frosted.coot.scoot's Bird2 Scooter Question Thread

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Mar 31, 2022
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Can someone please help me to kniow where i wire the charging port wires to a 350w 36 volt mntt brushless motor controller.
 
frosted.coot.scoot said:
Can someone please help me to kniow where i wire the charging port wires to a 350w 36 volt mntt brushless motor controller.

The controller itself doesn't (normally) connect to your charging port. Only the battery and the charger normally connect to that.

You'll need to supply good clear pictures of your setup, including the internal wiring, clearly enough to trace the wiring out from one place to another, for us to help you figure this out.

If you are replacing the controller, you'll need to show the original one and it's wiring, clearly enough to trace the wiring out from one place to another, and then the new controller along with the wiring diagram from the place it was purchased or it's manufacturer.

If we can't see your wiring, you'll have to draw out your own wiring diagram first, and post that, for us to help you determine connections.
 
I recently picked up a decommisioned bird 2 scooter and am in the porocess of conversion. I went to measure the voltage on the output on the XT60 that connects to the controller main powersupply and I noticed that the voltage immediately began dropping. It was steadily going lower and lower. Eventually thge process halted and there of course was zero measureable voltage there. Is this normal? Has anyone else observed this? How do I get the battery to start outputting again?
 
frosted.coot.scoot said:
I recently picked up a decommisioned bird 2 scooter and am in the porocess of conversion. I went to measure the voltage on the output on the XT60 that connects to the controller main powersupply and I noticed that the voltage immediately began dropping. It was steadily going lower and lower. Eventually thge process halted and there of course was zero measureable voltage there. Is this normal? Has anyone else observed this? How do I get the battery to start outputting again?
The general assumption when buying a used ebike is that the battery iw worth zero, so you go in with an expectation of the cost to replace/rebuild it when considering the asking price.
How long was it sitting unused?
 
I recently wired a MNTT 36/48V brushless motor controller on a bird 2 scooter I bought at Auction. After wiring the throttle up, I went to test the throttle and found that when I depress the throttle the motor starts turning the wheel but there is no variability. The motor also continues to run even if I let off the throttle. If I depress the throttle again, the Motor stops turning. I fel im close to the correct wiring here. I did try to stop the motor using one of the controller features that requires you to short out the leads of the anti theft wire bundle. The motor did stop as expected, but again started running once the bridge connection here was terminated.

Can anyone offer any insight or tips here?

Thank you so much and please if there is something I can take a pic of to help here please let me know.
 
I recently wired a MNTT 36/48V brushless motor controller on a bird 2 scooter I bought at Auction. After wiring the throttle up, I went to test the throttle and found that when I depress the throttle the motor starts turning the wheel but there is no variability. The motor also continues to run even if I let off the throttle. If I depress the throttle again, the Motor stops turning. I fel im close to the correct wiring here. I did try to stop the motor using one of the controller features that requires you to short out the leads of the anti theft wire bundle. The motor did stop as expected, but again started running once the bridge connection here was terminated.

Can anyone offer any insight or tips here?

Thank you so much and please if there is something I can take a pic of to help here please let me know.
 
Before I waste time with a reply, I would ask that you reply to this thread, since so far you haven't done so to your other two question threads people were trying to help you with, making it difficult, if not pointless, for us to try to help you.


Note: All of the OP's threads have been merged into this single thread, since the OP does not return to answer questions or provide further information when requested, and makes multiple threads for the same question as well. All future threads about this project will also be merged into this thread, to keep all info that is available about it in one place for those that wish to try to help the OP even if the OP doesn't answer.
 
I sincerely apologize for my gross lack of proper forum etiquette. I have never used a forum or anything similar before. I have certain challenges to learning in that a perfunctory read through of rules, regulations, and guides do nothing for me. I lack the ability to spatially reason, and as such, believe it or not, am unable to advance my understanding of anything just by reading alone. I must see something on paper, virtual formats, or my computer display to learn anything.

I am a very busy person and do not get ot use my pc everyday so things will be left for days at a time with no apparent attention paid to anything that I post. I assure you that I value the information submitted and respect the time it took to assemble the responses.

So can someone please give me an exxample of a properly formatted question and subsequent replies to such questions. I am here to learn because I do not have much expereince with any of this, but I am willing to learn and will do so...just at a slower pace that of most other persons.

Thank you.

Chris Gonzales.
 
It's ok. The main thing you really need to do to help us help you is to reply to those helping you with requested information; without that we won't be able to do much. :)

I would start with the previously posted questions above, if they are still relevant to things you need to know / fix.

I recommend keeping everything about this particular project in this thread, so that you won't have to re-answer questions you've already answered, or repost information already posted.

Regarding the latest question:
From the sound of it, the controller may not support a throttle. Some don't.

There are thousands of different controllers out there, each with it's own way of wiring things (though there are common elements between them, names, wire colors, and even features, etc., may be different from any particular one to any other).

Do you have either a link to the webpage this particular one was purchased from (because it may have info on it's features and wiring), or can you take pictures of any instruction sheets that came with it (they usually don't, but always worth asking), along with the actual controller itself and it's wiring and connectors? Pictures of the throttle and it's wiring / connector may also help; a link to it's purchase page may be useful as well.

There are also at least two different kinds of throttles; hall and potentiometer, which work differently and are not directly interchangeable--if your controller requires one but you have the other, it may not respond as expected.

There may be other questions/etc once that info is available to us, but it's a start.
 
My apologies for the tone of my last post. I often get engrossed in what im so anxious to learn about that I lose contact with my sensabilities. Moving forward. Indeed I do have a link for the controller I purchased. Here it is.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08J7Y9QQ8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I I have found out a few things relating to the first post or two that I made concerning the charging port and battery output voltage. I now know how and where to connect to the charging port of the scooter. I also got the battery to start outputting its correct voltage by performing a bypass on the BMS as demonstrated ina video I found that directly deals with the Bird 2 scooter. After soldering a bridge between B+ and P+,

I got the correct output voltage frm the battery pack. SO those two posts are now answered as I see it.

I am now moving on to the issue that I am having which is that I am suppose to have a variable throttle, but after wiring the throttle to the controller I have some unexpected results. I thought the throttle was supposed to be the potentiometer type where the amount of throttle signal given to the motor is directly proportional to the amount of downward pressure your thumb places on the throttle lever. What I experience here is that the motor starts turning when I first depress the throttle lever to the full downward position. The wheel starts rotating at full throttle and even continues if the throttle lever is let to come back to its starting position. The motor will stay engaged at maximum until the throttle lever is once again depressed to the full throttle position.

There is not really any support info from Amazon where I bought the controller. There is no instructions that come with the controller. Here are a few pics of the controller and the wiring and config that I have already performed...

Here is the connector where I soldered the Motor Wires and HALL wires to...motor and hall plug.png

And here is a pic of the throttle wires and headlight wires that I soldered to the cponnectors you see here...throttle and headlight.png

Hopefully this helps shed some light on my problem...
 

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frosted.coot.scoot said:
Indeed I do have a link for the controller I purchased. Here it is.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08J7Y9QQ8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
<snip>

There is not really any support info from Amazon where I bought the controller. There is no instructions that come with the controller.
Based on this picture
51REkOK-rsL._AC_SL1000_[1].jpg
It must have a throttle input, since it specifies a throttle voltage range. The usual connector for this will have red for 5v, black for ground, and green for throttle signal, whcih match one of the connectors on this controller.

I see a pair of white wires with matching connectors; these are the self-learn. If you haven't already used that function, you will want to do so to make sure the phase/hall combination is correct for the motor so it operates correctly. (this won't have anything to do with the throttle behavior you get, however). If you've already done this, skip to the next section.

The other wiring I see looks typical of controllers of this type, so we can work that out if it is needed for other functions.


I I have found out a few things relating to the first post or two that I made concerning the charging port and battery output voltage. I now know how and where to connect to the charging port of the scooter. I also got the battery to start outputting its correct voltage by performing a bypass on the BMS as demonstrated ina video I found that directly deals with the Bird 2 scooter. After soldering a bridge between B+ and P+,

I got the correct output voltage frm the battery pack. SO those two posts are now answered as I see it.

Interesting that it has a B+ / P+; typically a BMS does not have any + connections other than the B+ that is the most positive wire of the balance connector (not typically marked as such). Usually it requires bypassing from B- to P- (and C- if there is a separate charging port) to get around a nonworking BMS. So this one is a nontypical design.


If you have to bypass the BMS to get voltage out, it usually means that one of the cell groups has a problem, and so the BMS has shutdown to prevent further damage to them that could lead to a fire. But since this is a custom BMS, it could just be a blown internal fuse on the BMS (other side of the board from the picture, most likely, if so). Or because these are rental scooters, it could be that this BMS has an extra cable that goes to the original controller or display that requires communication between them to enable it's output, or extra electronics in it that wirelessly communicate with something (phone, display, charging station, etc) to enable it.

In the latter case you'd just need to replace the BMS to protect the cells during use and charge. The instructions on the Bird website lead to this possibility:
To start your ride, scan the Bird’s QR code with your app.
because *something* on the scooter must have a wireless connection to the phone to talk to the app for this to work to turn it on and off. The BMS is a logical enough place for this to be, since it would turn all power on and off.


In the former cases you'd want to test things to make sure there isn't a problem. If you don't know which is the case, then testing is a good idea for future safety.

What are the individual cell group voltages, measured at the BMS balance connector at the BMS board itself, starting at the most negative up to the most positive?

That will tell you what the BMS sees, which helps you find the problem. If the voltages there are all correct, the BMS itself is probably just defective, and needs to be replaced.

If the voltages are not correct, then measure them at the cells themselves, which will tell you if the cells are the problem, or the balance wires.

If a cell is the problem, then depending on it's voltage, it may be safe to manually recharge, or you may need to replace it to prevent future risk of catastrophic failure.



I am now moving on to the issue that I am having which is that I am suppose to have a variable throttle, but after wiring the throttle to the controller I have some unexpected results. I thought the throttle was supposed to be the potentiometer type where the amount of throttle signal given to the motor is directly proportional to the amount of downward pressure your thumb places on the throttle lever. What I experience here is that the motor starts turning when I first depress the throttle lever to the full downward position. The wheel starts rotating at full throttle and even continues if the throttle lever is let to come back to its starting position. The motor will stay engaged at maximum until the throttle lever is once again depressed to the full throttle position.
I can't think of anything on a normal controller and throttle that would cause this to work that way, regardless of wiring correctly or not, etc.

But if the throttle itself is not a variable-voltage output, and is instead functioning as a toggle switch inside, it would. The instructions on the Bird website lead to this possibility:
Hit the throttle on the right to go and pull the brakes to slow.

If you measure the voltage at the throttle signal, from the signal wire to ground or battery negative, what does it read during the whole travel of the throttle?

If it only reads two set voltages, and not variable, you'll need to replace the throttle with a different one, such as one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=scooter+throttle&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
I've used this specific type
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Throttle-Control-Electric-Scooters/dp/B07KK145CK/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=scooter+throttle&qid=1650824703&sr=8-9
from Grin Tech; it's decent enough as responsiveness goes, if you like thumb throttles.

If you want a lever throttle, I couldn't find one in a few minutes' search. A cable-brake lever can be used for one, though, by using a cable-operated-throttle body like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954909008.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.4f7f1802jVsCNo
pulled by the cable from the lever (which can be basically any brake lever that fits on your handlebar other than the one you already have for your brake, since you need that one ;) ).

Note that if the brake lever doesn't pull the full rotation of the throttle, it won't give you full power/speed, only that up to the point the rotation stops. You can adjust the cable tension on the lever so that just a touch on the lever starts the motor moving, and that gives the best response range, but it still has to be adjusted so the motor is never moving unless you are actually pulling it. ;)

I use that exact throttle unit for my SB Cruiser trike, in two places (one pulled by a brake lever for variable regen braking on a controller capable of that, and one pulled by an ATV thumb lever for throttle control on the times I need a throttle, since SBC is controlled via pedals most of the time).



Since you do get response from the system, you probably already ahve the wiring correct, but just in case:

The throttle wiring color for the old controller (black, red, blue) is not typical, but that may not mean anything. If it uses a normal hall throttle, then the one that is on the scooter should still work wtih your new controller. If the throttle itself has the same wire colors, my first guess would be red positive, black ground, and blue signal, but this is not necessarily the case.

If you can still power on the old controller, you can measure that connector for where it's 5v wire is, and ground you can verify by measuring continuity or ohms from each wire to the battery negative wire of the old controller while the controller is not connected to anything else. The signal is then the remaining wire.
 
Well it seems as though it was only a simple wiring misake that was causing my problems. I had used the wrong combination of wires on my throttle circuit. After substituting the yellow wire from the throttle instead of the blue wire that I had previously used, my throttle was fully functional.

I went ahead and used the low brake wires coming from the controller as a kill switch and this too was operating as expected. I now have a fully operational Bird 2 E-Scooter. I still have yet to install a couple of low level improvements susch as a push button switch that turns the headlight off and on instead of it being relegated to an always on.

I wanted to note that the BMS bypass seems to be doing just fine. The scooter performed as expected and I could not determine that a fault existed. This was a point of thought as a possibilty from a contributor to this thread,

I thank you all for your time and consideration in this matter, and look forward to posing more questions to this forum.
 
SO I finally got the charger in from Amazon. Its an 84W 42V Charger and I started charging my first battery pack. After 7 hours however I am only getting like 6.23 Volts across the out put XT60. What could cause this to occur? I have followed a build video with great attention and my battery is behaving just like the one on the video except for the charging part...oh i almost forgot...one major difference is that my charger does not evert display a red light whern charging.

LMK if anyone has any directions to go with this.

Thank you

Frost
 
frosted.coot.scoot said:
SO I finally got the charger in from Amazon. Its an 84W 42V Charger and I started charging my first battery pack. After 7 hours however I am only getting like 6.23 Volts across the out put XT60.
What did it discharge to before you began charging it?

If it was discharged too far, the cells could be damaged and unable to charge.

Or they could just have been discharged far enough for the BMS to shutdown the charger input to prevent damage to the cells that could cause a fire by recharging them after the overdischarge.

What voltage are the cell groups each at? (measuring across each cell or group of cells, from the cell + to the cell -)

If the BMS bypass that was done to make it work without the original scooter prevents the
BMS from cutting off the output to protect the pack against overdischarge, these are possibilities.

It may also be possible for the bypass to be doing something that prevents the charge circuitry from enabling itself, preventing charge.

If the charger itself is defective or damaged, it may not be able to charge the pack. What voltage does the charger read when it is not connected to the pack's charge input? What does it read when it *is* connected?
 
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