Tesla MIC (made in China) Model 3 will be LFP!

CATL is the largest lithium battery manufacturer in the world, so it makes sense they got the Tesla contract in China. We should really have a lot more info on CATL batteries here on the forum.
 
Yeah I saw that. Pretty cool. That will:

1) Provide a zero-cobalt option
2) Drive rapid development in LFP technoloy
3) Provide a source for used LFP for us
 
Wow, this is interesting. It must have significantly less range or weigh quite a bit more. However, in theory it will last an astronomical amount of time. Completely different BMS voltage setup. Pretty interesting! I wouldn't have guessed but considering the Cobalt shortages it makes perfect sense.
 
Yes I know they're huge but CATL has not hit my radar for quality / consistency / longevity like Winston, CALB, Sinopoly, GBS and of course A123/LithiumWerks.

But if they have been lower-QA, working with Tesla should give their processes a heck of an upgrade.
 
Im sure Tesla have their reasons for this decision, but it begs some questions as to their previous justification for self manufacturing their own cells..
EG..
Superior technology
Lower cost
Quality control
Vertical integration of manufacturing processes
Etc, etc..
And poses the question ....why ?
 
Just guessing, but IMO the China market will be so huge and easy for them

their QA is already such light-years above their competition there,

brand status such a huge factor,

charge stations so dense in the target urban areas, probably main inter-city links as well,

so they can afford to experiment with a downscale / more affordable product there,

while sacrificing range would be a non-starter in the rest of the world where governments are less enthusiastically pushing EV tech generally.
 
data point https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/25/teslas-shanghai-model-3-jumps-instantly-to-chinas-1-electric-vehicle-by-production-volume
 
john61ct said:
data point https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/25/teslas-shanghai-model-3-jumps-instantly-to-chinas-1-electric-vehicle-by-production-volume
FFS ! John,..”production volume”.. in china ...in January !
That has to be the most blatant piece of data. “cherry picking” even for a Tesla fan club !
Why didnt they use “sales” numbers ?
Mabe they could not find sales figures by brand for January. ?
But “insideevs” had this...
BYD was hard hit by a "perfect storm" in China, where the general shrinking automotive market, combined with the cut of EV subsidies and coronavirus, led to a really big and consistent sales drop.
In January, the well-known Chinese plug-in electric car manufacturer sold just 7,018 plug-ins, which is 75% less than a year ago. In 2019 sales exceeded 28,000.
https://insideevs.com/news/400215/january-2020-byd-plugin-car-sales/
And to put it in perspective, the previous month, (Dec). Tesla were 7th on the sales figures at 4,800(est?), compared to the top seller at 22,000.
 
Yes, everyone is down due to COVID-19 - that's not something unique to BYD now is it?
In fact all of the issues selling cars in China at the moment apply to everyone.

Was Tesla's previous sales in December limited by demand or by supply capacity?
No way to know but I'm sure you'll speculate away.
 
Oh, im sure Tesla sales will push them well up the table once they get GF3 fully up to speed.
..but my point was why did Cleantechnica choose to compare Production figures in January, when they previously have compared SALES numbers.
And its not just CV 19...january is a “dead “ month for most businesses in china with the public holidays taking out 7-10 days of manufacturing capacity, and many shutting down for annual maintenance.
The most interesting factor is still the confirmation that Tesla apparently has no intention of self manufacturing their own cells in GF3. That is a fundamental change in their business strategy.
 
I thought Tesla only released sales figures quarterly?
Did I miss something recently?

Kind of comparing apples to oranges but if you've only got apples and oranges, well. :evil:

You're right, Jan is generally a low output month, I just think it'll be particularly slow this time around and will take considerable more time to bounce back over previous years.

I'd speculate the LFP was part of the 100% ownership deal.
Sure you can own it 100% but you need to scratch out back in return.
But that's pure speculation at best.
 
boars said:
I thought Tesla only released sales figures quarterly?
Did I miss something recently?

Correct !, ..but Insideevs publish a monthly “estimate” sales figure.
Slow sales recovery ?……remember that rapid decline from July, -70% year on year !... there will have to be a serious change in the market to turn that round.

PS:.. re the CATL/100% ownership deal...
That is unlikely since Tesla already have a supply deal for locally made 21700 cylindrical cells !
 
Here is another version of the CATL deal...
Anticipation about what Tesla will reveal for its next generation of batteries is high; recent news indicated that “advanced talks” with battery maker CATL were progressing and that “Made-in-China” Model 3s may be built with a cobalt-free lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry made by CATL.

It has since been confirmed by CATL that it has indeed signed a volume production agreement as reported by the Chinese Securites Journal (CS), though this report indicates the newly signed agreement ensures only a mass supply of lithium-ion batteries.

Tesla later said on the evening of February 21 (China time) via its Chinese official account on Douyin (known as TikTok in Australia and overseas) that “Cobalt-free does not necessarily mean lithium iron phosphate.”
According to CS, Tesla will instead announce “cobalt-free” batteries at its Battery Day in April,......
https://thedriven.io/2020/02/26/new-tesla-battery-a-combination-of-dry-cell-and-supercapacitor/
 
The grid back-up for wind turbines is burning natural gas in "gas turbine" generators (jet engines), which burn relatively clean, and can be fired up rapidly.

The Tesla power-walls, plus the Tesla grid back up installations (*like in Australia), have been successful beyond Teslas wildest hopes.

They still use lithium (*sodium and sulfur are a few years away), but...the LFP chemistry is cobalt-free, and the more the stationary installations use no cobalt, the more a "reduced cobalt" mobile battery in vehicles will be available until other options become more mature.

LFP has been known in the past for two things. Fire safety, and long life. This was even before the recent research that indicates a specific charge/discharge profile for NCA/NCM can result in a 20-year life-cycle (*and this is before serious lithium recycling efforts are implemented).

I believe the expansion of Tesla engineers using and experimenting with LFP is a VERY good thing.
 
spinningmagnets said:
The grid back-up for wind turbines is burning natural gas in "gas turbine" generators (jet engines), which burn relatively clean, and can be fired up rapidly.
And I would add that more and more often people are turning to fast startup combined cycle natural gas plants, power plants that are far more efficient than straight through gas turbines, and that can be started rapidly (50% power within about eight minutes.)
 
spinningmagnets said:
...... Tesla grid back up installations (*like in Australia), have been successful beyond Teslas wildest hopes.

...I believe the expansion of Tesla engineers using and experimenting with LFP is a VERY good thing.
SM... did you see the comment from Tesla in the previous post regarding Cobalt Free cell development..?
Cobalt-free does not necessarily mean lithium iron phosphate.”

Also, the Tesla “Worlds Biggest Battery”. In S Australia does not actually act as “back up” supply for the grid
Theoretically it “smoothes” the output from the Hornsdale wind farm where it it located,.. to the level of +_ 30MW, for a max of 3 hrs.....which on a grid demand of 3.0GW is not a huge input !
Its real practical use is in Grid FCAS (frequency control auxilliary services) which is now critical to control the fluctuations introduced by intermittent power supply from Wind and Solar farms.
why Tesla ( and the operators) are pleased “beyond their wildest hopes” is how much this FCAS demand has increased as more RE is added and consequently how much the price of FCAS has increased above their forecast.
Also they did not anticipate the way the battery can “Harvest” $$$’s from the electricity market by discharging at times of high pricing (>$100-$500+ $/MWh), and recharging during low price periods (<$100 $/MWh)
The battery earns its operators millions of dollas per month...all skimmed from the Australian consumers, and one reason why S Australia has one of the highest electricity prices in the world !
The battery is a business success at the expense of the local electricity consumers !
In reality , the “back up” for S Australia’s RE dominated grid supply is a pair of HVAC interconnectors to other states which continually support peak SA demands .......from coal fired power stations in Victoria !
 
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