I'm kinda stuck

syukanzaki

100 mW
Joined
Jun 6, 2022
Messages
36
I explain the situation first.

When I got flat tire, air valve hit and scraped motor cable then scooter stopped. (I guess short circuit.)
After that, I fixed motor cable but doesn't work. (Only LCD is still on with Error :E01 and all lights don't work.)

Then I thought controller is dead.
Since I start dual motor MOD at the same time, I got another motor and 2 extra controllers
but both new controllers, old or new motors still don't work.
When I connected battery to controllers, I saw small electric spark.
(I hope it doesn't kill both controllers.)

So I just checked battery output (which is 48v) but reading was 120v.
I'm not sure it is supposed to be 48v after controller or battery pack itself has converter and reading should be 48v.
Controller board is fully silicone filled and has all moduled cables, it's kinda impossible to read other output unless I cut them all.

If battery pack has own converter, short circuit could damage battery converter?
And both controllers might be dead??

Only possibilities now are LCD and battery but battery is pretty expensive.
I just wanna make sure before I buy new battery.

Thank you.
 
You could have your digital multi-meter on the wrong setting, I found that out when I was using V-AC to try and measure V-DC, another is to change out the 9v battery for a new, fresh one, and also make sure your probes are firmly contacted because 120v for a 48v battery is just not right. Might be time to open the battery up and get a sense of how its doing.
 
Thank you calab, you're absolutely right I did read AC.
I probably was in panic at that time.

But I'm more in maze now.
Battery is around 54V (this is the same as I checked before), new controller, new motor still don't work.
Could be throttle? but I don't understand all lights don't work either.

Only possibility is LCD??
LCD is on and I can still use firmware setting too.
Could firmware itself is damaged?
 
First things first. There are a lot of motors and controllers in the world of e-bikes. So, first tell us what you own, manufacture, make and model. And show us some pictures of the cable damage.

:D
 
I'm sorry.

Controller is Star Union (Wuxing) 48v, MCU-S6.
Motor is same Wuxing 48v 600w. (this is not listed on their home page.)
 
You 110% sure you fixed the damaged insulation for the wiring?
 
yes, and as I mentioned, damaged cable is on motor's side before connector (most cables have modular cable and connector. eg, motor has 9-pin connector.)
but new motor + old or new controller doesn't work either.
 
Any idea what the error 01 means? This varies by manufacturer and I'm not familiar with that model.

I'd try checking for 5v on either the hall sensors, the throttle or the brake switch wires.

Is there a wire harness that goes between the display and the controller? You should double check all plugs in the system. Unplug and visually inspect the pins/sockets and reconnect. Also possible you damaged a cable elsewhere in the system.
 
error.PNG
This is from manufacture.

Basically I haven't touched or changed anything after that motor short circuit except new controller and motor trial.

I'll specify connections more clearly.
Controller has
1x xt60 input, 1x charger port, 1x 9-pin hub motor output, 1x 9-pin control (this goes to front and connects to LCD, headlight and both brake sensors.), 3x 2-pin LED output and 1x 3-pin brake output. These are all moduled.

LCD has not regular 5-pin but 6-pin because it's with left brake together.
3-pin throttle and 3-pin right brake.
That's about all.
 
I check cable.
It is 1T4D cable (I couldn't find on the market), very similar to 1T5 cable except the separation of display and left brake.

Could cable itself possibly be damaged from short circuit even without any physical damage?
If so, I'm gonna get 1T5 cable and reconnect everything.
 
I took main cable out.
It says "1T4D X1", manufacture is maybe "JUNYU" but I can not find this product anywhere.

Cable details are little different.
Controller side is 9pin
to
1x 2pin key, 1x 2pin right brake, 1x 3pin throttle and 1x 6pin display + left brake.

If I can find same cable, testing is easier but even though I buy all separate cables, it's gonna be tough job
because all parts including controller have moduled cable and connector.
 
I probably found out the problem.
I don't know why and how it affects but the problem was throttle itself.

I haven't even touched throttle but I realized lights work when I unplugged throttle.
Since I don't have any extra throttle, I tried directly, at least motor runs now.

Thank you everyone helping and advising me.
Just waiting for a new throttle and hope it works.

I have to reorganize and solder all cables back, definitely nightmare but can move forward at least.
 
Good work. If the throttle shorts, it can pull down the 5v supply, which will mess up everything else. With the molded connectors, it's hard to probe the lines with a meter. At least a new throttle won't be too expensive.
 
FWIW, a fairly common problem with motor cable damage is a phase wire shorting to either a hall signal or worse the hall 5v power line. This puts pulsed battery voltage into devices that can't handle it, and if it's the 5v power line, it can destroy *everything* that is powered by it--not just inside the controller, but the PAS sensor, throttle, etc.

This can also destroy motor halls, but this depends on which part was used--some have fairly high voltage ratings and *might* survive a momentary burst of higher voltage, so it doesn't always kill them (but sometimes they are damaged enough to become unreliable in certain conditions).
 
PXL_20220609_085617906.jpg
oh man... another nightmare.

Since this controller is fully silicone molded, I can not even check board itself.

at least only yellow goes to both display and throttle signal but the problem is cable company and controller company are maybe different.
Throttle company is different too, and they use black, purple and light grey. (I've never seen this combination.)
but it is not gonna be much job.
Serious work is finding throttle signal from these 9 cables.

I'm not really expecting someone can help me on this but I just wanna vent.
 
PXL_20220610_064752608.jpg
Okay I feel much better now.

For now, at least throttle, controller, lights, everything works perfectly with single motor.

Throttle has black, purple and light grey cables but simply purple is red and light grey is white. (color depth? I guess.)

This controller and throttle are both WuXing.
And you can see some purple and light grey on left side.
Do they normally use different colors even in the same manufacture?

Also when I connect only throttle signal cable to second controller, how I'm supposed to use multimeter and how much it's supposed be?
First controller positive line and second motor signal line, and it's gonna be 0.8~5v as same as first controller?

If I connect one by one to check which cable is correct, is it possibly dangerous?
And second motor doesn't even work at all unless I connect right signal cable?

Thank you all
 
I'm stuck again.
I already found throttle signal wire from controller, connected to both controllers (Multimeter reads 0.8v.), but 2nd motor still doesn't work. (only 1st motor works normally.)

I check battery, both motors, both controllers, and throttle switching around.
Everything's OK with single motor. (Multimeter reads fine 0.8v to 5v even signal wire is connected to both controllers.)

I also tried all 9 wires from controller just in case (All motor cables are separated.) but I couldn't even hear the tick sound from 2nd motor when I turn on the key. (I can always hear this tick sound from 1st motor if all wires connect properly.)

If I switch 1st and 2nd motor with 1st and 2nd controller, only 2nd motor runs. (2nd controller means which is connected only signal wire.)
Result is the same even if I switch 1st and 2nd controller.
 
キャプチャ.PNG

oh, battery is too weak?
if so, this possibly happens? (failure of only 2nd motor.)

also if this is because of battery, how can I choose right one?
two 48v 600w motors = at least 25A discharge?
or I also have to care about wattage and/or capacity?
 
syukanzaki said:
キャプチャ.PNG

two 48v 600w motors = at least 25A discharge?
or I also have to care about wattage and/or capacity?

Calculation is correct - 600 W is ~12,5A at 48V, and with 2 motors it doubles.
So it can't work with this battery (only 15A).

Capacity is usually "linked" to maximum discharge current-
i.e. in most cases, from a higher capacity battery you can draw more current than from one with lower capacity.
 
Now I understand, thank you

the issue is maybe room for battery.
it is pretty long but shallow and narrow.
15"x4.75"x2.5" this is probably maximum space for battery.
 
It's probably easier to find 2 small mid-power batteries than 1 small high-power battery.

If I use 2 batteries (for each controllers, no parallel) is there difference from 1 battery? (Advantage or disadvantage.)

Also can connect 2 charge ports together to 1 outlet?
 
For two motors, two separate packs will be the same as one big pack. I don't see any advantage either way from a power standpoint.
If you connect the charge ports together, there may be a problem if both controllers share the same throttle, as both will be grounded together by the throttle wires. The positive side of the charge port generally goes straight to the cells and the negative side goes through the BMS FETs. If one BMS trips, the common ground wire will prevent it from cutting off the current to the pack and the ground wire might also fry.
 
Oh yeah you're right.
Charger port is not one way.
That will be just the same as parallel connection.
Thank you for reminding me.
Then I should go for 1 battery.
 
PXL_20220624_091937437.jpgPXL_20220624_092004136.jpg
I have no idea what I should do next.
New battery is 48v 30a suitable for max 1200w
48v 600w x2, same motors same controllers

reading is from throttle negative and right before 2nd controller signal.
reading is ok, 1st motor runs but 2nd motor.
if I switch either controller or motor, only 1st motor runs. (2nd controller 2nd motor means connecting to only signal and power.)
I also tried some different throttle.

Display (firmware) could be the cause?
I'm almost giving up...
 
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