and then maybe you could get a decent compromize by fiddling with the transducer voltage thresholds until you get mostly regen and few mechanical brake. Then later if the transduccer fail you still have the mechanical brake working anyway.
Hopefully my explanation make sense?
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 08 2021 2:42am

Dui
Regen is over rated untill you start using it, ALL THE TIME.
Regen is the primary service brake and as experienced in my Daihatsu Mira, regen extended range by 22%.
If you dont get 22% range extension, youre doing it wrong. Then obviously its over rated.
Both front and rear calipers have double pistons ie they are the same size hydraulically.
The travel of the lever has doubled ie it feels soft and comes further into the bars but thats not bothering me right now as I wont be using the brake to slow the bike, only to hold it still at the lights.
Separating the front and rear brakes again and fitting the trans to the rear system is the second option and yes I could tune the regen to come in before the disc.

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 08 2021 8:58pm

RIPPERTON wrote:
Nov 08 2021 2:42am
Dui
Regen is over rated untill you start using it, ALL THE TIME.
Regen is the primary service brake and as experienced in my Daihatsu Mira, regen extended range by 22%.
If you dont get 22% range extension, youre doing it wrong. Then obviously its over rated.
You compare a car and a motorcycle, that doesn't make much sense. Regen on a car is much more effective, because all the mass transfers to the front, where the powertrain usually is. On a motorcycle the powertrain is attached to the rear wheel, so you can't get lots of regen without locking the wheel at some point.
Just ask around, the typical gain in autonomy is closer to 5-8% on two wheelers, and that's kinda generous. I have used it and I have friends using it too, for quite some time now :wink:
RIPPERTON wrote:
Nov 08 2021 2:42am
Both front and rear calipers have double pistons ie they are the same size hydraulically.
The travel of the lever has doubled ie it feels soft and comes further into the bars but thats not bothering me right now as I wont be using the brake to slow the bike, only to hold it still at the lights.
Problem is that there's no way to adjust brake repartition. On a 2 wheeler you want most of the braking force to go to the front, at the very least 70%. The rear brake purpose is mostly to balance the bike, not really to slow it down. That's especially true if this will be your emergency brake, you need the front brake to be as powerful as can be.

If you want to go that route and not change the current way its' wired, then you should at least install some kind of pressure regulator to the rear line to adjust the brake repartition. I suppose you can find something compatible from a car, they do have that kind of devices.
Just some friendly advice, don't take it wrong, I'm only trying to help keep you safe :wink:
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Elektrosherpa   100 W

100 W
Posts: 286
Joined: Feb 07 2021 8:19am

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Elektrosherpa » Nov 09 2021 6:01pm

RIPPERTON wrote:
Nov 08 2021 2:42am
Both front and rear calipers have double pistons ie they are the same size hydraulically.
Then chances are that you will overbrake the rear if you put them together.
The first attempts to control front and rear brakes with ONE lever
(as far as I remember in the 1980s by MotoGuzzi),
was done simply by using bigger pistons in front,
in order to have higher braking power there.
My Build (Bultaco Sherpa T350 -> QS138H70) :
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=110352

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12268
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Hillhater » Nov 09 2021 8:10pm

Rippy,..
Does the Rego inspection check for scooters have a brake % test ...like they do with cars ?
If so , there will be a minimum % figure for the rear that you have to meet
..it may be useful to know !
And , yes, inline brake pressure proportioning valves are common.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 09 2021 11:42pm

typical gain in autonomy is closer to 5-8% on two wheelers....

Well Il be able to tell you soon because............
They have arrived
took 7 weeks.
Attachments
20211110_150805.jpg
20211110_150805.jpg (1.93 MiB) Viewed 514 times
20211110_151157.jpg
20211110_151157.jpg (1.71 MiB) Viewed 514 times

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 09 2021 11:46pm

LOL with 65kg of LiPo in the middle of the Scoot and an 8 foot tall Yowie sitting on it and you still think Im going to lock the rear wheel with regen........ :lol: or disc brakes for that matter.
This is me before I shaved
Attachments
gigantopithecus.jpg
gigantopithecus.jpg (84.89 KiB) Viewed 513 times
Last edited by RIPPERTON on Nov 10 2021 12:02am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 09 2021 11:58pm

Cells are exactly 300mm long, body and crimp without tabs.
95mm wide with the crimps squished.
11.6mm thick.
741gr.
Tabs are 20mm x 45mm
$34.40 AUD shipped

dominik h   100 W

100 W
Posts: 193
Joined: Jul 24 2021 2:12am

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by dominik h » Nov 10 2021 6:29am

I have a 72kg Li-NMC Pack in my E-Rider Thunder / Masini Extremo rebuild.
The wheelbase had to be lengthend 3cm to fit the 21S5P power pouch cell pack.
My single 20Ah cell is 367 x 122 x 9mm, with a welded screw terminal on each side of the cell.

I use regen with up to 50A charge current without any issues.
100A are also possible without locking the rear whell in dry conditions. :wink:
Perfect would be to use variable regen with a second throttle or a thumb throttle.

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 10 2021 6:31pm

These 2 blocks are going to fit in but only just, more like shoe horned.
This pack is going to take ages to build. Just cell prep alone is 2 days.
Each cell is wrapped in celophane and each tab must be shortened from 20mm to 10mm.
The cap screw heads will locate in the holes in the acetal end frames but the cells will support themselves weight wise.
Attachments
20211111_102553.jpg
20211111_102553.jpg (2.21 MiB) Viewed 474 times
20211111_102728.jpg
20211111_102728.jpg (3.14 MiB) Viewed 474 times
20211111_102748.jpg
20211111_102748.jpg (3.53 MiB) Viewed 474 times
20211111_102820.jpg
20211111_102820.jpg (3 MiB) Viewed 474 times

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12708
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 10 2021 6:56pm

Would you please post some additional pics of the battery pack in the Battery section? (viewforum.php?f=14), and each of the components? I think a lot of builders here would benefit from seeing the tab-clamps.

Did you buy them, or build them? Very nicely done...

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 10 2021 8:41pm

RIPPERTON wrote:
Nov 09 2021 11:46pm
LOL with 65kg of LiPo in the middle of the Scoot and an 8 foot tall Yowie sitting on it and you still think Im going to lock the rear wheel with regen........ :lol: or disc brakes for that matter.
This is me before I shaved
You sure can!
I happen to know, I crashed once because of that. :roll:
And that time, we were two people on the bike (myself, 95kg and my wife, about half of that :lol: )
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 10 2021 9:04pm

You will have to speak for yourself Dui and you might not believe this but even a moderately talented racer can apply the front or rear brake mid turn whilst the bike is on a 50 degree angle without crashing. Its all about feel.
Ive been riding for 50 years and really not worried about crashing.
Im on the red and white bike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6itKYatMeA

And in this anger management session you will see on the left handlebar I have integrated brakes on my KTM450 which I cant ride without.
Watch from 3min onwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS69tnkEIn8

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 11 2021 5:08pm

Because the tabs on these 50Ah LiPo cells are 45mm wide I dont want to put screws beside the tabs as that will bend the busbar and arch it then there will be no contact in the middle of the tab so I have decided to drill the tabs and put 2 M4 screws 30mm apart.
This will lengthen the cell prep phase horribly. :(
2 16mm thick jig blocks cnc'd are used to sharply bend the tab once its been shortened.
Then the tabs are clamped and flattened out in the jig blocks.
a 5mm drill bit is used to hole the tabs.
The inner jig block receiving the drill bit has blind holes so the bit doesnt puncture the cell.
Attachments
20211112_085746.jpg
20211112_085746.jpg (1.45 MiB) Viewed 439 times

User avatar
jonescg   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4010
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by jonescg » Nov 12 2021 9:45pm

Just be careful you don't let the busbar touch the pouch surface - it takes minimal effort to break through the polythene layer and start grounding the cell against the terminal. Seen a few packs bomb out because of this. Plus any humidity-induced corrosion will be very hard to avoid.

User avatar
RIPPERTON   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Feb 26 2013 11:44pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: RIPPY SCOOT

Post by RIPPERTON » Nov 13 2021 3:55am

Yes, the pouch has x amount of voltage in it, not full 4.2v but its live.
I still havnt finalised the design of the clamp bar but it will be painted and maybe also taped.
I want the clamp bar to fit snugly in between the crimps so it doesnt move around when I am
trying to feed the clamp screws into it so maybe foam tape.
Ive made the 18 blocks that go into the front pack. (pic)
The rear pack will have 24 blocks of 2 cells in parallel.
Attachments
20211113_195255.jpg
20211113_195255.jpg (1.46 MiB) Viewed 407 times

Post Reply