getting cells up to 140f

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how much degradation would happen in ion or iron cells that maybe touch this temp for a couple minutes? i imagine it's not good. id like to sink cells in https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Material-Guide:polymorph-Plastic--a-thermal-/ this seemingly lowest temperature meltable plastic.

i think i could also cool the cells in advance of casting this plastic around them and have a feeling this will be necessary to not damage the cells too much
 
Please clarify what you specifically are thinking of doing and why.

If you mean that the cells would get themselves up to that temp through internal chemical process resulting from high-C operations

Yes that will drastically shorten lifespan, to the point most reasonable people would call the use case "abusive" and the result "damage".

As to potting in that plastic, why??

Are you thinking the phase state change - melting and solidifying over and over again - will help absorb that internally generated heat?

______
However, if you intend to get the cells to that high temp point from **external** heat sources, then that will be **much** less damaging,

in fact, you would be greatly reducing the longevity-shortening impact of high C-rate usage, certainly fast charging at say over 2-3C.

Maybe high discharge rates too, you will certainly be lowering resistance to enable higher peak power output, but I suspect the longevity-shortening impact may not be as ameliorated as with the charging side.

But then the use of that plastic as potting compound makes no sense (to me, yet?)
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
how much degradation would happen in ion or iron cells that maybe touch this temp for a couple minutes?

Do you know the "BTU", friend?

A British thermal unit is a measure of heat. Described as the amount of heat needed to raise one pound of water at maximum density (1/1) through one degree (1) Fahrenheit, equivalent to 1.055 × 103 joules.

A watt is also equivalent to 3.4121 British thermal units per hour. Cells create heat through the resistance.... this heat can be virtually calculated and empirically measured with a calorimeter. Resistance can be measured. Manipulated. Designed around.

If you do not create enough heat ( in watts, or BTU,) you will never reach that temp. Given the heat capacity of the environment, the conduction, convection, and radiation. A BTu is a tiny bit of heat. Not many BTU created through the resistance of the typical 18650 circuit available through the formula V=IR.

Unless the mass is large enough, per amp hour volume, at the specified Wh/Kg density. A cell is designed to dissipate a heat load ( in BTU) whitin its design.. to be able to shed that heat and continue current providing. At typical room temp (59*F).

How do you make a cell 140*?

Place it in a 140* environment. Or place it in some other environment that cannot shed its heat capacity... such as in a mass of cells, not only by itself. The ability for the mass to convect, conduct, and radiate is compromised and heat builds for it cannot be dissipated to the environment ( lack of heat, ie cold, ie no thermal activity).

This mass is measured in Ah, ( wh/Kg, a density)) and W (watts of heat, AKA.... BTU of heat ).

W/Ah.
 
DogDipstick said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
how much degradation would happen in ion or iron cells that maybe touch this temp for a couple minutes?

Do you know the "BTU", friend?

A British thermal unit is a measure of heat. Described as the amount of heat needed to raise one pound of water at maximum density (1/1) through one degree (1) Fahrenheit, equivalent to 1.055 × 103 joules.

A watt is also equivalent to 3.4121 British thermal units per hour. Cells create heat through the resistance.... this heat can be virtually calculated and empirically measured with a calorimeter. Resistance can be measured. Manipulated. Designed around.

If you do not create enough heat ( in watts, or BTU,) you will never reach that temp. Given the heat capacity of the environment, the conduction, convection, and radiation. A BTu is a tiny bit of heat. Not many BTU created through the resistance of the typical 18650 circuit available through the formula V=IR.

Unless the mass is large enough, per amp hour volume, at the specified Wh/Kg density. A cell is designed to dissipate a heat load ( in BTU) whitin its design.. to be able to shed that heat and continue current providing. At typical room temp (59*F).

How do you make a cell 140*?

Place it in a 140* environment. Or place it in some other environment that cannot shed its heat capacity... such as in a mass of cells, not only by itself. The ability for the mass to convect, conduct, and radiate is compromised and heat builds for it cannot be dissipated to the environment ( lack of heat, ie cold, ie no thermal activity).

This mass is measured in Ah, ( wh/Kg, a density)) and W (watts of heat, AKA.... BTU of heat ).

W/Ah.
I could do a simple trial heating a cell to 140f for a min and then test it’s resistance and capacity. Wondering if I’d be missing anything or I guess resistance and capacity will tell all about the cell’s health.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
I could do a simple trial heating a cell to 140f for a min and then test it’s resistance and capacity. Wondering if I’d be missing anything or I guess resistance and capacity will tell all about the cell’s health.


Yeah dont. a typical 18650 does not have aenough energy to really create such great hazard, but what you approach is called "Thermal Runnaway"... the immediate destruction of the cell in a chemical heat proliferation event. And the destruction of the cell.

You cannot tell much about any cell from a simple capacity and IR, Unless, you do it 200-1000times on the same cell, in a controlled environment, and with a baseline to compare against. This would be the scientific ways.

If you heat a cell up you may just see a drop in resistance and the current might be greater during a constant current discharge. Capacity shoudl be near rated, if not a bad cell. It is when you put a whole lot of cells together, (2-600) and use them hard, in an ebike, and the mass creates detriment to the pack, insulation.

NASA has studied all these effects scientifically, so you do not have to risk your property.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42373

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=103805
 
I can’t find an example of nasa getting the cell to 140f in your link. 140f isn’t going to send a cell into thermal runaway.

If I do an IR or capacity test before and after exposing it to the heat I’ll know if the cell has degraded enough to notice. I don’t need safety advice and know the danger of a venting cell.
 
140F would be no problem for most batteries as long as you don't keep them that hot for weeks at a time. It easily gets that hot just sitting in the sun on a hot day. Your particular batteries should have a storage temperature specification you can look up on a datasheet.
 
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