Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.
User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 02 2021 1:39am

Some more progress:
I stripped down the chassis entirely and gave everything a good thorough cleaning:
IMG_20211031_190720.jpg
IMG_20211031_190720.jpg (406.28 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
Then I started working on relocating the foot pegs a bit higher so they won't keep on rubbing the floor while cornering:
IMG_20211102_002856.jpg
IMG_20211102_002856.jpg (311.74 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
One is already welded in place, I just have to finish the second one.
I will also try to reinforce some areas, the frame wasn't very well made from the factory, they bended the tubes very poorly. I'll try to add a few braces here and there, but I need to find some steel to do that.

I also removed the stand from the frame, I'll make an other one on the swingarm out of carbon tube, same way I did on my other motorcycle.

Meanwhile, I'm working on designing a better enclosure for my ANT BMS. Her is how my first prototype turned out so far.
The inside:
IMG_20211030_200039.jpg
IMG_20211030_200039.jpg (301.47 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
The outside:
IMG_20211102_003011.jpg
IMG_20211102_003011.jpg (261.85 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
I had some fun and tried to put a logo on it, I think it looks cool. I'll probably make the logo a little bit smaller on the final version.

This thing has been 3D printed, the final version will be 3D printed as well, but I'll add some layers of primer and paint in order to protect it from the sun and make it look better.

I'm also gonna print new brackets for the battery box. These ones were only supposed to be a temporary test, but they worked so well I didn't bother replacing them. Hence the weird blue color, That was the only filament I had left at the time.
I've already printed new ones, in black color this time.
As you can see, one of the bracket took a serious hit. Despite that it was still holding the battery box just fine.
IMG_20211031_192216.jpg
IMG_20211031_192216.jpg (365.55 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
It's also a good opportunity to rebuild the front shock absorbers, I ordered new seals and cleaned everything:
IMG_20211031_191941.jpg
IMG_20211031_191941.jpg (340.43 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
Last but not least, I received my new brake pumps and brake lines:
IMG_20211029_231756.jpg
IMG_20211029_231756.jpg (301.51 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
IMG_20211030_174053.jpg
IMG_20211030_174053.jpg (318.56 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
IMG_20211030_200601.jpg
IMG_20211030_200601.jpg (272.16 KiB) Viewed 1365 times
Also, my battery is getting repaired, in total the supplier will replace 6 cells, I should get it back this week.
It was super fast and cost me something like 30 bucks. China's great for that kind of things, I can't imagine how long and how expensive that would have been to do the same thing in France.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

j bjork   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1335
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by j bjork » Nov 02 2021 3:02am

It looks like you are really trying to fry that poor little motor now :wink:
Is there a specific reason why you got an ATP instead of a far driver for example?

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 02 2021 4:13am

j bjork wrote:
Nov 02 2021 3:02am
It looks like you are really trying to fry that poor little motor now :wink:
Is there a specific reason why you got an ATP instead of a far driver for example?
Haha, yeah. I hope this motor will be able to take it. It was happily running at 510 amps per phase, but 900 amps might be a bit too much. :lol:

Only reason I'm going for it is that a friend left this APT controller at my place when he moved out, so I thought I'd try it instead of having it collecting dust on a shelf.
The FarDrivrers are super nice, but I don't have much money so I can't spend thousands on a controller. If I had the money I'd surely buy one though, they are awesome. :wink:
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

SlowCo   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2111
Joined: Jan 05 2015 5:43pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by SlowCo » Nov 02 2021 5:38am

Very nice work again. Always nice to see your builds evolve. Thanks for posting about all your projects :thumb:

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 08 2021 1:45am

Thanks for the kind words and support guys, much appreciated!

This weekend I tried to keep working on the frame. I haven't had the opportunity to work on the frame since I got it, so now was the perfect time to do so.
The frame was very poorly done from the factory. Not only the welds are horrific, but also the way the tubes were bent horribly wrong by someone who clearly didn't pay much attention to basic structural integrity. This has been bothering me for years (basically anytime I was hitting a pothole), but I couldn't work on this until now because the bike was my daily.

So here is how it looks like from the factory:
IMG_20211107_170231.jpg
IMG_20211107_170231.jpg (336.85 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
I decided to make some gussets using some steel rectangular tubing I had around in the shop:
IMG_20211107_170258.jpg
IMG_20211107_170258.jpg (345.9 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
Did the same for the top and bottom of the frame. But I couldn't weld the ones on the bottom since I was out of welding gas, I'll need to refill this week
Anyway, right now it looks like that:
IMG_20211107_201834.jpg
IMG_20211107_201834.jpg (318.33 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
Everything still fits in the frame, so that's great!
IMG_20211107_230525.jpg
IMG_20211107_230525.jpg (316.04 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
IMG_20211107_235852.jpg
IMG_20211107_235852.jpg (265.22 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
The next step will be to weld the bottom gussets, then I'll start working on the stand. After that it will be time to prep the frame for painting.
I already received my battery, it's fixed, no problem anymore :)
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
tylerwatts   100 W

100 W
Posts: 200
Joined: Sep 14 2012 3:10am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by tylerwatts » Nov 09 2021 5:12am

Your build is looking excellent! I have a few thoughts if you don't mind?

1. How much does it weigh? Do you really need twin front calipers? It always upsets.me when a vehicle has too much braking. Remove 1 caliper and you'll have more power for the other caliper, lighter weight in the wheel for better suspension and lower rotating mass meaning the 1 caliper actually won't be doing double the work.

2. Your gussets look great, exactly the right thing.

3. What cooling will that APT have? Under the tank or behind the battery doesn't have much airflow and with those currents you absolutely need to shed heat quickly!

PS, love your 3d printing and the BMS case looks awesome! Don't make the logo smaller

cheers
Tyler


User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 10 2021 8:33pm

Thanks Tyler!
I sure don't mind, it's always nice to get some comments, the forum is a bit too quiet usually :wink:
tylerwatts wrote:
Nov 09 2021 5:12am

1. How much does it weigh? Do you really need twin front calipers? It always upsets.me when a vehicle has too much braking. Remove 1 caliper and you'll have more power for the other caliper, lighter weight in the wheel for better suspension and lower rotating mass meaning the 1 caliper actually won't be doing double the work.
It weights 130 kg so that's pretty lightweight, but I weight 95kilos :roll:
The dual caliper came standard on the bike, and to be honest I absolutely love it. Believe it or not, but I actually care more about braking power than I care about acceleration, more G force for much cheaper! :lol:
Removing it would maybe lower the weight by one or two kilos, the rotating mass gain would be very unsignificant because the diameter of the disk compared to the diameter of the rim/tire is much smaller. Eating less and working out is probably a better option :lol:
The front brake is my favorite thing on the bike, so I don't think I'll change it anytime soon!
tylerwatts wrote:
Nov 09 2021 5:12am
3. What cooling will that APT have? Under the tank or behind the battery doesn't have much airflow and with those currents you absolutely need to shed heat quickly!
Basically none, just a bit of air flow coming from the front of the bike.'
The Sabvoton controller was installed at the same spot for years and it didn't heat, So I expect it to be the same with the APT. But if it turns out that heat is a problem I can probably watercool it easily.
tylerwatts wrote:
Nov 09 2021 5:12am
PS, love your 3d printing and the BMS case looks awesome! Don't make the logo smaller Image
Haha, thanks! I probably won't make it smaller then ;-)
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Elektrosherpa   100 W

100 W
Posts: 292
Joined: Feb 07 2021 8:19am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Elektrosherpa » Nov 11 2021 4:15am

Dui, ni shuo de dui wrote:
Nov 08 2021 1:45am

So here is how it looks like from the factory:
IMG_20211107_170231.jpg
Honestly-I have never seen such a lousily made frame.
Even if a Moroccan or Pakistani backyard welder would build a motorbike, it would look much better.

I guess it is a good idea to reinforce that...
My Build (Bultaco Sherpa T350 -> QS138H70) :
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=110352

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 11 2021 10:24am

Elektrosherpa wrote:
Nov 11 2021 4:15am

Honestly-I have never seen such a lousily made frame.
Even if a Moroccan or Pakistani backyard welder would build a motorbike, it would look much better.

I guess it is a good idea to reinforce that...
Yeah that's absolutely horrific. I have litterally zero welding experience (learned from youtube videos a few months ago) and yet even my ugly welds are better.

But, if I'm being pragmatic:
-It worked amazingly well for 4 years, even with the old 80 kilos lead acid battery
-The bike was fun to ride and I had no complaint about the frame
-This thing weights nothing :lol:
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12713
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 11 2021 11:51am

Thank you for posting all of these pics and information. It is good to show the truth about these products, and then you show where and how to strengthen the weak parts.

Excellent thread.

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 15 2021 10:04pm

Thanks @spinningmagnets!

Ok so now most of the big works on the frame is done.
First, I've finished welding the gussets:
IMG_20211111_193728.jpg
IMG_20211111_193728.jpg (339.76 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
Then I worked on the bike stand. I'm making more or less the same thing I've done on the red roadster, which is to have the stand directly on the swingarm. While in theory this isn't ideal, it turns out that it worked just fine in practice. The main advantage here it that the stand will never rub on the floor again while cornering.

So first I had to cut and weld some metal:
IMG_20211113_163600.jpg
IMG_20211113_163600.jpg (271 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
IMG_20211113_173326.jpg
IMG_20211113_173326.jpg (277.2 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
Then added some reinforcement:
IMG_20211113_183632.jpg
IMG_20211113_183632.jpg (202.51 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
Finally gave it a bit of grinding wheel to get it nice and smooth:
IMG_20211113_185853.jpg
IMG_20211113_185853.jpg (318.36 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
I was using the red bike's stand at this point, so I had to duplicate it for this bike. I already made the first part on the lathe:
IMG_20211114_001912.jpg
IMG_20211114_001912.jpg (285.78 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
Now I just hade to cut a bit of carbon tube and make a small endcap with the lathe, but I can only do that in the end because I need to cut the tube at a specific lenght. For that I need the wheels and suspension to be installed.

I also took the opportunity to go over most of the important welds with the TIG welder, in order to fill some holes and make them a bit prettier.
Now I'm in the process of smoothing a bit the frame, especially the parts that will remain visible. I won't go through the hassle of smoothing stuff that will be hidden behind the fairings since it would be a bit pointless, but at least whateer is visible should look nice.


So first, a bit of bondo:
IMG_20211115_194317.jpg
IMG_20211115_194317.jpg (256.54 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
And then some sanding to get it nice and smooth:
IMG_20211115_202911.jpg
IMG_20211115_202911.jpg (245.23 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
I'll now repeat this operation a few times until I get a nice result. Then It'll be time for a good coat of epoxy primer. The frame will be mate black, I've already ordered the paint.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 24 2021 8:56pm

Good news: the frame is finished, yay!

First I went with a few coats of epoxy primer:
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg (323.26 KiB) Viewed 1150 times
And then a few coats of black. Was supposed to be mate black but in the end it turned out a bit shiny. Not sure why but it's not really an issue, still looks just fine.
IMG_20211124_192004.jpg
IMG_20211124_192004.jpg (232.92 KiB) Viewed 1150 times
Not much else to show, this took a lot of time, prepping for paint is always very time consuming.
Also I did lose a few days because my air compressor released the magic smoke while I was painting the frame. So I had to wait a few days to get a new one.

Now I'm working on the battery box, I'll reuse the carbon one I made, obviously, but I'm improving a few stuff, in particular the way the brackets will be connected to it. I'll also need to design some kind of system to better secure the battery in the box, so It won't be able to move around anymore. I'll also need to design a way to keep moisture out of the box, I had a lot of condensation and this is a serious problem. Not sure yet how to tackle this issue so suggestions are welcome!
I'll also keep using the aerogel sheets for insulation. It does make a huge mess with lots of dust flying around, but it is the best possible insulator and it should keep a fire contained in the box for a while if it ever comes to that (hopefully never).

Anyway, still a lot of stuff to be made, the paint will have plenty of time to dry.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Elektrosherpa   100 W

100 W
Posts: 292
Joined: Feb 07 2021 8:19am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Elektrosherpa » Nov 25 2021 6:08am

I know it's a bit late to ask this-but why didn't you reinforce the horrible bends of the lower frame tubes in the front part,
as you did it with the other two/four bad bends ???
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg (96.99 KiB) Viewed 1136 times
My Build (Bultaco Sherpa T350 -> QS138H70) :
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=110352

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 26 2021 4:41am

Elektrosherpa wrote:
Nov 25 2021 6:08am
I know it's a bit late to ask this-but why didn't you reinforce the horrible bends of the lower frame tubes in the front part,
as you did it with the other two/four bad bends ???

IMG_20211117_201734.jpg
That's because I can't, unfortunately. Otherwise I'll have no way to install the battery box back in place, it is an extremely tight fit.
It's actually so tight that I have to break a little part of the box in order to make it fit, then I have to fix it after it is secured to the frame. :roll:

So yeah, I didn't have much choice
Hopefully that shouldn't be a big issue, it should still be much stiffer than before
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Dec 01 2021 9:46pm

I worked mainly on the rear swingarm and the battery box these past days.

The bike had a lot of play in the rear swingarm and that bothered me for a very long time. Made the bike slightly unstable while cornering on bad roads, I couldn't feel where the rear wheel was for sure. Basically all the pivot points and shocks anchors had a few mm of play, which translated to almost 5cm of play at the rear wheel. So yeah, quite a lot.

First thing I've done was to remove the rubber bushings on the shocks and press fit some bearings instead. I'm not sure yet if this will last or not, I've just used some skateboard bearing I had layin around in a drawer. The idea is to test it this way, and then later upgrade to needle bearingsonce these one will get damaged. The idea behind this mod is a bit difficult to explain, but basically this remove entirely any kind of play on the shocks pivot point.
IMG_20211201_193120.jpg
IMG_20211201_193120.jpg (315.57 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
Also machined these spacers out of aluminum to remove any play from the screws:
IMG_20211201_193142.jpg
IMG_20211201_193142.jpg (220.87 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
IMG_20211201_193240.jpg
IMG_20211201_193240.jpg (249.75 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
Finally, I replaced the swingarm bushing with a slightly tighter one, I had to custom machine it to fit, which proved to be a bit more difficult than I thought, but it did fit eventually.
Also finished the bike stand by adding a screw that acts like a physical limit stop. Now the bike can stand on its own again.
IMG_20211201_193255.jpg
IMG_20211201_193255.jpg (301.58 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
IMG_20211127_231018.jpg
IMG_20211127_231018.jpg (326.63 KiB) Viewed 1028 times


Everything worked really well so far, I have absolutely zero play in the whole swingarm assembly. It feels much more solid than before. I cannot test it on the roads right now, obviously, but I'm pretty confident it will make a great improvement while riding.
Time will tell

Now in the battery box side, some progress too:
When I originally designed my battery box, the plan was to make some kind of air conditioning system to keep the battery in optimal riding conditions. I never actually had the time to build the thing, so now was the perfect opportunity to do so.
So I picked up my work right where I had left it. The system is composed of two Peltier modules running at 12V, managed by an Arduino nano and two relays (this way it is possible to reverse the polarity and so getting either heating or cooling down the inside of the box). There is also a 5V voltage regulator and I've also added another relay to activate the fans (they help a lot speeding the heating and cooling inside the box)

First, I tried using a different sensor. This time, I used a sensor capable of sensing both temperature and humidity. So I just slightly modified my wiring, then re-wrote my code to work with this sensor, and a few hours later I was able to make a first test:
IMG_20211201_225955.jpg
IMG_20211201_225955.jpg (293.73 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
I'm not sure this is visible on the picture, but my computer screen displays the actual battery box inside temperature and humidity, as well as what is the heat conditioning system doing (either heating, cooling down or standby). During the test it was able to heat the box from 13 to 25 degreeC in a few minutes, and then keep it at this temperature for a while until I stopped the test. So all in all, great success. The thing was drawing about 4 amps at 12V .

Now I'm preparing the PCB for its final installation. I'll add a few switches to command different functions.
I've not decided which functions I'll program yet so any idea is welcome!
IMG_20211202_003034.jpg
IMG_20211202_003034.jpg (276.1 KiB) Viewed 1025 times
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Dec 08 2021 8:40pm

Some progress on the air conditioning system: it is almost done!
Took way less time than I thought, so that's great

First I made all the wiring, attached the two sensors, the peltier modules and a switch:
IMG_20211208_213036.jpg
IMG_20211208_213036.jpg (301.03 KiB) Viewed 941 times
Then I went through the tedious step of programming the arduino, writing the code and testing again and again.
Weirdly enough it went relatively smooth. My code would probably cause heavy vomiting to whoever read it, but somehow it seems to work and be stable.

It works like this:
-Startup and check the relays, the fans and the LED
-Wait for the button to be pressed
-If button is pressed for 1-3 seconds: enable the air conditioning for 30 minutes
-If button is pressed for 3-5 seconds: enable the air conditioning for 3 hours
-If button is pressed more than 5 seconds: cancel action, exit air conditioning mode and standby

Air conditioning mode maintains the inside temperature within 25-30 degreeC, either by heating or cooling down
The button's LED is used to give feedbacks on the selected mode and status. I also use relay clicks to give sound indications.
IMG_20211209_001103.jpg
IMG_20211209_001103.jpg (289.82 KiB) Viewed 941 times
IMG_20211209_002706.jpg
IMG_20211209_002706.jpg (285.09 KiB) Viewed 941 times
I made many tests yesterday and so far it seems to work great. I'll test it some more, hopefully everything works fine.
I found out that carbon fiber is a very good heat conductor so the box definitely needs insulation, otherwise it gets back to room temperature in just a few minutes.
Anyway, so far I'm super happy with it, I just need to do the finishing touches, protect the wires, weather proofing, that kinda stuff.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
jonescg   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4010
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by jonescg » Dec 10 2021 3:29am

Looking very tidy! On the Honda Prelude battery cooling, I decided to just use the aircon heat exchanger whenever the aircon was being turned on in the cabin. The idea being, if the driver is hot, the battery will be hot. It doesn't run when charging, although you feasibly could do so if you wanted to.

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Dec 21 2021 3:26am

jonescg wrote:
Dec 10 2021 3:29am
Looking very tidy! On the Honda Prelude battery cooling, I decided to just use the aircon heat exchanger whenever the aircon was being turned on in the cabin. The idea being, if the driver is hot, the battery will be hot. It doesn't run when charging, although you feasibly could do so if you wanted to.
Thanks mate, I absolutely love your builds BTW, the voltron is awesome.

A little side quest this weekend: after seiing a youtube video on carbon forging it looked relatively easy so I gave it a try.
The goal was to make my lower battery brackets out of this material instead of just 3D printed PLA. For no real reason other that the sake of experimenting, the PLA ones were working just fine, but it's alway interesting to try new techniques.

So the first thing was to design a mold. I went for a rather complicated 4 parts assembly because I had some intricate shapes I couldn't unmold otherwise:
Battery bracket  Clamp Version 2 Left MoldCopy 1 - Google Chrome.jpg
Battery bracket Clamp Version 2 Left MoldCopy 1 - Google Chrome.jpg (54.68 KiB) Viewed 792 times
Here is the assembled mold as well as the original 3D printed part:
IMG_20211217_223627.jpg
IMG_20211217_223627.jpg (310.03 KiB) Viewed 792 times
Then I took all the carbon cloth leftover I had around and chopped them into smaller bits. It took a surprizingly long time, on next projects I'll just purchase chopped fibers, it's much cheaper too.
Anyway, I ended up with this:
IMG_20211217_232218.jpg
IMG_20211217_232218.jpg (289.03 KiB) Viewed 792 times
Then I mixed some epoxy, put all of this into the mold and pressed it slowly with clamps. I did this progressively over a few dozen minutes until it was completely tight. Then left it like this to cure for around 24 hours:
IMG_20211218_010100.jpg
IMG_20211218_010100.jpg (307.85 KiB) Viewed 792 times
After that it was time to unmold. I took the precaution of using some unmolding wax all over the mold prior to pouring the epoxy. This helped, unmolding wasn't very difficult, but I did break the mold entirely. Doesn't really matter since I only needed one part anyway, plus printing a new mold doesn't take very long. Left and right brackets are slightly different so I have to make another mold fot the other side no matter what.
Here is how the part looked like righ out from the mold:
IMG_20211218_171249.jpg
IMG_20211218_171249.jpg (261.29 KiB) Viewed 792 times
And after a bit of cleaning:
IMG_20211218_180352.jpg
IMG_20211218_180352.jpg (265.97 KiB) Viewed 792 times
The result isn't perfect but it is still very nice.
Then, as usual with carbon fiber, I had a lot of post processing to do... Sanding, epoxy, sanding again, clear coat, sanding, etc. Super boring stuff, but each step makes it a bit prettier.
Hopefully it's almost finished, probably one or two more sanding/clear coats and it should be perfect.

Here is how it looks like right now, there are still a few pinholes but they should disappear after the next coating:
IMG_20211218_231945.jpg
IMG_20211218_231945.jpg (197.35 KiB) Viewed 792 times
IMG_20211220_212803.jpg
IMG_20211220_212803.jpg (375.74 KiB) Viewed 792 times
It was an interesting process, actually wasn't very difficult. I think I'll use it more from now on, it's pretty convenient, the resulting parts seem tough and they look really nice.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

j bjork   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1335
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by j bjork » Dec 21 2021 6:47am

It will be interesting to see how this battery temp management works :)
I am a bit worried that it will get wet inside, but maybe your humidity sensor will react in time.

Nice work with the carbon bracket, Im trying to learn 3d printing so I am a few steps behind..
What cad program do you use?

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Dec 22 2021 9:02pm

j bjork wrote:
Dec 21 2021 6:47am
What cad program do you use?
I'm using Onshape, it's an entirely web based application, no need to install anything, no need for a powerful computer, only thing you need is an internet connexion. It's really easy to use, fast, very powerful... I absolutely love it. I don't know if it is still possible to gt a free account nowadays, I was lucky enough to get one a very long time ago.
I started learning 3D design with tinkercad, which is also web based. Tinkercad is ideal when you are a total noob and have no clue about how to 3D design. Then once you are a bit more experienced you can switch over to Onshape, Fusion 360, Autocad and whatnot.
Let me know if you have some questions regarding 3D printing, I'd be glad to help.

Speaking about 3D printing, I've done a bunch of prints these past days. Trying to finish the battery box, and more specifically the BMS enclosure.
I slightly redesigned it so it is now a bit wider.
IMG_20211222_220017.jpg
IMG_20211222_220017.jpg (313.49 KiB) Viewed 735 times

IMG_20211222_221017.jpg
IMG_20211222_221017.jpg (350.96 KiB) Viewed 735 times
I made an internal bracket system with captive nuts, this way I will be able to disassemble and reassemble the BMS enclosure without needing to access the inside of the battery box.
IMG_20211222_221843.jpg
IMG_20211222_221843.jpg (346.34 KiB) Viewed 735 times
As you saw on the first pictures, the BMS features two little 40mm fans. But they would be close to useless if they were blowing hot air from inside the enclosure. So I had to design some air channels to collect fresh air from the outside and deliver it to the fans. Also I needed to add a little 24V converter in order to feed the BMS screen and the little fans.
So I got these printed:
IMG_20211222_234614.jpg
IMG_20211222_234614.jpg (247.33 KiB) Viewed 735 times
And then installed everything in the enclosure:
IMG_20211223_002415.jpg
IMG_20211223_002415.jpg (347.66 KiB) Viewed 735 times
The air comes from the inlet on the top left side, gets sucked by the fans, blowed onto the BMS and gets released inside the box, then it should find its way outside through the outlet on the top right side. The inlets and outlets take a lot of space, the reason is that I had to make the fins relatively long in order to avoid water ingestion. Hopefully everything should work fine.


I also got an idea for the finishing of this enclosure. I'd like to try to use wrinkle paint. It's the kind of paint Ferrari uses on their engines to make them pretty:

ferrari-engine.jpg
ferrari-engine.jpg (135.1 KiB) Viewed 735 times
I'll order some of this paint and give it a try. If it works it might look really, really cool, but I have no idea if this can work on plastic.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
tylerwatts   100 W

100 W
Posts: 200
Joined: Sep 14 2012 3:10am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by tylerwatts » Jan 04 2022 6:11am

Wow that carbon bracket looks beautiful! I'm curious how strong it will be compared to the printing or even say cast aluminium. Not expecting it to exceed proper T rated aluminium billet parts but that's overkill most of the time so this is an awesome alternative! But more effort but you build a machine to keep right, and enjoy, plus the process looks therapeutic

Great work! Love the BMS assembly also.

cheers
Tyler


User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Jan 04 2022 10:48pm

Thanks Tyler!
I think it should be more or less equivalent in strenght with an aluminum part, it is very stiff. But it doesn't really need to be very strong for this particular application, I just did it this way for the sake of experimenting with a new process, it's always nice to learn new stuff! I discovered that it is fairly easy so I'll use this technique a lot more in the future. The only part I don't like about this is the enormous amount of time necessary for finishing... Lots of sanding, lots of time trying to plug tiny holes... I wish it could be perfect right out of the mold, but I probably don't have the right technique just yet.

Anyway, a bit more work:
I made the second bracket, the same way I did the other. This time it came out slightly better, but the mold deformed in some places so I had to sand the part down quite a lot in some places. Next time I'll make the mold a lot stronger to avoid this situation.

First filling the mold with epoxy + carbon fiber chops:
IMG_20211228_231610.jpg
IMG_20211228_231610.jpg (386.32 KiB) Viewed 622 times
Then clamping it slowly:
IMG_20211228_234028.jpg
IMG_20211228_234028.jpg (303.78 KiB) Viewed 622 times
Then the usual boring process, sanding, more epoxy, sanding, more epoxy, sanding.... etc.
Now I'm doing the last stages which is to use clear coat. I'll have probably one more sanding and clear coat to do, hopefully I'll finally get rid of the last pinholes, they are stupidly hard to get rid off.... These two brackets took me a lot of time to make...but they sure look cool though!
IMG_20220105_002823.jpg
IMG_20220105_002823.jpg (301.06 KiB) Viewed 622 times
So far it is a success, even though it's not perfect.
Next thing I've done was to experiment with the wrinkle paint. So far I haven't got any good results to show with plastics, but I'll keep working on it. Meanwhile, I had decent results on metalic parts.

First attempt was on this old motor cover I had layin around in the shop.
First removing the paint:
IMG_20211227_130729.jpg
IMG_20211227_130729.jpg (318.75 KiB) Viewed 622 times
Then sprayed the paint in several coats to build some thickness. I think building good and homogenous thickness is the key to get good results, so I'm working on understanding that part better for the plastic parts:
IMG_20211227_184901.jpg
IMG_20211227_184901.jpg (249.89 KiB) Viewed 622 times
Baked it in my kitchen oven at 80 degree for 30-40 minutes
And after a bit of cleaning, it now looks like that:
IMG_20211227_215912.jpg
IMG_20211227_215912.jpg (276 KiB) Viewed 622 times
IMG_20211227_220005.jpg
IMG_20211227_220005.jpg (261.41 KiB) Viewed 622 times
I think it was a great success, it looks awesome. Better than the paint QS is using from the factory, I even wonder if I should paint all my motors with it. Maybe someday.

Since I found it convincing, I decided to paint the rear brake supports with it. This way I'll see how it lasts and how badly it collects dust over time.
Anyway, so far it looks like that:
IMG_20220103_180534.jpg
IMG_20220103_180534.jpg (288.12 KiB) Viewed 622 times
IMG_20220103_180542.jpg
IMG_20220103_180542.jpg (298.94 KiB) Viewed 622 times
Im very happy with this result, it looks super cool, almost like if it was some high quality stuff.

Last but not least, I've worked a bit on the battery cooling system. I integrated the control button on the BMS box and found some ways to route the cables inside instead of outside, this way I'll be able to fill all the holes I currently have in the front of the box, which will be less worries regarding water ingestion.
Now the wiring is pretty clean:
IMG_20220103_002834.jpg
IMG_20220103_002834.jpg (279.13 KiB) Viewed 622 times
And the button is accessible easily on the side of the BMS box:
IMG_20220103_002822.jpg
IMG_20220103_002822.jpg (344.9 KiB) Viewed 622 times
IMG_20220103_002857.jpg
IMG_20220103_002857.jpg (295.85 KiB) Viewed 622 times
I've tested it for many hours already and so far it seems to work very well. I'll keep testing as much as I can before installing the battery.
No I'm working on the battery box internal structure. I need to find ways to make room for the aerogel insulation as well as a way to tightly secure the battery in place so it cannot move at all. I need to come up with some clever 3D printing because it is not a trivial task, there is very little room available. I have a plan for that, hopefully it should work.
Cheers and happy new year to everyone following, best wishes for you and your families !
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Jan 09 2022 10:25pm

Still working on the battery box. I've printed the BMS box cover:
IMG_20220110_000607.jpg
IMG_20220110_000607.jpg (317.19 KiB) Viewed 573 times
I'm also printing the internal structures. These internal parts shall serve several purposes:
-Provide a physical separation from the layer of aerogel sheet that I will add between this part and the carbon box, to not damage the aerogel
-Make sliding the battery in and out much easier than in currently is
-Create some paths for the air to flow with little restrictions, in order to cool down or warm up the whole battery and not just one side of it
-Help wire management by providing some internal channels to protect the wires going to the temperature monitoring system.
-Help in keeping the battery dry. Moisture trapped inside the aerogel shouldn't be able to accumulate too much on the battery with this separation.
-Provide a way to physically secure the battery so it cannot move around anymore.
-Do all of the above in a small enough form factor so I can still insert the battery in the box, obviously.

That was a lot of goals to achieve for these parts so it took quite a lot of thinking to get there. Right now I've only printed the first part,which is the one on the bottom, but other parts will follow. These are the last critical parts I have to finish on the battery box, after this I should be able to reinstall all of this stuff inside the frame.
IMG_20220110_000901.jpg
IMG_20220110_000901.jpg (332.25 KiB) Viewed 573 times
Last but not least, I designed a PCB for the battery temperature and humidity management system:
IMG_20220106_222638.jpg
IMG_20220106_222638.jpg (297.04 KiB) Viewed 573 times
IMG_20220106_223338.jpg
IMG_20220106_223338.jpg (323.28 KiB) Viewed 573 times
Its the first time I''m designing a PCB, it was a fun and interesting experience. I've placed an order at JLCPCB and I should receive the finished PCB with already assembled/soldered components on it in a few days. I've made a design change compare to my first prototype, which is that the fan is now controlled by a mosfet instead of a relay. This way I can PWM it to lower its speed. I intend to use this to enable the fan in slow speed mode to get air circulating in the box at regular intervals, maybe a few minutes every hour or so, because air circulation should prevent moisture accumulation. This way it would use very little power and remain almost silent.

I hope it is gonna work fine and not explode in my face. I guess we'll see.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

User avatar
tylerwatts   100 W

100 W
Posts: 200
Joined: Sep 14 2012 3:10am

Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by tylerwatts » Jan 11 2022 9:37am

Wow great progress Dui!

Just wondering about the carbon parts, do you mix the fibre and epoxy before filling the mould? And maybe mix it thinner to better coat thee fibre? Of course need enough hardener to effectively cure but should have plenty time to get it in the mould, the trouble is mixing it. I think also maybe your ratio of carbon to resin is too high, use less carbon bits to mix better? Just my engineering thoughts.

The paint looks FANTASTIC! Wow, better than factory finish like you said, I love that.

cheers
Tyler


User avatar
Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 687
Joined: Jan 29 2016 3:21am

Re: Ninja 250

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Jan 11 2022 11:27pm

tylerwatts wrote:
Jan 11 2022 9:37am

Just wondering about the carbon parts, do you mix the fibre and epoxy before filling the mould?
Actually no, I fill progressively by adding fiber and resin together, with a brush. I thought about this method but it will make a thick paste and probably won't be able to make it to the tiny features of the mould.
tylerwatts wrote:
Jan 11 2022 9:37am
And maybe mix it thinner to better coat thee fibre?
I warmed it slightly so it got thinner indeed, but that was mostly because it was too cold in my shop. It should probably help to make it thinnner yeah. Though you have to be careful not to heat it too much, the mould is 3d printed plastic so it can melt and deform, especially since the resin will keep heating up while curing pluys you'll add the pressuree from the clamps.... My second mould has been deformed because of that, I realised it after demolding the part and had to sand it a lot to correct this defect.
tylerwatts wrote:
Jan 11 2022 9:37am
I think also maybe your ratio of carbon to resin is too high, use less carbon bits to mix better?
Generally on carbon fiber parts you want as minimum resin and as much carbon as possible, as long as the fibers are completely wet it's ok.
This is the reason why I clamped the mould in the vice, to squeeze out progressively all the excess resin.
But I'm no expert, so if anyone has a different experience then he's wecome to correct me :)
tylerwatts wrote:
Jan 11 2022 9:37am
The paint looks FANTASTIC! Wow, better than factory finish like you said, I love that.
Yeah thanks! really like it, plus it wasn't very difficult to do. I hope I'll get some good results on plastic!
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200 Unlocked, 72V 20Ah 24S1P A123 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Post Reply