Thanks!
Assuming only one layer deep on the Z axis, that is 2P5S there?spinningmagnets wrote:Here is a quick and crude drawing that I hope will show how to figure out what the bus-plates on the other side of a battery will look like.
Assuming only one layer deep on the Z axis, that is 2P5S there?spinningmagnets wrote:Here is a quick and crude drawing that I hope will show how to figure out what the bus-plates on the other side of a battery will look like.
This is what I've done for smaller packs, but where would you attach the ring terminal in a "high P" pack? In the middle? At the "north" end of the pack for the +'ve and "south" end of the pack for the -'ve? In other words, how to ensure that cabling does not inadvertently load some cells higher than others?
GOOD EYEspinningmagnets wrote: ↑Jan 08 2022 1:04pmIn this case, the washers did exactly what they were designed to do, they prevented a "shoulder short" when the nickel strip melted from high local current. Without the fiber washer, the hot nickel bus-strip would have melted the green insulative sleeve, and caused a short between the negative shoulder and the central positive nipple.
Late last night theeMark wrote: ↑Jan 09 2022 12:44pmThat aside Ron is assuming that the side showing in the above photo is the terminal side, but we don't know that for sure until we see the other side. If the negative and positive termnals are already located on the other side then the left side of the battery in the above photo wouild be the negative terminal connection (on the other side) and the right side the positive terminal connection (on the other side).
The [only] reason for doubling up with both nickel bus bars and copper bus plates is for "Raw Performance" when pulling mucho amps. Otherwise why go to the extra work and expense.
Sure would have liked to see a photo of that positive cable connection. If it is 24S wouldn't you need 24 balance leads from the BMS ?spinningmagnets wrote: ↑Sep 30 2021 9:34pmThe two groups at the top are the end-collector cells for the positive and negative cables to the controller. If you look close, you can see the top right bus has the edge bent over the top, and there is a horizontal copper plate that will somehow have the positive cable for the whole pack connected to it.
MUCH needed being that there seems to be a consensus that soldering on these high performance copper-clad packs pulling mucho amps may be frowned upon by some builders. Does anyone spot-weld their Neg & Pos cable wire connections instead of soldering ? Do you have a closeup photo (spot-weld cable wire bond) on one of your copper-clad DIY build that you've previously posted on this thread ?
The [only] reason for doubling up with both nickel bus bars and copper bus plates is for "Raw Performance" when pulling mucho amps. Otherwise why go to the extra work and expense.
markz wrote: ↑Jan 05 2022 6:19pmWhen I was making home made battery packs I would use 10awg solid core house copper wire for the series and the 14awg solid core house copper wire in the same cable for the parallel. There is a building design question where the Makita's were 5S2P so you would put two in series to make 36V 10S2P, then you either parallel the positive and negative ends to attach another 10S2P to make 10S4P or you parallel each Parallel group. I had 10S8P in 10S2P groups and did it both ways. Parallel each parallel group was not successful for me as it could kill the entire 10S8P pack rather then on block of 10S2P. That was what happened to me and I was not keeping track of balance then.
Design of the battery build needs to look at all factors including the resistance of the parallel and series link, positive and negative leads of the battery pack itself, connectors have resistance, mechanical or solder connections of connectors, cells themselves have internal resistances which all add up. Look at it from an over all view bottom up, top down. Crappy cold solder joints, some generic crappy connector, net enough tab welds on the tab, undersized series/parallel gauge conductor will not be good.
One last comment is to make sure you have good insulation protection to protect the end of the cell from touching the tabs.
Be sure the series connections are the right gauge for the amps running through them, controller rating, if your battery has a bms take note of those specifications. Always keep that in mind when changing the controller because you dont want the controller to ask to much from the battery and you dont want the bms to always kick in. The less stress on the battery the better![]()
Controllers can be cheap, batteries are not cheap even the cheap batteries are not cheap and why would you roll the dice on a cheap, back alley, basement built, unkown, p.o.s. someone bought on ebay, alibaba, aliexpress? Yes there are some reputable builders who sell on there and nothing wrong with buying from a known, reputable entity but it will not be cheap like the eye catching rock bottom blow out sale batteries made with who knows what, counterfeit, faked components. That is why people build their own![]()
In all the copper-clad photos it appears the copper is laid over the nickel bus bars. Are you saying it's better if a 0.15mm nickel bus bar is on top instead of under the copper plate or copper foil ?spinningmagnets wrote: ↑Jan 05 2022 5:12pmThe series connections flow the full amps per-cell, which can be as high as 20A per cell for fairly common cells (30A temporary peak per cell is possible).
If you put nickel on top of the copper, the nickel gets hot enough to melt in a tiny spot, from the spot-welder. The nickel-heat is hort enough to melt a spot of copper to the cell tip.
I was in a rush. This was a one-night build (one of many!) and I finished it in the early morning hours. Rarely captured any pictures, beside them. Stick to the ones I provided and appreciate (or not) my efforts wanting to share my experience & knowledge! Thanks
I started at 0, because the BMS is actually labeled like this (and I do a lot programmingeMark wrote: ↑Jan 09 2022 12:44pmWas he even the builder with his wrong labeling with "0" instead of "1" and "10" instead of "10" & "11"? A true DIY builder would also show the more interesting and revealing side of his battery pack. Not just show-off what he considers it's more glamorous BEAU*T*FULL side as if that's the most important side.
This is false. Having an even cell-count means + and - are exiting on the same side. The opposite applies to an odd cell-count: + on one and - on the opposite side - Check for yourself, there is no other solution. --> Therefore it's possible to determine the opposite side by having only the provided side.
You totally missed, that there are 0.15mm nickel, additional to the 0.15mm copper connecting 4 parallel cells. Sure designwise his layout may be better, but I had to work with what my requirements were: fast solution, robust and range (not power).
Starting at zero is a very common convention in many fields, and especially with BMS where the total count of balance wires is +1 the cell/group count.Tomblarom wrote:I started at 0, because the BMS is actually labeled like this (and I do a lot programming).
Sorry but I dont think you have any chance. If you have the materials then you can try and post results.. Anyway if you try 0.1mm nickel plated steel and 0.1mm copper there is a chance off somewhat decent welds but you have to try to figure that out.
Thank you,spinningmagnets wrote: ↑Jan 23 2022 9:31amThe thinner 0.15 "nickel-plated steel" caps for welding would be better than the thicker material. Thin steel takes fewer amps from the welder to get hot.