Louis R fire with UPP

D

Davidcroatia

100 W
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
180
Hello guys, i just wanna say im very happy with upp batteries, also i respect louis rossmann very much, he is a good electrictian, and something is very wrong here. There is a lot of negativity involving this, what do you think happened here ? Upp representative said it could be because he was using it pararell. https://youtu.be/JCaDz_2YcGQ im no expert and also i dont have any money involving upp, but countless threads make good comments about them, and they build quite nice and affordable batteries. Someone could say a few thing about dealing with upp.
 
had a quick look at the video link, alot of suppliers will give specs which aren't accurate. Its quite common.
If he was running at 40% rated continuous current things should have been fine, but lets say the seller wasn't honest or didn't know the exact figures for continuous or peak rated current ( they are two very different things).
It could well be the cells were actually not rated for the current specified, if that was the case then he may well have been running over the peak rated current without knowing it. Seller should be accountable. If someone else has some cells from same seller, it might be possible to do some testing to see what temperature the cells reach at given current draw.
 
This niche market is **so bad** full of scammers

makes the bar very very low to become a "recommended company".

Make your own, or

find a local maker, or

use a maker **person** recommended by trusted forum members

Otherwise em3ev and Grin, are pretty much it afaic.
 
UPP posted a reply showing their factory and process, and making a few counter-claims to Louis'. I'm not in either corner, just wanted to point out they have some valid criticisms of his video:
[youtube=AdoJkz34qOQ]UPP Response[/youtube]
 
@6:50 those are not the original boxes that panasonic, sony or samsung ship their cells in.

i dont believe for a second they sell their pack on the level with real original cells.

however you slice it, the battery exploded when it should not. i have tried to get cells lilke the PF or 29E (wich are extremely common in bikes) to go nuclear with overcurrenting. i was never able to.
 
Another fire caused by a UPP battery cost one reseller's insurance $50,000. SInce Rechie and UPP are insulated from claims in USA courts the mom-and-pop eBike sellers' insurance took the hit. The battery was sold to a party that then resold on eBay to the third party where the fire severely damaged a home.

There are more. No one here would build with nickel-plated steel connections, but that's what UPP delivers.

Several resellers report higher than normal failure rates. And UPP did squat to support their USA resellers and left resellers to cover warranties.

UPP COULD build a decent battery pack, but that pesky profit margin leaves them to cut corners. Those 52V Hailong packs are a potential nightmare with cells crammed in contrary to good build techniques!
 
Nevermind the below... I just saw your photo on the other thread. No gaps between the cells for cooling, I take it to mean.

I get the nickel plated strips being a no-no, but what do you mean by the cells being "crammed in contrary to good build techniques"?

tomjasz said:
UPP COULD build a decent battery pack, but that pesky profit margin leaves them to cut corners. Those 52V Hailong packs are a potential nightmare with cells crammed in contrary to good build techniques!
Click to expand...
 
Another UPP fire here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117662

I will say that I only trust ebike batteries with a smart BMS, so that I can manually verify cell group voltages periodically.
 
dequinox said:
Nevermind the below... I just saw your photo on the other thread. No gaps between the cells for cooling, I take it to mean.

I get the nickel plated strips being a no-no, but what do you mean by the cells being "crammed in contrary to good build techniques"?

tomjasz said:
UPP COULD build a decent battery pack, but that pesky profit margin leaves them to cut corners. Those 52V Hailong packs are a potential nightmare with cells crammed in contrary to good build techniques!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I think you can see here it looks like there is no electrical insulation between cell groups other than the heat shrink wrappers on each cell. If those adjacent cells rub or melt through the wrappers, there will be a short circuit.
 
agree about having a smart bms,built a 20ah 18s pack with samsung 2500mah cells,was charging it using a 10s charger in series with my homemade lab psu,used it like that for about 6 months with no bms without issues,then brought a proper 18s evergreen charger from ali express,had it on charge outside my back door and went to bed,next thing i was awakened by flashes and what sounded like gunfire,long story short it burned my door the guttering and fried the bike including the tyres cables brake hoses etc,couldnt put it out!,wouldnt concider using anything other than a smart bms now!.
 
Yes. A BMS that is user programable, which usually means bluetooth but I also have a USB cable and Windows program for my JBD smart BMS's. Still won't save someone from poor construction techniques, and I will not rely on just the cell heat shrink wrapping to prevent shorts between each series group in the pack. In Cowardlyduck's latest construction video here, he mentions using Kapton tape between each series group as an added layer of protection. I use plastic cell holders or trays. I've also been using self resetting PTC fuses between the pack and each balance wire on my last two builds. The positive and negative terminals I'm still experimenting with which way I like best.

AL9nZEV8kQE349I0IpQXOgSw_90s5YNrp57JA4lJjlCgRB-FeECe7IDn278d4tPqvN5gzacRw7ftHNzJJT-KGTm3D9-HCYwWDIndtUo2Cz26PtqgY4JjRVUJr_Z1yBEVNUCFZlC60o16ANdLO1mCmv5Enz5V=w3459-h1946-no
 
72V UPP battery most likely with nickel-coated steel cell level connections and a cheap BMS. What could go wrong? Add an aftermarket controller for the final nail.
 
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