KAWASAKI ZXR-E

flob

100 mW
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
41
Hi all,
i have been lurking mostly here on ES since a couple of years, awesome knowledge gathered here.
I did two build logs over on el-moto but unfortunately the forum is down for some reason or other.
Anyway game called give and take so i guess its time to give back some to you all.

Ok,
after my first conversion a Sachs XTC-125 this one:
20201121_112107.jpg

on Me1115 and 20s 90 ah lipo i wanted some more...

not so much about power but basically the selfmade lipo did not live up to spec, getting 58-59 Ah out of a 90Ah pack means too much dead weight being carried around.
The mid motor setup did produce some chainwhip at certain speeds too - a bit anoying.

Time to move on.
Upgrading the bats seemed out of question so a new bike for the brand new nissan leaf gen4 cells had to be found ad by sheer luck i got my hands on a long love of mine:

Kawasaki zxr-400
20200913_110552.jpg

got it cheap, after selling the engine and other things not needed anymore i was out by just 100€ :D
 
So my basic measurements told me that i could just fit the 6 nissan leaf packs, and in order to avoid chain whip a 2 stage reduction was on order, to give me about 4.2:1 reduction.

CAD:
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motor3.jpg
motor4.jpg
motor5.jpg
V3 001.jpg
v3 003.jpg
v3 016.jpg
v3 021.jpg
v3 022.jpg
V3 029.jpg
V03 036.jpg
v4 001.jpg
v4 003.jpg
 

Attachments

  • v4 010.jpg
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From CAD to reality:

having a cnc does help a lot :)
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trial fit
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The whole battery can be hauled into and out of the bike without any wires "life" as the disconnect can be locked shut.
Place in bike and connect +/- to controller and you are basically ready to go... if life was that easy :)

Tapper bushes for the reduction stage:
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DCDC and 12 life under back seat

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charger under driver seat

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empty tank

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no need for gas
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primary stage cover:
carbon fiber reinforced print and fg plate
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front cover:
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fairing cutout for controller:
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cover for it: milled foam covered in fiberglass and kevlar and sandwich material, then
vacuum bagged:
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DONE: :D :D
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of course this is just a short description feel free to ask

have fun with your builds
 
edit:
i have updated the wiring scheme.
please note that the relay within the blue circle in last pic is not yet realised.
I want to do that in order to stop the dcdc to slowly depleting the 12 v life over time.
i do not mind the little it takes from the main bats, for longer storage i simply unplug the dcdc but unplugging basically everytime is just not practical and not sooo good for the plugs..

the two split/upright images for those who want to print out. otherwise identical

edit: there is still a connection missing: foot switch at domino throttle goes to B- as well !! (right side of drawn throttle)

and pleas forgive if the drawing may not be to international electric-drawing-standards, this was meant to serve only myself, so some signs may be unconventional... but i guess you will get it...

flo

strom sevcon 1.jpg
Strom sevcon geteilt 1.jpg
Strom sevcon geteilt 2.jpg

not yet realised 3rd relay
strom sevcon  anmerkung.jpg
 
What a totally clean and professional build! Amazing!

Can you report back on your leaf cells? It's one of the options I'm considering for my next build. From the pics, looks like youve got 24s, Li-ion, so 88.8V nominal. Are they the same as your previous build, where you reported only getting 58ah out of a 90ah rated cell? Or did you go with new, different cells?
Edit: i re-read, you used lipo on your first build, so the gen 4 leaf cells are new.

I wondering if you're measuring amps mid-ride. I can't find too much data on the Leaf cells online, but as far as I can tell, one drawback is that they're geared for energy more than power, so if you're pulling 150 amps from a 90ah pack, you're coming up on 2C, and I can't find any specific data online on how well they handle that. How much voltage drop are you seeing, and at what speed/amp draw? It would be nice if the leaf cells could handle 2-3C, because there's so much about them that's great: they're relatively easy to find online, nice solid and durable exteriors, easy to make into large packs with threaded rods, easy to make series connections... I just don't want to bite the bullet on them yet because I don't know enough about their discharge specs, and maybe you could help with that.
 
Hi
thanks

on the leafs:
no these are not the cells i used on my xtc conversion.
Those were from ali... and were definetly geared for energy rather than power eventhough they had different specs on their site...

Leafs are awesome actually, i do get about 100 ah out of those 112 ah pacs.

i do not pull 150 amps out of them all the time, at a steady speed of 100kph i use about 120 cont.... but bursts with the kelly up to 32 ish kw on 24 s no problem ...360ish amps..
voltage drop ... cannot remember exactly ~ 4v... and winter is here so i will have to check next spring :p
 
Thanks for the feedback. Probably helps a lot that you were able to get the gen 4, 112ah cells. So even 150amp continuous is still less than 1.5C, cells should be able to handle that just fine. May I ask how much you had to pay for them?
 
Any hints what has helped to get the TüV approval?

My next build will be a Supermoto with 30-40kW power with 26-28S 90Ah LiIon-battery, probably based on a Aprillia SXV450/550 when I can buy one at an affordable price.
 
hi
to pass MOT (TÜV) in germany there are surprising little rules:

Any bike before okt.2002 won`t need an emv test (electric magnetic noise / interference test)

If bike does not exceed original top speed, original max hp (easy for electric only the long term rated power is considered), and not too much weight gain (if anything goes wrong you just loose the passenger approval - 1 person only)
it then considered a motor swap only - which is totally legal and free of hazzle.

So they merely look about your craftsmanship...
On top you have to follow "VDE" guidelines like orange cabes and covers ... availible online or just pm me..
You should write down a security/safety concept stating as of how you provide the bike to be complete without power in case of emergency within 3 sec... or how you have chosen wiring size, contactor size ... so they won´t have to look up specs for them self.., sidestand switch operation surpressing any unwanted acceleration...
A wiring scheme helps, provde all papers for the equipment you used..cables, contactor, fuse, charger, anything
Take a lot of meaningful pics so you do not have to dismantle anything...
The more info you provide the less stress you will have, my MOT took 2 mins and 30 mins paper work :lol: :D

AND MOST IMPORTANT:
contact your mot engineer before you start, he will tell you what specific he wants to see or being taken care for...if you in need of a really good mot engineer pm me, that guy works in the city of Regensburg Germany but he really knows what matters and what is acceptable.. he is very knowledgeable about electrics..

Flo
 
flob said:
hi
to pass MOT (TÜV) in germany there are surprising little rules:

Any bike before okt.2002 won`t need an emv test (electric magnetic noise / interference test)

If bike does not exceed original top speed, original max hp (easy for electric only the long term rated power is considered), and not too much weight gain (if anything goes wrong you just loose the passenger approval - 1 person only)
it then considered a motor swap only - which is totally legal and free of hazzle.

So they merely look about your craftsmanship...
On top you have to follow "VDE" guidelines like orange cabes and covers ... availible online or just pm me..
You should write down a security/safety concept stating as of how you provide the bike to be complete without power in case of emergency within 3 sec... or how you have chosen wiring size, contactor size ... so they won´t have to look up specs for them self.., sidestand switch operation surpressing any unwanted acceleration...
A wiring scheme helps, provde all papers for the equipment you used..cables, contactor, fuse, charger, anything
Take a lot of meaningful pics so you do not have to dismantle anything...
The more info you provide the less stress you will have, my MOT took 2 mins and 30 mins paper work :lol: :D

AND MOST IMPORTANT:
contact your mot engineer before you start, he will tell you what specific he wants to see or being taken care for...if you in need of a really good mot engineer pm me, that guy works in the city of Regensburg Germany but he really knows what matters and what is acceptable.. he is very knowledgeable about electrics..

Flo

Super helpful info here, thanks! I'll read carefully all your posts, I spotted something that can probably be helpful to me too (I use gen4 size 4 and 6). I am finishing converting 2 bikes (Husqvarna te-250 and a gsxr750) and I'd like to have them road legal. I will look into exporting it to Germany, do the MOT test and reimport in Italy, already a solution that others did. How much did it cost the whole MOT paperwork to register yours?
 
Hi,

I paid just shy off 200€ for the "changeover- check" (?? do not know how it would be called)" and the "classic 2 year" check all together. the latter being around 45-60?€ on its own.
You then have to get new papers for your bike which is around another 45€ ....on top of my head..

why not do it in italy i may ask?

flo
 
flob said:
why not do it in Italy i may ask?
flo

Cause it's basically impossible. Actually there are apparently even more than one way, but all are in reality just very impractical for diy.

One is using the recent conversion laws, that even covers part of the cost of the conversion, but you have to buy an homologated kit for your specific vehicle, and it must be installed by an authorized shop. In the end there are very few kits for a few selected vehicles, usually with poor performance because it's easy for the builder to have it homologated, and super expensive for the owner.

The other is to register yourself the vehicle as a prototype and you have to provide a large number of certifications, tests(em compatibility, etc...), pay for the inspections, taxes, more taxes, and the procedure is long, difficult and costly. (Probably at least 5 k euro, but usually more, especially if you use third party assistance to navigate this ordeal)

We Italians all hate our country when it comes to these things (and others), it's way over burocratized and stupidly expensive. The effect of 2000+ years of burocracy that never stops.

So it's easier to de-register the bike in Italy, export to another EU country, make the conversion there and then re-import it as an already road legal vehicle in Italy (that is fine, because if the vehicle is road legal in EU, can be reimported and registered in Italy). Most of the conversion/heavy modified vehicles/prototypes made here follow this absurd way to be road legal in Italy. That is how stupid and frocked up the situation is here, with EU just not working as it should.
 
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