charger not working (Electric Motion)

JIMMY_J

10 mW
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
23
I recently purchased a 2014 Electric Motion 5.7 Trials motorbike and the charger isn't working. it will charge for 15-35 minutes then shuts off. the charger it came with is here:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/900w-electric-vehicle-E-car-E_60095011693.html

it says ROHS LiPol 54.6V 15A on it

The motorbike:
Battery- 25Ah and is a 13s from what I understand
Motor- 5KW Golden motor
Controller- Kelly controller KEB 48601

is there a chance the charger is fine and the problem is my BMS ? or Battery? the charger fan rarely comes on and when i move the charger it shuts off sometimes but this may be coincidence. the first time i charged the bike i had to reset the charger 6 or 7 times but the second time i had to reset it like 30+ times.

how can I trouble shoot and or fix ?
 
Sounds like the battery is trying to balance itself. The charger may have to turn off and on many many times, and can take hours, days, or even weeks for a really badly balanced pack, depending on the BMS design.

Best bet is open it up, and measure each parallel group of cells from it's own + and -, and note those values here in the thread. Start at the most negative, and work your way up to the most positive.

any that are very different likely have a problem of some kind.


Could also be a broken wire inside the charger cord at either end, making poor connection.
 
I have a 2013 Electric Motion 5.7 Trials motorbike

Most of the time, the charger would only charge for 30-45 min and shut off. I would restart the charging and the same thing would happen over and over until I achieved a full charge. On occasion the charger would work normal and give me a full charge in one go.

The charger has recently stopped working all together. The Charger is getting power and the lights come on but it wont charge the battery. The battery voltage is currently sitting at 29-30 VDC

I contacted EM with this information and they said the battery is under the limit voltage, that’s why the charger wont turn on and that the bike must have been left on and the battery discharged too much. They are going to find an EM dealer concerning this and get them to contact me to find availability to charge the battery up to 42V

Battery specs:
54.6V LiPol (is this a peak rating normally called a 48V?)
13series 25Ah

Charger:
ROHC 48vdc 15A

I’m in canada and the nearest EM dealer is along way away. I’m thinking I should open the case and check the individual cells and balance them. What type of charger/discharger would you guys recommend and where is a good place to get it. Do you think my initial charging problems are charger bms or battery ? What’s the best way to proceed ? Thanks
 
I drilled out the rivets and cut the battery box open to expose the cells and BMS

BMS: BNT-Mp-M1005-001

On the “Cell Monitorinbg PH1” There are 2 verticle 15 horizontal wire ports labeled:

30 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2
WRWWWWWWWWWWWWB

W=white
R=red
B=Black

From Red to Black I’m getting 28VDC
In between any other 2 cells side by side I get 2VDC except one where I am only reading 1VDC
 
Just replace that pack with new is best, replace the BMS or at least wire the new pack so it is easily replaced

Then you can take your time, atomise the old one, test cells see if any worth salvaging maybe end up with a spare

more likely build them into a portable powerpack for less demanding uses like charging phones, lights & fan while camping etc.



 
at only 2v per cell, or less, the bms has shutoff charging to prevent the possibility of a fire.

you will need to replace the battery pack with a new one.
 
Even with having to restart the charger over and over once the battery was full it lasted 2.5 hours of riding . I left it on when it was dead and didn’t charge it now the battery is completely bad ?

What equipment do i need to start going through this pack and or make a new one ? A charger that can be set to different voltages and amperages and can add resistance to cells to test them ?
 
Start educating yourself by reading through the threads here, take detailed notes, use keyword terms for searching via the forum search or google-fu, site: "quotes", -dash, OR

Don't bother fixing the old one if you want to be riding soon.

john61ct said:
Then you can take your time, atomise the old one, test cells see if any worth salvaging maybe end up with a spare

more likely build them into a portable powerpack for less demanding uses like charging phones, lights & fan while camping etc.

 
Check this guy out

https://youtu.be/bkWdDx7OT7E

He’s using an electric drill to run the regen to charge the batteries from 0V !
We have the same bike and the same problem where the bike was left on.
EM told me i would have to send the battery to a dealer so they could charge (the contractor wont click at lo voltage)
No Em dealers anywhere near me and they have stopped responding as i bought the bike used

I’m going to disassemble the rest of the battery case and expose the cells so i can order new pouch type cells that are similar to the originals and work with the BMS and charger
 
JIMMY_J said:
He’s using an electric drill to run the regen to charge the batteries from 0V !
while that may physically work, it is dangerous because the bms shut off the charge port for a reason--to protect you against a fire from cells that *could* have been damaged from discharging too low.

additionally, the bms is not designed to shutoff the discharge port to prevent overcharging cells by charging thru that port, so the cells can be damaged even further by that process, especially if the regen current (or other charge current thru the discharge port) is higher than the usual charging current. the higher the charging current is, the worse the problem is.

while the actual *chance* of such a fire is low, the *consequences* of the fire starting are catastrophic--you probably won't be able to put the fire out unless you're completely prepared and ready for it with the correct materials, and you catch it before it sets fire to surrounding stuff. :(

and after the damage, the risk is "forever", meaning that you will have no idea when the fire would happen, if it does happen. the most likely time is during charging or discahrging because current is flowing and heat is being created...but it could happen just sitting there doing "nothing".

it's probably more likely to happen the lower the cells went in voltage below their cutoff, but it could (theoretically) happen regardless of how far below.

preventing cell damage is why the cells *have* a limit, and why bms's have an lvc to cutoff discharging in the first place. if there wasn't a risk of damage to the cells from exceeding cell limits, there would be little reason for a complicated piece of electronics like the bms to exist--not many battery builders would spend money on that, and instead would keep the money.

;)
 
My 13 cell series 0 parallel Lithium polymer pouch cell 48volt 24.5 Ah pack from my electric motorbike was over discharged and left for several months. Each cell was around 2 volts. I disassembled the pack and charged each cell at 450mA and brought each cell up to 3.51 Volts. I did this outside in a safe place with a fire extinguisher. What should i do next ? I understand copper shunts can form inside ?

1-I have access to a device that will apparently put load onto each cell and discharge it then charge it back up at a rate that will “condition” the cell.

2-Re assemble the pack and charge it with my 54.6volt charger with the BMS re connected and put it back in the bike and try riding it.

Is the dangerous part of reviving an overly discharged LiPo cell over now that I have brought the cells back up to 3.51v or does the “copper shunt” do its thing during the final charge or when load is put on the cell?
 
JIMMY_J said:
Is the dangerous part of reviving an overly discharged LiPo cell over now
No.

Once cells have dropped below their specified limits, there is always a chance of damage to the cell that can lead to dramatic failure modes. You will only know that this damage exists when the failure occurs. :( :flame:

The less overdischarged they were, then that may mean the less likely a failure is...but again, you can't know until it happens.


It appears to be more likely to happen the higher the current flow is at the time, but there's no guarantee of it not happening at any other time, depending on the specific damage (which you can't know).


It may be perfectly safe...or it may not. Some (possibly most) people doing this have had no problems...but because of the nature of the potential damage, you simply won't know until bad things are actually happening. And most poeple that do this never post about it anywhere; the few that do hardly ever report any results, even short-term. So we only have information on the tiny fraction that both post that they were trying it, and what the long-term results were.


Cells with obvious damage (self-discharge, lowered capacity, altered internal resistance, etc) could be replaced, but that would require testing them individually (relatively easy if your pack is actually 1p, single 24.5Ah cells as your first sentence implies), or checking the pack for balance after charge, sitting for a while, then investigating any cells that are not staying balanced, and checking the pack for balance after discharge (before charging), etc.


So, you can go ahead and try it--just be aware of the risks, and just in case, I'd recommend storing and charging and using that pack only outdoors away from inhabited structures, cuz you never know.

Myself, I'd start over with new cells--I wouldn't risk a fire.
 
I have a battery pack with one bad cell that I am selling individual cells from. $200 each plus shipping costs. email me at Brianpsutch@gmail.com if you are interested.
 
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